Coronovirus and lockdown

[Fubbytucker]

And that's fine. Life would be dull if we all agreed!

 

[solarman216]

Seems intubeation is not the way forward with this virus unlike pneumonia, but this has been the method of treatment so far but 2 thirds have died with this method, the best it seems is direct oxygen flooding of the lungs, as it seems Mr Johnson was treated, so on that score I am fine as have oxygen in plenty here, but more importantly have a good immune system as have subjected myself since a very early age to every bug going, when we hear of fit and strong people dying I have to wonder if they are the type that are super clean ie never seen a bug in their life as constantly cleaning and disinfecting everything they do, just a thought, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Rick, I disagree with your points regarding social distancing. However, the last few sentences in your last post might be spot on.

Living in a super clean environment can’t be good in my opinion. You need to build up an immune system and that can only be done by being exposed to ‘some’ nasties. Never hurt me (i think ) to eat most of the sand in the sandpit.

 

[Fubbytucker]

Seems intubeation is not the way forward with this virus unlike pneumonia,

What?!? Intubation is not a treatment for the virus, nor anything else. It secures an airway and allows for mechanical ventilation. Since when was intubation a 'treatment' for pneumonia? What are you talking about?

 

[Fubbytucker]

when we hear of fit and strong people dying I have to wonder if they are the type that are super clean ie never seen a bug in their life as constantly cleaning and disinfecting everything they do, just a thought, Rick

Sure, the dozens of healthcare professionals that have died as a result of covid-19 had never encountered a virus or bacteria throughout their entire careers until this one.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

You can’t compare a healthcare professional to the general population. The general population has a much more limited exposure to the Coronavirus. A healthcare professional that deals with coronavirus patients spends most of their day surrounded by the virus.

 

[Fez_uk]

the best it seems is direct oxygen flooding of the lungs, as it seems Mr Johnson was treated, so on that score I am fine as have oxygen in plenty here

Can't wait to see the first prototype mask made from old terranos :lol:doh

 

[solarman216]

Sure, the dozens of healthcare professionals that have died as a result of covid-19 had never encountered a virus or bacteria throughout their entire careers until this one.

Not quite that simple mate, we have no real information to go on re these people, we do not know how long they have been employed in their trade or how old they were, or indeed anything about their personal lifestyle, all points that will have an effect on how likely they are to succumb to this virus or not, I can only answer for myself in that from as early as I can remember cuts and grazes did not warrant a plaster (none were available as I was always not near home) so just got on with it and very often would wash it off in the Thames one of my favorite play places, very rarely have I seen a doctor and then that was mostly cos I nearly amputated something, I did a lot of work in sewers and often drew blood, bit of rag used to wipe the camera might be used to stem the flow till it clotted and work carried on, not trying to impress it is just how I am and always have been, like wise I have used an angle grinder since they came on the market and never worn a mask, if I drop food on the floor even with dogs I pick it up dust it of and eat it, for my parents family it was our way of life, my mother died at 85 father younger from a thrombosis but was fit and would probably gone on for many more years had the clot not moved from his leg, Rick

 

[Fubbytucker]

Not quite that simple mate, we have no real information to go on re these people, we do not know how long they have been employed in their trade or how old they were, or indeed anything about their personal lifestyle, all points that will have an effect on how likely they are to succumb to this virus or not,

Well a moment ago you were surmising that no exposure to viruses and the like might make people more susceptible to this virus. By that token the HCP's that have been exposed to it must have been super-full of it and therefore ultra resistant? I fail to see the relevance to your personal hygiene habits as a kid in the context of viral load and mortality.

 

[solarman216]

Rick, I disagree with your points regarding social distancing.

In my experience as a plumber and listening to the arguments re hand towels and hot air blowers, turns out hot air blowers spread germs everywhere as opposed to a pull down roller towel that presents you with a clean towel at each pull, a cough spreads droplets (the means by which it is assumed this virus is spread) more than 7 meters across a room so hence my thoughts that 2 meters is no good, and much more than that distance then we could not shop and stay at the required space, re masks they are virtually useless unless of the rather expensive medical type which most will have no access to, my daughter does for certain of her patients for which she has to wear not only a mask but goggles and long gloves and full apron all of which are double bagged on leaving the premises, Rick

 

[solarman216]

Well a moment ago you were surmising that no exposure to viruses and the like might make people more susceptible to this virus. By that token the HCP's that have been exposed to it must have been super-full of it and therefore ultra resistant? I fail to see the relevance to your personal hygiene habits as a kid in the context of viral load and mortality.

Well there is more to life than meets the eye, I have built up a very good immune system, but more than that I think fit, ie my way of thinking is that for example cancer is the bodies repair method gone wrong, so if my body can cause cancer then it can repair it, Rick

 

[solarman216]

Can't wait to see the first prototype mask made from old terranos :lol:doh

I like that, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Rick, I am not arguing with you regarding the spread of droplets etc. You have to look at it from a wider point of view. If you really want perfect social distancing then everybody would be confined to their house. Which is impossible to do as has been proven in the last few weeks. Therefore a workable middle ground has to be found and that is 2 metres. If everybody followed the advice correctly then 2 metres ‘should’ be enough as we should be coughing into our sleeve etc.

However we can both argue till we see blue in the face and probably still won’t agree. Everybody is entitled to their view and each person has a different take on what is best. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree and move on.
I value your contributions on this forum and your insight is always very welcome. It would be a great shame if a difference of opinion regarding social distancing would come between that. :thumb2

 

[solarman216]

However we can both argue till we see blue in the face and probably still won’t agree. Everybody is entitled to their view and each person has a different take on what is best. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree and move on.
I value your contributions on this forum and your insight is always very welcome. It would be a great shame if a difference of opinion regarding social distancing would come between that. :thumb2

Absolutely mate, it is after all just what I think and you think, at the end of the day what happens happens, but it is good to talk about it, Rick

 

[macabethiel]

Do all views carry equal weight even when lacking evidence ?

Reading this thread it brings us back to the difference between views that are held by different people.

I am currently reading a psychology book by Jordan Peterson - in the section about arguments with someone he states the following.

When you are arguing with someone, you want to be right, and you want the other person to be wrong. Then it's them that has to sacrifice something and change, not you, and that's much more preferable.

If it's you that's wrong and you must change, then you have to consider yourself - your memories of the past, your manner of being in the present, and your plans for the future. then you must resolve to improve and figure out how to do that.

Then you actually have to do it. That's exhausting. It takes repeated practice, to initiate the new perceptions and make new actions habitual. It's much easier just not to realize, admit and engage. It's much easier to turn your attention away from the truth and remain wilfully blind.

You must decide whether to insist upon the absolute correctness of your view, or to listen and negotiate.

 

[solarman216]

Think I will have a couple of scotches before I comment on that Ted very interesting read, Rick

 

[macabethiel]

That's a good idea Rick !

Think I will have a couple of scotches before I comment on that Ted very interesting read, Rick

Just wish I could drink more than the 9-14 units a week I have had to limit myself to on advice from HFC Nurse. I'll toast to that with an Alcohol Free Beer !

 

[solarman216]

Well having considered this over a glass or two, I do not regard my views as "arguing" they are simply my thoughts in a very unknown situation, even the so called experts cannot agree, one thing that is agreed is that this is going to be extremely bad for our economy and will take years to recover, yet the powers that be, are running round not knowing what to do, also take the red tape that delayed the air lift from Istanbul, absolutely in disbelief that in this current situation it can be allowed to happen, also the remote testing that should have stated this week but has been delayed because it has been deemed that testers have to be "accredited" FGS red tape by idiots who want to safeguard their jobs, this is not "arguing" nor am I saying I am right, just commenting on my own observations, Rick

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

Reading this thread it brings us back to the difference between views that are held by different people.

I am currently reading a psychology book by Jordan Peterson - in the section about arguments with someone he states the following.

When you are arguing with someone, you want to be right, and you want the other person to be wrong. Then it's them that has to sacrifice something and change, not you, and that's much more preferable.

If it's you that's wrong and you must change, then you have to consider yourself - your memories of the past, your manner of being in the present, and your plans for the future. then you must resolve to improve and figure out how to do that.

Then you actually have to do it. That's exhausting. It takes repeated practice, to initiate the new perceptions and make new actions habitual. It's much easier just not to realize, admit and engage. It's much easier to turn your attention away from the truth and remain wilfully blind.

You must decide whether to insist upon the absolute correctness of your view, or to listen and negotiate.

I like Jordan Peterson, I like to watch people interview him or question him, he is all over YouTube.

 

[macabethiel]

I will definitely look at some Videos now !

I like Jordan Peterson, I like to watch people interview him or question him, he is all over YouTube.

My Brother in Law speaks highly of him I will do some watching on You Tube.

It has taken me 3 months of bedtime reading to finish the book - several times I had to re-read whole Chapters.

My previous Christmas Book - The Idiot Brain took me a week! Its a much lighter read.