FT’s Patrol Project

[Flying Torquewrench]

Rick, I will measure tomorrow. I didn’t measure before fitting the new rings. At the moment they are to thick and won’t sit all the way at the bottom of the grove. As a result you can’t move them along in the grove either to stagger the gaps in the rings. This is really inly applicable to the top ring. The 2nd and oil ring are absolutely fine.

Finding a new set of rings for a Y61 is challenging. However I can find enough for the Y60 RD28. As the base engine is the same I am not expecting any differences in piston rings between a Y60 and Y61.

I am picking up my cylinder head tomorrow and will ask the guy’s there. They probably know somewhere where they just sell the piston rings based on dimensions.

Also sent the Turbo off for an overhaul. £190 + vat if it only needs a service, up to £350 + vat if it needs a major component repair/replacement. Should be gone for about a week.

 

[solarman216]

It will be very interesting to see the ring gap numbers old and new, it is not unknown for a ring to not go into the bore till it has seen a file on the ends, but if your old top ring gaps within tolerance, then no reason not to re use it, but it is imperative to gap new rings before fitting to the pistons, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

I measured the thickness of the new and old rings and the new ring is thicker then the old ring. Didn’t write it down so need to have a look tomorrow.

The new ring is also wider then the old ring. The old ring was 3.07mm wide and the new ring 3.15mm wide. As you say they need to be gapped properly. But even without gapping it, it is clear that the new ring is not the correct size.

The big ends and the crankshaft.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

The inside of the oil sump.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Bad news I am afraid. The cylinder bore is worn out and needs relining.

Measurements as follows:
Top ring (old ring): side clearance 0.087mm. (Limit 0.060-0.093)
end gap 0.432mm (limit 0.20-0.28mm)

Top ring (new): side clearance 0.000mm as ring doesn’t fit in groove.
end gap 0.406mm (limit 0.20-0.28mm)

Haven’t measured the 2nd ring as the top is well out of limits.

Out of the Nissan book;
“If out of specification, replace piston ring. If gap still exceeds maximum limit with new ring, rebore cylinder and use oversized piston and piston rings.”

The RD28 uses sleeves and these can be changed. However nowhere can I find how to change them. The guy’s doing my glow plugs also do onsite liner fitting so I will ask them how much it would cost to come out and fit new liners.

 

[Banshee]

Bad news I am afraid. The cylinder bore is worn out and needs relining.

Measurements as follows:
Top ring (old ring): side clearance 0.087mm. (Limit 0.060-0.093)
end gap 0.432mm (limit 0.20-0.28mm)

Top ring (new): side clearance 0.000mm as ring doesn’t fit in groove.
end gap 0.406mm (limit 0.20-0.28mm)

Haven’t measured the 2nd ring as the top is well out of limits.

Out of the Nissan book;
“If out of specification, replace piston ring. If gap still exceeds maximum limit with new ring, rebore cylinder and use oversized piston and piston rings.”

The RD28 uses sleeves and these can be changed. However nowhere can I find how to change them. The guy’s doing my glow plugs also do onsite liner fitting so I will ask them how much it would cost to come out and fit new liners.

That's it for me I'm afraid. I'm out.

The RD28 engines sound like absolute tat!!!!

I'm looking for alternatives.......

Sent from my moto g 5G plus using Tapatalk

 

[solarman216]

Bad for an engine of that mileage to be so worn, you must have a large wear lip at the top of the bore, what are the big ends like? Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

In all fairness Zac, it doesn’t surprise me. Don’t forget that the engine is 23 years old! While it has only driven 127k miles I have a feeling that the engine has done a lot more hours idling.

The measurement above was just on cylinder #6, I still need to measure the other ones. Looking at the compression test figures, cylinder #5 & #6 had much better compression with a little bit of extra oil through the top. It may be that the rest is within limits (doubt it ) and if it is a liner replacement then only #5 & #6 need to be done. Obviously if it needs reboring and oversize pistons than they all need to be done.

Turbo should have been picked up today but I have delayed that whilst looking at the options available. No need having a turbo overhauled if I scrap the car.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Bad for an engine of that mileage to be so worn, you must have a large wear lip at the top of the bore, what are the big ends like? Rick

Rick, that is the interesting bit. There is no lip at all! All the cylinders are nice and smooth.

 

[solarman216]

I am confused, some thing is not adding up, do you have access to an internal micrometer in order to measure the bores? I doubt your new rings are correct for your engine so pointless using them for a reference, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

I share your confusion! An internal micrometer is on order. :thumb2

At least I have found out how to resleeve the engine if required. It is a diy job, just takes some patience. Sleeves are £80 for 6 so all in all not as bad as I first thought.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Phoned the engine shop today to get an update on my cylinder head. They warmed the head up before trying to remove the glow plugs. 2 came out easily, 1 needed a bit persuasion and 3 sheared off. They are now drilling these out which takes a bit longer as expected. As Banshee found out with his cylinder head, the glow plugs are a pain to drill out. Even the engine shop admitted that they are struggling as the Patrol glow plugs have a non standard build to them.

Whilst I had them on the phone I asked them about the installation of sleeves in the engine. They charge £47.50 (an hours labour) per cylinder and if it needs reaming/boring then it is another £40 on top. In total £525 excluding the sleeves.

 

[solarman216]

Yes they are ceramic, I never had any problem with my plugs, but I do them up finger tight plus one finger on a 100mm tee bar, they do not need to be as tight as most do them up, also copper slip all over, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Looking at the torque settings for the glow plugs then they should be a little bit more as finger tight. As you already do Rick. I have the truck since late 2009 and the glow plugs have never been changed. And I don’t think they were changed before I bought the truck either. Potentially they are 23 years old.

New ones are only £6 each which was a welcome surprise.

Spent my evening trying to find information about the cylinder liners on the web but very little info regarding the RD28T. Supposedly it has 5mm thick liners which can be bored. Considering my options, either replace the liners completely or have the current ones bored and use an oversize piston instead.

 

[solarman216]

Did you have two bus bars on your glow plugs with two wires? Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

No, only one bus bar and one wire.

 

[solarman216]

OK that explains why your plugs are cheap, mine originally had three normal plugs and 3 with two connections each with a complicated switching system that halved the voltage through all six after the initial warm up, needless to say as they were ceramic I binned the lot and fitted cheap metal ones like yours, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Interesting how different the engines are. Same base model but because mine has an intercooler I have different pistons to yours.

Rick, I have been ringing around to my local hardware suppliers and I can not find anybody who sells the inlet/exhaust manifold studs in small quantities. My usual supplier can get them but I need to buy a whole box (250). Where did you get yours from when you stripped your head? Thanks.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Messaged the Nissan dealer to ask if they could provide new Piston rings. Unfortunately the part is no longer made and the dealer can’t help.
Back to square one it is.

 

[solarman216]

I just used any old studs I had around, threaded rod will do the same job, shame about the piston rings but I am sure an after market supplier will be able to help some where, Rick