Rear wheels spin front don't

[Giggsy]

Hi all,
Was off road today (grass :lol: ), towing a trani out of trouble (Im always there to help a trani in distress )
Question is my rear wheels were on the slick grass and lost traction spinning on the spot the fronts did nowt, tried 4l 4h and 2h all with same result, popped it up a gear got grip and got moving, but why does it do this?
So im guessing im going to get a diff/hub lesson so fire away ta
Ryan

(standard auto hubs)

 

[Boggert]

I'm no expert, but would that be your transfer box that needs looking at!

Sounds odd.

 

[siweb]

did you get grip from front and rear then or just the rears when moved up a gear :?:

 

[Giggsy]

not sure i had head in then,

didn't know if fronts had the weight and grip and rears didn't so spun on spot.

 

[jims-terrano]

Hi Ryan, wouldn't surprise me if you had a front hub giving problems. I had a similar problem when one of my hubs was faulty last year. I can't give you the tech reason why it works that way. I think your rear wheels aquired traction and pulled you out of the slippery stuff and your fronts did nothing at all.

Jim

 

[Toolbox]

You should have had one front wheel spinning as well as the backs, not having any diff lock in the front the wheel with least grip will spin and no drive will go to the other wheel.
If you didn’t have any front wheels spinning then it would suggest that one of your auto hubs is not working, all the drive through the diff would go to the easiest thing to turn which if one of the hubs is knackered would just spin the drive shaft.

 

[Toolbox]

Hey Jim beat me to it, after all these years my typing is still slow although I have progressed to 2 fingers :lol:

 

[jims-terrano]

Us old timers ehh Jeremy :lol: we get used to this one. (old timers = long standing members not old )

Jim

 

[Giggsy]

I thought i'd come a right cropper too offering my aid then getting stuck that would of been humiliating but my gritty ditermination and persistance saw me thru. Either that or me remembering to go into a high gear and not be a numbty helped. thats two people i've pulled from the doo doo, i think i should get some kind of gold star for each 'rescue' -wor-

Well the hubs are on my list of stuff to do, just another q though, how do the man hubs turn on (off?) when would you need to turn them into the off road way and what is the down side to leaving them off road mode?

ok i know thats 3 questions but im not retyping it my delete buttons playing up :lol:

 

[jims-terrano]

Ryan, call at my place and check mine out if you want.

Jim

 

[SLIM]

Giggsy wrote

''Well the hubs are on my list of stuff to do, just another q though, how do the man hubs turn on (off?) when would you need to turn them into the off road way and what is the down side to leaving them off road mode?''


Had the same problem with my terrano giggsy, no drive to front wheels, on inspection both auto hubs were missing the all important brake ring which some how engages the hubs. I couldn't be bothered to repair so took the plunge and bought some manuals from Milner off road.

As it says on the tin you have to manually engage the hubs, these will then engage hub and give you four wheel drive!!! If you are like me and don't need four wheel drive day to day then leave the hubs unlocked in 4x2 mode, if you use 4x4 every day then leave them locked in.

Many people have reported that there is a slight improvement in mpg although i've not checked this yet. Obvious disadvantage is the maunals are not auto, so you may have to get your feet wet if you get stuck with maunals unlocked!!

Hope i haven't waffaled on too much asnd hopefully these helps you??

SLIM

 

[rustic]

Quote from Giggsy. [Well the hubs are on my list of stuff to do, just another q though, how do the man hubs turn on (off?) when would you need to turn them into the off road way and what is the down side to leaving them off road mode?/quote]

If you go under the vehicle (In standard 2 wheel drive) if you rotate the front prop shaft( coming out of the front of the transfer box) by hand the front hubs should engage within a revolution or two of the shaft. (found this out once when I rotated the front shaft to grease it ).

If you can keep rotating, then one front drive shaft is probably still turning and that is the hub which is not engaging. Get someone to look with a torch at the front shafts, of put a blob of paint on each drive shaft and keep checking.

How they work.
When you select 4x4 the front prop shaft starts to turn and this engages both hubs.
To de-select, go to 2 wheel drive and reverse backward about 2 metres and the reverse rotation of the wheels disengages the front hubs.
Sometimes this doesn't always work ( you may hear a clicking noise) and you may have to select 4x4 again and try it again etc.

Leaving the hubs engaged while in 2 wheel drive mode just drives the front diff assembly, this uses more fuel and makes the steering a bit heavier. Quite useful in bad weather to leave them engaged and slip in and out of 4x4 as traction is lost in the snow. (saves reversing back).
Warning having 4x4 engaged on dry or grippy roads will cause "wind-up" in the transmission as the tyres will be slightly different sizes and this can cause damage to the transmission and excess wear to the tyres.
In fact if you engage 4x4 on dry tarmac, the vehicle will appear to come to a halt in a few feet as the tyres fight each other. This has been mentioned by a few members when they first get a vehicle and want to play with the 4x4 mode. IT MUST BE AVOIDED.

Hope this helps to locate the faulty hub.
Best regards, Rustic

 

[Giggsy]

thats great rustic, thanks. I shall twiddle my shaft sat to see whats what.

Thanks all Ryan

 

[Rincewind]

The same thing happened to me last weekend, The first time I have really needed 4WD, (to pull my caravan out of a waterlogged and muddy pitch) and there was nothing on the front end. I did have having problems recently with noise from one of the hubs, which reading another thread pointed to the fact that one of the hubs had locked on, spinning the other drive shaft in the opposite direction to the wheel causing a ratchet affect. Droping it in and out of 4WD cured it temporarily, but eventually it went away. Now that I have no drive on the front I assume the snap rings have gone.

I am thinking of changing to manual hubs from Milner to sort out the problem once and for all. They are £55 each + vat, anyone know how this compares to new rings for the auto hubs as the accountant (her indoors) wants to know before any funds will be released. If I fit manual hubs will I still be able to refit the chrome cap back onto my alloys (standard nissan issue) afterwards? And also do we (club members) get any club discount from Milner's?

Cheers
Rincewind

 

[SLIM]

I am thinking of changing to manual hubs from Milner to sort out the problem once and for all. They are £55 each + vat, anyone know how this compares to new rings for the auto hubs as the accountant (her indoors) wants to know before any funds will be released. If I fit manual hubs will I still be able to refit the chrome cap back onto my alloys (standard nissan issue) afterwards? And also do we (club members) get any club discount from Milner's?

Cheers
Rincewind

I had the same probelm, both snap rings had broken on my terrano, i didn't actually get a quote although one of the other members said that you were looking at around £40 per side to replace snap rings but i would get a quote on them. For the amount of off roading that i do i felt that manual's would be fine.

I think the total price was around £137 for the pair of manual lockers plus i bought a can of copper slip spray for all the bolts. I also used some genreal purpose grease to lubricate the hubs.

The chrome caps i'm not sure on, my terrano only has steel wheels as in the example in the workshop download. As far as club discount i'm not sure.

I hope this is some help

SLIM

 

[mav]

Sorry Rincewind, Milner’s don’t want to give us any discounts, we have asked them before.
They must be making loads of money with out the 4x4 club advertising.

I suppose they will contact us one day if we keep growing like we are.

Sorry.

Mav.

 

[Terranosaurus]

I asked about discount when I was there the other week and they don't.

Personally I've found autos to be reliable, (and I must do ask much off road work in mine as almost any other member).

When I got mine the rings were worn out. New (well used) rings sorted that and been fine ever since, just treat em gently don't engage 4x4 and then dump the clutch, let it in gently, the hubs only actually do anything as you engage and disengage them, all the rest of the time there are no moving parts so they don't require a great deal of lubrication,just enough to stop stuff corroding and seizing.

I enquired on an American 4x4 forum about what the Nissan guys over there use and most of them are happy with the autos it seems. Contrary to popular belief they do not disengage when you reverse in 4x4 as they need the difference in torques between the wheel and the driveshaft to be the other way round to do so. They do of course disengage when you reverse in 2wd.

If I have any serious (read expensive) problems with them I'll be changing to permanent drive flanges from a late model T2 and do away with the free wheeling hubs all together.

 

[Deleted Member S]

Contrary to popular belief they do not disengage when you reverse in 4x4 as they need the difference in torques between the wheel and the driveshaft to be the other way round to do so. They do of course disengage when you reverse in 2wd.

I was going to ask if they disengauge when reversing in 4WD but was a bit to embarassed to ask so thanks for clearing that up for me HB :smile:

 

[Giggsy]

just to double check,
If i fit manuals, lock them on but don't engage 4x4 on solid ground this won't harm them but they'll be ready for off road? But if i drive in 4x4 with either auto or manuals on solid ground for too long they'll knack up the trans?

 

[SLIM]

just to double check,
If i fit manuals, lock them on but don't engage 4x4 on solid ground this won't harm them but they'll be ready for off road? But if i drive in 4x4 with either auto or manuals on solid ground for too long they'll knack up the trans?

I've driven on the road with the manuls locked in when green laning but obviously i disengage 4wd before i go back on to the road to prevent transmisson wind up then engage 4wd again as i get on another lane or cross a ford!!!