All Glass and non Glass members

[nejones]

All GLASS or non GLASS members,

After much discussion, I will be doing a few Strata Florida laning runs in June with the sergeant in charge of road policing matters in Ceredigion.

The purpose of this laning run will be to show him the off piste damage (as much as the lane itself which is new to him!) and explain a bit more about what "laners" do and how it should be done from a GLASS perspective.

Hopefully then, once he is on our side (he will be by the time I have finished), we can move forward and potentially progress with a new local initiative scheme to aid protection and minimise further illegal damage, especially with the CMPP on the cards.

Now from what I have heard and read in the past, this could take a number of directions, but my initial one is to start simple, with the likes of signage and directional rocks/posts and blockades where needed to ensure any off piste stuff is not accidental (we know it isn't in 95% of cases). I will be asking for a base of keen local laning volunteers who are happy to assist with project works when the time comes.

I'll be openly asking any regular users I know along with commercial operators, to come on board with a new initiative to help in trying to educate others and spread the word.

Therefore I will be happy to listen if anyone has any ideas or thoughts to put to me so I can discuss them with him. Perhaps ideas that have been proven to work in other areas, such as permits etc.

He is much more likely to be able to get the council on our side than I am, as this has been a very tedius frustrating task to date and I have got nowhere fast. Wish me luck!

Attached is a prime example of some midlands boys who visited Strata last week with the sole intention of trashing it, this has been followed up, but if you hear of similar on any other forums
please let me know. It this continues Strata could easily be shut for next summer.

Regards,

John
GLASS Area Rep

 

[extreme-4x4]

is anyone invited, id like to come. you could show me how its done then too
id like to see whats involved and see what the police mood is

dont know , but do people go in forums and say we went to where ever and say they trashed it on purpose or what. this is the only forum i use see
i have seen a lot of lanes that are like war zones when iv been on them so it must happen, i know i have gone off track a tiny weeny bit but not to wreck stuff.

so why dont people video these loonies and get the banned or trucks removed... yes ive seen them doing it and its pretty pointless
but i think there is a big difference between going off track and deliberately wrecking the place

 

[elty001]

its a good idea nath but you are always gonna get the prats that have to break the law and spoil it for the legit users.
i used to work with a lad that seemed to make it his mission in life to drive any track,lane or footpath regardless of its legal state.
got what was coming to him as he got stopped on bonsal moor and his motor took off him.
hasn't stopped him though as he still goes up there and anywhere else he chooses but on his motorbike now.
its a losing battle with people like that.

 

[nejones]

The message and its contents are nothing to do with me save for posting it here and there.
It was posted on Landy zone on a thread that identified the group from the midlands that trashed SF last weekend.
The pics have been removed buit not before the police recieved them and they are acting on the what they've seen.
And ex you're right, theres a difference between mistakenly venturing off the route and doing what these guys were doing.

 

[makeitfit]

Ruddy planks
Put me down for a helper etc
From my experiance with the council they will always take the easy way out
I go kite buggying and the sport has been banned on loads of beaches because the council wont be responsible for non insured twats. I have third party cover for 4 million squid and all the proper kit and experiance. Still the council wont allow a beach marshal for example to check insurance etc. So we're still stuffed.
However I'll give you a hand on the off chance, good luck

 

[lacroupade]

Nathan I know we fully support you in this. As I've said before, there are bits of Strata where the line of the track isn't always clear so it would be good to know.

I would say, though, that the idea of permits doesn't appeal TBH, although if thats what it came to, so long as there were no restrictions (and not towing one-tonne trailers might be one!!!) unless its in terms of numbers in a convoy, I would not object. But its taking away a freedom.

One thing I'm not quite clear about; its easy to see why routes like the Ridgeway get closed because they are well used by walkers and cyclists, but these folk are scarce on Strata, especially since many stretches of it are only passable by boat or 4x4!...and it doesn't ever seem to have been maintained (I suspect if it was, regardless of the 'off-piste' damage, it would be a major engineering undertaking to make is freely passable again to all traffic), so why the sudden interest - and thats NOT to start a row or be contentious, I'm just curious.

What I'm saying in a nutshell is, if the council took a long hard look at the route now, I believe they could probably justify closing it today if they wanted to?

What exactly did these turkeys do?

 

[nejones]

Its not well known to walkers thats true, I have seen them up there but not too often tbh. I have however seen many cyclists up and down there. :bow

I have the pics of what these people were doing, I'll host them and put a link on here.

 

[nejones]

Here you go
http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/mrnejones/SFMuddyWheels?authkey=Gv1sRgCOHO6dHxxv25wAE#

 

[extreme-4x4]

seen the pics.
i got to say a couple of the areas they are on, are the parts we did too and could be one of those things where its not clear what part is the track and what isnt. it was a lot wetter than when we did it and we didnt get stuck so no damage
but there are parts in those pics where they clearly have no track they are driving on so thats criminal damage and no excuse

id say clear markings are whats needed and warning signs, also if its clearlly marked the route id stick to it, and video anyone who chooses not to

thats my view on it all... fair i recon

 

[extreme-4x4]

we have a track 1-2 miles from me ill get some pics mid week... you wont believe it ... really

war zone nothing else could describe it

 

[extreme-4x4]

also recon a one way system would work.... cos these extra lanes are usually caused by 2 convoys in opposite directions. 10 trucks on soft ground trying to pass on a single track

all of a sudden you have a new muddy track and play area for loonies

 

[nejones]

You know Col I've done SF so many times and only once (october last year) have I come across other vehicles that I've had to move over for, and tbh you only need to move over 10ft and others can pass by.
But perhaps its newfound popularity is its downfall.
According to http://www.wetroads.co.uk/ SF was drivable in a standard Ford Anglia 100e in 1960

 

[lacroupade]

Recognise almost all of those locations and Colin I swear I'm certain we didn't make any of those diversions as far as I'm aware....I'm bloody stunned TBH....its such a beautiful piece of countryside to do such a shitty thing to....I even recognise the section where we watched those bikers (the pic below) .....it was already badly shit up from some previous escapade but they've made it far worse....

But where the hell those first few pics were taken god only knows, the tracks nowhere in sight!

I wouldn't mind but its a reasonably challenging track anyway in several sections - why someone feels the need to be running equipment thats clearly designed for serious offroad work escapes me....maybe the rule about the size of your car reflecting the size of your willie is proportionally inverse in their case? :lol:lol

 

[extreme-4x4]

yes but this goes back to another thing i said weeks back.... if you close some lanes it just overloads the others. thats what will happen to s f
its basic maths

the closing lanes policy is not working its just moving the problem and escalating it elsewhere and putting the other lanes at risk

clear markings
blockades
signs

and self policing.

but none of that will work unless these groups like glass crag etc ,encourage people to join in and help

closing lanes wont work either i will and still do sarn helen. closing it wont stop me .... i dont agree with its closure. its my right to protest

i know you wont agree but, show me the facts and i might re consider

ive never seen a mountain bike on sarn and only 10 walkers in total from every visit... so why stop vehicles
who else is using it ?

 

[lacroupade]

Bikers in the same placer a couple of weeks ago.

And last two occasions we've been up there we've had to stop for convoys coming the other way....first time alone with Pete just the one convoy and a load of bikers from memory, but last time I think there were three lots, including one crowd of Landys (probably 8-10 I think) nearly all pulling thumping great one-tonne trailers, so they could never have reversed, plus the gaggle of bikers who at one point sped back past us again a second time doing wheelies and all sorts.

And as you know, there aren't a lot of passing places.

Maybe they should allow welsh only

 

[extreme-4x4]

well i dont mind putting my hand up . i went round the puddle paul went through the puddles
its likelly this twin track was once a passing point

one way traffic would sort that

 

[lacroupade]

I know where you mean Ex and that bits totally ambiguous but this ain't it....

 

[extreme-4x4]

well ive already had my telling off for doing it . i recon it is. but if they had markers or blockades you couldnt go in the wrong lane

as it is you cant prove what lane is right or wrong.... we can all guess but you cant say what one is the right one

 

[extreme-4x4]

any news on dates then, id like to come. please

 

[Deleted account DD]

Neo, re the msg you've posted. Thats a great initiative.

There are some problems up on the N york moors. Last week I was chatting with a game keeper on one of the estates. He is a very very angry man and is going to fall out pretty soon with many green laners/off roaders. I wouldn't mess with him anyway but the local cops are on his side.

For those who don't realise it don't forget trashing anywhere, particualarly somewhere you shouldn't (and ignorance is no defence, get a map and stay off if in doubt) could lead to seizure of property, initially as evidence ultimately as "punishment".

The problem this guy has is he works a very large estate. It would be unfair and impractical to fence it all of so on the access roads into it there's clearly posted signs and metal barriers. A significant number of off roaders simply drive onto the moorland around the barriers "because they can" or theyre already on a diversion and don't see the barriers. He has absolutely no hang ups at all with 4x4s driving on the nearby lawful access routes, but when they stray..................

They are committing civil trespass. They are causing loss of earnings for the estate (directly claimable through civil prosecution and criminal compensation including seizure of assets ). They are committing criminal damage (hefty fines and time inside).

I realise that the majority of us are far more responsible than that and would be mortified to stray unlawfully off the unbeaten track , but a lot people are doing so.

They spoil it for the rest of us whether we are walking or driving through the area because we all get tarred with the same brush and as a responsible countryside user I object.

Any initiative to sort it has to be commended :clap:clap:clap