Usefull and essential off road kit to carry

[Deleted Member S]

Hummingbird i'll have to ask you this one i'm affrade when you've done recoveries in your mav did you use the front tow hook :? & at the back you have the same type of tow bar as me if you use it where the best place to hook up :?
Sorry for asking so much HB It's just with what has been said in this thread & the fact you almost had to put me out of that trench when I was out with you, it's got me wondering.

Cheers Neil :smile:

 

[Terranosaurus]

Yes I use the hook at the front but I want another one for the other side so I can use a bridle properly.

At the back I use the tie down eyes (I usually don't have the tow bar on when going out). Whilst these are originally as tie downs they are part of th main tow bar mounts which are made of about 10mm steel plate and are each attached by 3 M12s (might even be M14s) in shear. More than up to it especially if used with a bridle.

If I had the tow bar on I'd drop the strap round the main steel frame of the support rather than the ball (which is cast iron) unless just a light tow when I'd probably use the ball.

 

[jace]

i just drop a strap over towbar on mine to drag stuff outve way round yards etc never gave thought for towbar being under strain!

 

[andrewk]

I agree about the tow ball as they are only rated for a maximum pull of 3.5 tonnes i beleive?

The towball rating is to pull a 3.5 ton trailer. The breaking strain will be 3 or 4 times that. Towballs are fixed with two M16 bolts and towbars with 6 M10 bolts. Many/most recovery hooks are only fixed using two M10 bolts.

It is a proper can of worms this load capacity and breaking strain stuff!

Yes it is - and it's vital that we don't confuse the two.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[andrewk]

if a 5 tonne rope is not strong enough but attatched to a 2.8 tonne towbar? you see my point,

No, I don't. The towbar rating is to tow a 2.8 ton load. It will have a safety factor of at least 4 built into that - so is not likely to break at less than 10 tons. The 5 ton rope is rated at 5 tons *breaking strain* which is no more than 1.5 ton SWL.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[andrewk]

At the back I use the tie down eyes (I usually don't have the tow bar on when going out

I've just discovered this article, which looks very useful (I think it may be the same one that was linked to the Difflock site). I'm just reading it now and haven't got that far. I cannot see anything (yet?) about not using a towball for recovery but it very definitely says that you shouldn't use a lashing eye.

It looks like a MUST READ. http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/ropes 1a.htm

P.S. There's a whole ruck of relevant articles here: http://www.dborc.co.uk/goodwinch/off road with db.htm

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Terranosaurus]

I know what you're saying about lashing eyes and agree whole heartedly but if you take a look at the eyes at the rear of a Mav/T2 they aren't the usual 3mm pressed things, they are simply holes in the 10mm plates that form the mounts for the towbar. as I put above they are attached by 3 hefty bolts in shear. If I was going to design some from scratch they are basically what I would do except I would probably try to get the bolts in double shear.

I've just quckly read the relevant bit of that article and he refers to landy tie downs, thinner steel and only one bolt.


Just a note the infamous Jate Rings that everyone speaks so fondly of are also tie downs, used by the military when air freighting landies around, yet everyone thinks they're great. spindly bit of bar welded to two bits of plate attached by one bolt - I'll stick with what Nissan saw firt to provide us with, proper engineering.

 

[andrewk]

Just a note the infamous Jate Rings that everyone speaks so fondly of are also tie downs, used by the military when air freighting landies around, yet everyone thinks they're great. spindly bit of bar welded to two bits of plate attached by one bolt - I'll stick with what Nissan saw firt to provide us with, proper engineering.

Funny you should say that - I've often thought that the fixing bolt on Jate rings look a tad flimsy.

I'll have a look at the lashing eyes on a Terrano/Mav next time I see one. The lashing eyes on the Patrol are pretty thick stuff too. They also have a solid looking front recovery hook and rear recovery eye mounted directly on the rear chassis crossmember through a hole in the bumper using 4 M10 bolts - so, the Patrol is pretty well kitted out as standard.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[robobone]

my idea of recovery is make sure you are in camerman group :lol: :lol: :lol:
i have basic tow strap and shackels for light recovery plus the usual spade thrown in i quickley chicken out of stuff which looks to difficult

thats the beauty of going with the club there is normally someone more expereince than your self for advice and even help(just like the blown tyre last time which can be found on one of the newsletters)

 

[Guest]

stuff this for a game of soldiers, shovels, winches, waffle baords rocks, i have had enough 4x4's im going to get a helicopter :wink: :lol:

Just fit this to the TII and watch it go, may need a differnat prop though: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLLS-ROYCE-J...oryZ2983QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[andrewk]

stuff this for a game of soldiers, shovels, winches, waffle baords rocks, i have had enough 4x4's im going to get a helicopter :wink: :lol:

Just fit this to the TII and watch it go, may need a differnat prop though: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ROLLS-ROYCE-J...oryZ2983QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

It runs on diesel!!!! Now, if we could fit some wheels on that - and find a way of attaching it to a stuck Terrano. Light the blue touchpaper and stand well back.

I like it!!

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Guest]

Also re shackles & 50mm towballs, I was under the impression that securing a shackle around a towball was a strict no-no, becuase the ball will break off, and the only way that the ARC allow 50mm towballs as a recovery point is when they are mounted on a horizontal flat surface that means the end of the tow strap is secure over the ball - I'll try & post a link if I find a picture. That is one reason why I got a chunk of metal made to replace the swan neck on my brink towbar for off roading, allowing a shackle to be put in its place instead.

Correct on that JM, if you look at the back of my disco it has no tow bar fitted, just eyes bolted direct to chassis to take shacles, (I use a bridle to spread load) Same on front too.

For a towbar I'm going to fit this (when funds available) http://www.discoparts.com/asp/d-no.asp?ProductID=326&Process=1&CatID=26&SubCatID=58 to attend weekend meets, but with this in place for off road http://www.discoparts.com/asp/d-no.asp?ProductID=322&Process=1&CatID=25&SubCatID=62

 

[jace]

needs fitting in back robin reliant van imagine that from lights two black stripes and brown one in yer undies lol

 

[jace]

bet one lads on here could make that shackle adapter piece

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

if a 5 tonne rope is not strong enough but attatched to a 2.8 tonne towbar? you see my point,

No, I don't. The towbar rating is to tow a 2.8 ton load. It will have a safety factor of at least 4 built into that - so is not likely to break at less than 10 tons. The 5 ton rope is rated at 5 tons *breaking strain* which is no more than 1.5 ton SWL.

Cheers
Andrew

you are assuming we were talking about 5 tonne reaking strain and not swl wich is confusing the issue as i have straps clearly marked with both.

the tow ball argument is spurious as a the end of the day it is attatched to the tow bar and the whole thing is only as strong as its weakest link, and the tow bar was designed for towing a trailer and nothing more.

I think it is important to bear this in mind when offering and taking advice as at the end of the day you are responsible for you own safety, in the event of an accident, its no good saying so and so told me it would be ok!!

but at the end of the day it is still a matter of good judgment and the best equipment you can afford, AND most importantly to realise that recovery is a potentialy dangerous buisness and try to do a decent risk assement and keep un needed people OUT OF THE WAY!

 

[andrewk]

you are assuming we were talking about 5 tonne reaking strain and not swl

Yep, coz the tow ropes and straps sold on Ebay (and usually elsewhere) have the breaking strain advertised. I think it's only lifting slings that have a SWL.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Guest]

I think it is important to bear in mind when offering and taking advice you are responsible for you own safety, in the event of an accident, its no good saying so and so told me it would be ok!!

It is still a matter of good judgment and the best equipment you can afford, AND most importantly to realise that recovery is a potentialy dangerous buisness and keep UN NEEDED PEOPLE OUT OF THE WAY

Wise words from our friend Plank

 

[JonathanM]

The two rear eyes mounted to the chassis rails on the rear are what Nissan advise for recovery, at the front they advise the use of the "hook" (originally mounted on just the right chassis rail on mine as standard) not the small tie down eye that is sometime fitted on the opposite side.

As the towbar mounts with 8.8 bolts to the same rear revovery eyes, and the "dynamic" loading of a towbar goes well beyond the rated 2.8tonnes, then I don't have any concerns about using the standard towbar as a recovery point.

The point re shackles and the towball isn't so much the rating of the ball, but how a shackle applies the force to the towball, and they can fail when used in this manner.

Because the front recovery point only pulls off one side of the chassis, I fitted another recovery hook at the front, allowing a bridle to be run between the 2 points. Spreads the load evenly between the 2 chassis rails. It was a £15 buy from e-bay, and the holes are there as standard.

 

[andrewk]

The two rear eyes mounted to the chassis rails on the rear are what Nissan advise for recovery

On the Mav/Terrano, maybe. On the Patrol, Nissan advise that you use the humungous recovery loop that they provided specifically for the purpose. It is bolted directly to the rear chassis crossmember (accessed via a rectangular cut-out in the rear bumper). It worked fine last Saturday :smile:

Cheers
Andrew

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

you are assuming we were talking about 5 tonne reaking strain and not swl

Yep, coz the tow ropes and straps sold on Ebay (and usually elsewhere) have the breaking strain advertised. I think it's only lifting slings that have a SWL.

Cheers
Andrew

In perspective, I use the tow bar for recovery! and trust to the original towing point on the front but all the other stuff about dynamic loading and 10 tonnes breaking strain and all the straps on ebay etc . (I havent checked all the listings I must admit) is all speculation or opinion, if it aint stamped or marked as tested to certain load then don't assume it is just because so & so said so!

I think a certain elemet of experience and understanding of how materials work under load can allow good judgment in these things, but how we can say a tow bar, meant to pull along a trailer, bar take a load of 10 tons i really dont understand!

don't get me wrong, i am not intending to sound rude, All of the above postings offer good advice, particularly CM i think on checking the general condition of the chassis rails and recovery points and tow bars for loose bolts damage corrosion etc. and of course damping the rope strap etc. with blankets, or tarps or as i often do the mats out of the car or spare straps and ropes to minimise the wiplash if anything breaks and of course the condition of your straps or ropes.

So good ropes or straps, good recovery points and good judgment, the 3 essentials of recovery? what do you think?

Another piece of essential kit for off roading no one has mentioned -- a 4x4 :lol: