All Glass and non Glass members

[extreme-4x4]

your probably right elty.

can i just point out i do like the glass and crag approach in theory... nicely nicely. im only saying its not working. due to the fact not everyone is working for the same goal.

thats all

be inclusive, have a greater voice and be heard

im not picking on or slagging people or organizations off. im just making a suggestion

ill try to contact this john again and point it out to him too

 

[elty001]

i can see where you are coming from but alot of people just don't want to get involved.
then when things don't go the way they wanted they moan:nenau
the nature of this country i think.
i used to to help out with lane repairs etc but that was a while ago.
was single with no kids so i had more time on my hands but there are plenty of poeple in that situation that just can't be arsed.
just been researching the route i have planned in derbyshire on the 21st of june and most of the lanes are on the councils hit list.
http://parwich.org/2008/09/16/unsurfaced-rural-routes-minninglow-lane/
too many do gooders and anti's get involved in these situations and they spoil it for the minority.

 

[lacroupade]

I think the one problem that will never go away, and is the issue that closes most of these routes, is the fact that it is the County Council that is responsible for maintaining such routes and for ensuring their safety. The police, to the best of my knowledge, have no interest as a rule because when it comes to RTAs and pedestrian accidents, ROWs simply don't figure in the statistics.

That means that the only time they get involved are when the council asks them to; usually because the public have complained or because someone on the council has somehow become aware of an issue.

The vast majority of the ROWs that have been closed I suspect are (i) widely used by a variety of traffic, not just vehicular, and (ii) prohibitively expensive for the council to maintain. Thats exactly what happened to the Ridgeway, 70 miles of former BOAT, over 100 feet wide in places, closed because the council couldn't afford or didn't want to maintain something like that (and it was significantly damaged by farm traffic anyway).

So although I applaud Johns inititiative, I don't hold out much hope - the council will do what it wants to do, irrespective of our actions because its all about money at the end of the day.

But like others down here local to Strata, I remain happy to help out with repairs etc.. whenever called upon.

Still think passport control would be a good idea though! :lol:lol:lol:lol

 

[extreme-4x4]

if you buy or already own a listed building you agree to maintain it... irrespective of whether you can afford it.

if you have public access across your land you have to maintain it irrespective of whether you can afford it.

you cant remove public access or remove a listing to suit you because you cant afford it........ well the common man cant but it seems the council can

and thats wrong............................ and i will protest

 

[lacroupade]

if you buy or already own a listed building you agree to maintain it... irrespective of whether you can afford it.

if you have public access across your land you have to maintain it irrespective of whether you can afford it.

you cant remove public access or remove a listing to suit you because you cant afford it........ well the common man cant but it seems the council can

and thats wrong............................ and i will protest

Sadly though Colin they can. Except they don't use that as the excuse which is why they like to blame anything else. e.g. 4x4s, motorcycles, 'its a historic track' etc..etc.. Exactly what they did with the Ridgeway cos it was cheaper than resurfacing and maintaining 70 miles of track....which is why we're never going to get the council 'on our side' IMHO....fact is, the more attention is drawn to the problem the more likely they are to recognise the potential cost to themselves and thus restrict or close it.

The only way to prevent the attention is for the 4x4 community to take matters into its own hands and do some repairs, signage etc...doesn't need permission to do that because if you think anyone from the council is going to complain (unless its done unsympathetically of course) that someone is doing their work for them at no cost then forget it....

 

[ocelot]

Keeping the lanes open

what's to fall out about.

im only asking questions, if you dont ask you dont learn.

everyone said extreme air wouldnt work
everyone said you couldnt put 35" tyres on, let alone with no body lift too
everyone said you cant get 102cm lift without body lift

they all have worked and well

im here to learn, i really dont see the problem

if the glass or crag way is the way forward, and they intend to speek for the 4x4 community me included , as this thread started. why shouldnt i ask who ? why? what? and when ?

trouble is and i mean this
everyone says dont drive like that . or dont post videos of this ? or dont do dohnuts . the list of donts really is quite long.
so having refrained from doing this and trying not to rock the boat

why is it that when you ask a simple question like i have

why behave and why repair the lanes and when like the sarn they still close them

so why not do as the ramblers did 15-20 years ago and start to protest as one and not as small indevidual groups

people are very quick to show you your errors . but if you question them it all goes silent or they dont want to discuss it or want to leave the club

imagine going to a meeting with the council and the police and presenting your case for keeping the lanes open to traffic
then when they ask you questions on your plan . you go silent or say im not discussing it further.

i dont remember ever name calling or picking on people all i do is ask questions

Interesting comments and I'll answer from the bottom up if I am able.

First, I've been involved in laning for a long time, in fact, keeping rights of way whatever they may be, open. Both on the ground with spade and shears, and, at government level. I can honestly say that it takes a great deal of time and effort to put the case to government, local and national. However, I can also say that it does work. On a national level, if enough people pull together, and at a local level, working with local authorities, results have been made and lanes opened up, some restored, others improved.

The councils are strapped for money, government have dereogated responsibility, some who think MPV access should be stopped entirely have been very vocal and successful (NERCA),
BUT
The MPV community has to some degree woken up and is beginning to look at the issues and take a stand in their localities for the rights of way they use.
I was a member of GLASS, now a member of CRAG and have been for a number of years, I also serve as the regional team leader for North Wales together with other members. As a team, we work with every council to act as a resource in resolveing rights of way issues, from basic lane repairs to taking part in local access forum meetings, giving presentations, and giving as much time as we are able.
In my area, we have the Wayfarer, Allt y Badi, Penmachno, Whitestones, Pheasant Steps, Dogleg and many other lanes across three counties or more. Those lanes are monitored by the users, the councils apart from Powys are proactive with regard to works, Conwy re-stoned many lanes last year, Denbigh and Wrexham are happy to work with volunteers who are properly equipped and insured, in our case, even with plant, and I'm talking mini diggers and unimogs.
The likes of CRAG, GLASS and many other groups inside and outside of LARA work damn hard to present the case on our behalf to government, ok there are those who are all talk, but there are more who are positive and useful in all ways. It's not good enough to slide responsibility onto others, if someone makes a comment, then they should have the courage to back it up when necessary. Don't get me wrong, with Allt y Badi, I couldn't get the TRO set aside, but that was done by the back door with no public meeting or right of appeal, but if we somehow can take responsibility for the rights of way we drive, then we can and will make a difference.
Anyway rant over.....................

Dave

RTL CRAG
www.crag-uk.org

have a look at our website..............

 

[extreme-4x4]

Anyway rant over.....................

thats not a rant :nenau:lol

good points, so if your the north wales team leader for crag, you cominig to a team wales meet?

id like to learn id, like to be responsible, id like to help and take part

but to be honest i just dont get it... everyone tries to explain but i just dont make seance to me

maybe you could show me at a meet one day. we should be having a june meet.

your welcome to come along and explain it to me/us
maybe you could show us some more lanes in wales

it would save lots of disputes on here, if nothing else


colin

 

[ocelot]

Be Responsible

Hi Colin,
What's to get??

I can't teach you anything............. its the old joke

"how many psyciatrists does it take to change a light bulb"

"One"

"But the lightbulb really has to want to change"

Change is up to you.

When we lane, we should know where we're going is legal and open for us to drive. It's no good saying to me or to any of my colleagues, 'I didn't know'.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I took the decision several years ago to take a proactive stance against those who rip up our countryside. I've tried various approaches but the only one which seems to work with hardliners, is prosecution.
I'd rather people got together with those who know the lanes, via mud club, glass, crag or here or wherever.......... and enjoyed themselves driving legally wherever they want to. There are two main approaches I use.
Peer, where I approach people who are either where they shouldn't be or causing damage to rights of way deliberately,
Legal, where I gather such evidence as necessary to present to the DPP in order to pursue a prosecution.
I have to say that most approaches have been peer orientated although a recent sting operation by north wales police with local authority assistance saw 48 prosecutions, several cars seized and a number of S59's made out. One of those was a well known motorcyclist together with 5 of his mates.
Make no bones about it, given the dire closures we face, we need to be seen to be looking after our rights of way, if we don't, then we'll lose them, prosecution repeat offenders is the only way forward, and prosecute, I will.
I for one, will not allow some mud riddled lane damaging numpty to lose neither myself or any of my fellow laners any more of our rights of way.

Anyway, onto more pleasant things

MPV's bring a lot of revenue to the countryside, camping,B&B's, beer, bacon butties, snacks............... the list goes on.
Ramblers bring their car, park it on a verge, stride off into the wild green yonder, dabbing the ground with their sticks and lobbing the odd rock at a car they think shouldn't be allowed. They drink their tea from pre prepared flasks, eat their packed lunch, return to their supermarket filled cars and go home, leaving only the tire tracks on the recently occupied verge. No revenue, little input into the locality in which they've enjoyed their ramble, just pollution, not to mention the filled litter bins with the residue from their pre purchased pre made lunches.

MPV............ totally different attitude and way of thinking.

Many MPV users take part in lane clearance events, even lane repairs. Those who feel a need perhaps to put something back, make an offering of whats most important to them, time.

I'd love to come to one of our meetings, seeing as I'm a member here
CRAG has a meeting at Ewloe on the 3rd tuesday of each month, you'd be more than welcome.

Regards

Dave

 

[lacroupade]

Dave welcome and thanks for your sensible comments.

I think Colins confusion comes from some of the criticism that we have had in the past from previous members who were part of the organisations you talk about.

What we experienced were three things:

1. Criticism about going 'off-piste' (a term I hate) with absolutely no constructive help. And lets immediately put this into context - I'm talking about a track like Strata Florida where on a recent outing we arrive at several locations where its completely unclear which is the actual route...two paths, both clearly fairly old and established and VERY close to each other, but apparently one of them allegedly a no-no. So we get slagged for a photo where one of the folks with us (we are never more than 4-5 vehicles) takes whichever was the incorrect path. But at no point are we told which was the correct path (assuming the person complaining actually knew!) and any attempt at sensible discussion, e.g. questions like "if there are two paths in a 100 foot-wide corridor, with mapping techniques not wildly accurate how the hell do we know which route is which?" were met with a limp response and eventual stone-walling. I am still none the wiser on that one.

2. A post was put up, simply informing us that someone known only as 'John' was planning to take the local police traffic officer for a ride on Strata, pointing out damage that has occurred (and there IS occasional evidence of misuse, usually by outsiders), talking about suggesting use of permits and all sorts. There seemed to be no way of feeding back local opinion on the issue and again, I felt we were stonewalled, leaving us locals (who, as it was pointed out, effectively pay for the track to be maintained!) to be 'managed' so that a crowd of people from the Midlands could come and enjoy our facilities (a bit simplistic and contentious I know, but you get my point).

3. We also got a fair amount of criticism (understatement!) for the fact that we occasionally choose to drive (very slowly) on some local forestry tracks...despite pointing out that we live in remote west/mid Wales and there are no ramblers or other users on those tracks, which are in any event miles from anywhere (and usually belong to private forestry companies not the FC). Our pertinent point of view, that we know our own area and deem it safe to do this was totally ignored; instead we were roundly accused of bringing the 4x4 community into disrepute etc..etc.., a view that I totally refute by the way. I tell you this so there are no secrets! Yes we know its trespass and yes we are aware of the issues around that, but when we then get fed a (completely untrue) diet of "police action", "S59s" etc, which we know to be bull in the context of such activity, its hard to give the individual any real credit for understanding their subject. That then colours the value of their other opinions.

And just to be absolutely clear about our position. Team Wales only actually has three active members at the moment; ocasionally our numbers are 'swollen' by two when the odd friend or member from further away tags along.

We do not condone anything that damages the environment and we always drive safely and slowly.

We are happy to take part in lane maintenance activity in our area, but despite offers we have never been asked to do so. With the right guidance and advice we would be happy to do something ourselves, but would need to know that whatever we did was legal and appropriate.

So hopefully, with your help Dave, we can do something to help preserve the Welsh countryside - as you can see from other posts, this topic always attracts a lot of attention, but at least our willingness to discuss isn't at question! :thumb2:thumb2:thumb2

Finally, where is Ewloe?

cheers

Paul

 

[Deleted account DD]

I wouldnt dispute your points regarding lawful and careful access only, those not adhering should be penalised. No problems and happy to enforce.

However you then blow it:

MPV's bring a lot of revenue to the countryside, camping,B&B's, beer, bacon butties, snacks............... the list goes on.
Ramblers bring their car, park it on a verge, stride off into the wild green yonder, dabbing the ground with their sticks and lobbing the odd rock at a car they think shouldn't be allowed. They drink their tea from pre prepared flasks, eat their packed lunch, return to their supermarket filled cars and go home, leaving only the tire tracks on the recently occupied verge. No revenue, little input into the locality in which they've enjoyed their ramble, just pollution, not to mention the filled litter bins with the residue from their pre purchased pre made lunches.

MPV............ totally different attitude and way of thinking.

Many MPV users take part in lane clearance events, even lane repairs. Those who feel a need perhaps to put something back, make an offering of whats most important to them, time.

The part where I've quoted you is a demonstration of self indulgent one sided ignorant stereotyping.

Did it seemed like a good idea at the time

Its the sort of rant that p's off all country side users and residents (note the inclusive terminology)

Without even having to engage brain and take apart what youve said paragraph by paragraph (cant be bothered to be honest ) :

So called Ramblers: pay and display car parks ring any bells? Lords Stone cafe in N yorks/Cleveland? wardens, countryside stewards ...........several positive points.

Mpv's of course they all q to fill in the local village petrol station .............. not have a trip to Morrisons at Boroughbridge sometime.
Or how about accelerated erosion and wear on even lawful roads and lanes...seen it been there know a bloke who actually goes around fixing up :thumbs


You must learn to see it from all angles working and educating together rather than selfishly insular.

I walk caravan and am getting into green laning..............I dont fit any of your negative non contributing stereotypes and would be amongst the first to tackle head on anyone not playing ball.........and have done. Blows you bit out of the water really doesnt it.

Oh and the last time I combined all bits we raised , at the last count, an increasing four figure sum for charity.

 

[Terranosaurus]

we always drive safely and slowly.

I beg to differ. "Teamwales" has kindly provided evidence to the contrary already.

Dave welcome and thanks for your sensible comments.

1. Criticism about going 'off-piste' (a term I hate) with absolutely no constructive help. And lets immediately put this into context - I'm talking about a track like Strata Florida where on a recent outing we arrive at several locations where its completely unclear which is the actual route...two paths, both clearly fairly old and established and VERY close to each other, but apparently one of them allegedly a no-no. So we get slagged for a photo where one of the folks with us (we are never more than 4-5 vehicles) takes whichever was the incorrect path. But at no point are we told which was the correct path (assuming the person complaining actually knew!) and any attempt at sensible discussion, e.g. questions like "if there are two paths in a 100 foot-wide corridor, with mapping techniques not wildly accurate how the hell do we know which route is which?" were met with a limp response and eventual stone-walling. I am still none the wiser on that one.

As I recall the relevant video and photos were quickly hidden so it is not possible for anyone to point out where etc

2. A post was put up, simply informing us that someone known only as 'John' was planning to take the local police traffic officer for a ride on Strata, pointing out damage that has occurred (and there IS occasional evidence of misuse, usually by outsiders), talking about suggesting use of permits and all sorts. There seemed to be no way of feeding back local opinion on the issue and again, I felt we were stonewalled, leaving us locals (who, as it was pointed out, effectively pay for the track to be maintained!) to be 'managed' so that a crowd of people from the Midlands could come and enjoy our facilities (a bit simplistic and contentious I know, but you get my point).

3. We also got a fair amount of criticism (understatement!) for the fact that we occasionally choose to drive (very slowly) on some local forestry tracks...despite pointing out that we live in remote west/mid Wales and there are no ramblers or other users on those tracks, which are in any event miles from anywhere (and usually belong to private forestry companies not the FC). Our pertinent point of view, that we know our own area and deem it safe to do this was totally ignored; instead we were roundly accused of bringing the 4x4 community into disrepute etc..etc.., a view that I totally refute by the way. I tell you this so there are no secrets! Yes we know its trespass and yes we are aware of the issues around that, but when we then get fed a (completely untrue) diet of "police action", "S59s" etc, which we know to be bull in the context of such activity, its hard to give the individual any real credit for understanding their subject. That then colours the value of their other opinions.

John - GLASS rep, so anonimous Extreme managed to email him as I recall.

Here;s the copied post again

All,

After much discussion, I will be doing a Strata Florida laning run in June with the sergeant in charge of road policing matters in Ceredigion.

The purpose of this laning run will be to show him the off piste damage (as much as the lane itself which is new to him!) and explain a bit more about what "laners" do and how it should be done from a GLASS perspective.

Hopefully then, once he is on our side (he will be by the time I have finished Smile ), we can move forward and potentially progress with a new local initiative scheme to aid protection and minimise further illegal damage, especially with the CMPP on the cards.

Now from what I have heard and read in the past, this could take a number of directions, but my initial one is to start simple, with the likes of signage and directional rocks/posts and blockades where needed to ensure any off piste stuff is not accidental (we know it isn't in 95% of cases). I already have a local base of keen laning volunteers who are happy to assist with works when the time comes, but will be asking for help where it's needed so don't worry!

I'll be openly asking any regular users I know along with commercial operators, to come on board with a new initiative to help in trying to educate others and spread the word.

Therefore I will add to this post and review if anyone has any ideas or thoughts to put to me so I can discuss them with him. Perhaps ideas that have been proven to work in other areas, such as permits etc.

He is much more likely to be able to get the council on our side than I am, as this has been a very tedius frustrating task to date and I have got nowhere fast. Wish me luck! Rolling Eyes

no mention of permits or anything - IIRC they were mentioned only n conection to Gatescarth pass and how a lane that would have been closed is still open through the endevours of user groups be it on a permit only sceme operated on a first come first served basis by LDNP.

John eve states "I'll be openly asking any regular users I know along with commercial operators, to come on board with a new initiative to help in trying to educate others and spread the word."

The purpose of this laning run will be to show him the off piste damage (as much as the lane itself which is new to him!) and explain a bit more about what "laners" do and how it should be done from a GLASS perspective. - how can you argue with what he is trying to do, is it so wrong to want people to stay to the lane, close gates, travel in reasonably small convoys etc

 

[extreme-4x4]

yep had several emails from john. still trying to hook up though... seems an ok bloke to be honest....

i thought our meet with dadba video was edited cos everyone moaned. i hadn't considered it might have been hidden....

i know when i first joined here i was doing donuts and stuff but ive grown up now, and it breaks the truck... or someone might grass on you
and causes days and days of arguments

i do agree with paul on most counts .... i can see peoples point and thair reason they do the good thing repairs and maintenance etc
but i dont see that it works that well .... as yet no one has provided evidance that it works anyway
too many groups and not enough direct action

the fact is strata florida has so many areas where its got twin tracks it is impossible to see what one is the right one
the sarn on the other hand is clearlly one track all the way
i do however still have the right to protest and i do still use private land as a free play area.... i even still use the sarn... naughty i know, but its at my risk and my way of protesting

later in the year the local 4x4 owners plan to blockade the sarn at every entrance... but thats not anything to do with team wales or this club

at the end of the day, i do see it but dont get it.

if i trespass that is an issue between me and a land owner. i dont damage the place . so they can only ask me to leave if they do i leave

thing is its never black and white and will always cause dissagreement

but take us down strata and show us the way

i can show you the sarn and the bridge etc ... and show you it dont pay to do it the good way

 

[lacroupade]

I beg to differ. "Teamwales" has kindly provided evidence to the contrary already.

Exactly where? I can think of only one incident involving an accidental rollover in a private quarry at about 15 miles an hour - if there are any issus in a public place place or on a ROW please put me right?


As I recall the relevant video and photos were quickly hidden so it is not possible for anyone to point out where etcNot true - Dadba removed his video because of all the sniping; the photos are all still on the threads and it was there that Nathan apparently identified a transgression that he never did explain, despite repeated requests



John - GLASS rep, so anonimous Extreme managed to email him as I recall.

Here;s the copied post again



no mention of permits or anything - IIRC they were mentioned only n conection to Gatescarth pass and how a lane that would have been closed is still open through the endevours of user groups be it on a permit only sceme operated on a first come first served basis by LDNP. read the penultimate paragraph Perhaps ideas that have been proven to work in other areas, such as permits etc.

John eve states "I'll be openly asking any regular users I know along with commercial operators, to come on board with a new initiative to help in trying to educate others and spread the word."

The purpose of this laning run will be to show him the off piste damage (as much as the lane itself which is new to him!) and explain a bit more about what "laners" do and how it should be done from a GLASS perspective. - how can you argue with what he is trying to do, is it so wrong to want people to stay to the lane, close gates, travel in reasonably small convoys etc

............

 

[Deleted account DD]

Can I please point out to folk (and this is notgetting at anyone at all) that if you go onto someones land it is correct , if the incident is dealt with that way, it can be a simple matter of trespass between you and the landowner.

However it can also come into the boundaries of anti social behaviour. Actions can vary between a letter being sent to your mam and dad or arrest/prosecution and seizure of vehicles for public order and criminal damage offences.

Bear it in mind :thumb2

 

[Terranosaurus]

............

Yes very sorry not sure how I missed the permits comment - still think it is an off the cuff remark not a real proposal.

I do however stand by the rest.

Dadba removed the video because of the people on another forum who also saw the transgression and pulled him up for it. I have only ever once seen the relevant photos, they do seem to have disappeared. A frontera blatantly straying from the right of way (off piste to the rest of us) as I recall.

If Tony and yoursleves had just had the balls to stand up and say yes sorry he/we shouldn't have been doing that etc etc etc it would all have gone away, but you continue to paint yourself as whiter than white.

 

[lacroupade]

Point taken Dave and we are wholly aware of that, although I believe certain criteria have to apply before thats possible (three people/six vehicles/intent to stay etc..etc..). But we are equally aware (apart from that one unfortunate accident!) that we don't try and attract attention in the locality, and if we were asked to leave we would......but I can't stress enough that in our part of the world the forestry companies are simply not that anal - these forests are far from anywhere and often not accessed for years at a time if stuff is not being cut - they honestly don't appear to give a tom tit.....if they did then we wouldn't be up there (or I wouldn't!).

 

[Deleted account DD]

No there's no criteria other than someone reporting being harrassed alarmed or distressed with evidence & circumstances coroborating the complaint. Can apply on public or private land or a combo :sly its a very efficient way of dealing with anti social problems if you know how to apply it.

Please dont take this info the wrong way I am not aiming it any anyone at all. Its my grey matter ticking along about what could happen and I am sure the majority will never need to worry. We all balls up now and then I've been chased off land by mr angry too :augie

I was told a longgg time ago that if you acted in a decent polite manner with respect for all you would never fall foul of the public order act. I reckon that stands well here too :thumb2

 

[lacroupade]

Yes very sorry not sure how I missed the permits comment - still think it is an off the cuff remark not a real proposal.

I do however stand by the rest.

Dadba removed the video because of the people on another forum who also saw the transgression and pulled him up for it. I have only ever once seen the relevant photos, they do seem to have disappeared. A frontera blatantly straying from the right of way (off piste to the rest of us) as I recall.

If Tony and yoursleves had just had the balls to stand up and say yes sorry he/we shouldn't have been doing that etc etc etc it would all have gone away, but you continue to paint yourself as whiter than white.

Simon the photos are still there - I posted them and I haven't removed them. I recall the incident and I happily admitted to it happening on a later thread - the lad involved is very young and not a member here - he was just tagging along with one of us. He went off the track by about four feet to the side on to another set of ruts that had already been cut but quickly thought better of it and got back on the track...and there are numerous locations on Strata where thats possible. Thats what we were trying to get Nathan to explain - how does anyone know whats the right track and what isn't?

On one stretch, where it was particularly unclear, Pete even got out of his truck and walked several hundred yards because the alternative to what was a fairly unsafe and chewed up-looking section of peat (but which looked like the track line) was what appeared to be a river bed of some kind - and this is a man who's feet rarely touch the ground! LOL As it was, we took the river bed, and it seems from numerous YouTube vids i've seen of people apparently doing it the right way that this was in fact the correct route - but with no signing what is one supposed to do?

The problem here is that there is a clique of 4WDers that seems to think it has the patent on doing things properly, yet as Ocelots post indicates, also frowns on some sections of the community as if it knows best. That doesn't help at all, as others have said better than me.

We have never pretended to be whiter than white but we are not some kind of mad eejyits out to create mayhem wherever we go....and if you were ever to come out with us you would see that what I said was true - we do drive safely and carefully ...after all we're are many miles from home in the arse end of nowhere and want to get back at the end of the day, preferably in once piece.

We've taken some unbelievable crap from a lot of people over recent months, mainly on the strength of a couple of minor incidents (if that) like the one you refer to - an 18-year old driving for a few yards on an unsigned track already royally shit up by folks who have come in from another area to do so....thanks very much to them. And I guess they include people like the convoy of fifteen Landys we saw the last time we were out, all dragging dirty great one-tonne trailers like a bunch of macho tarts - I mean honestly, what the hell is that about

So theres a simple answer to the Strata problem that sparked this off....sign the bloody route. But oh no, somebody from out of town thinks its a good idea to think about permits - first come first served. Is it any wonder we get peed off? All it needs as a starter is for 'John' to get the accurate council map and get a few volunteers (we are happy to help) to sign the thing and put up some 'behaviour' notices.

BTW this is just heated debate OK?! :thumb2

 

[lacroupade]

No there's no criteria other than someone reporting being harrassed alarmed or distressed with evidence & circumstances coroborating the complaint. Can apply on public or private land or a combo :sly its a very efficient way of dealing with anti social problems if you know how to apply it.

Please dont take this info the wrong way I am not aiming it any anyone at all. Its my grey matter ticking along about what could happen and I am sure the majority will never need to worry. We all balls up now and then I've been chased off land by mr angry too :augie

I was told a longgg time ago that if you acted in a decent polite manner with respect for all you would never fall foul of the public order act. I reckon that stands well here too :thumb2

and thats exactly what we do Mr D. I can see exactly how your point applies in the case of a local park, smallholding or farm for example, but the thought of some hairy-arsed forester in his rubber trousers (!) feeling 'alarmed or distressed' because three 4WDs (in a country where no bugger drives anything else) drive up his dirt road at 20 mph (risking being run down by a 40-ton logging truck in the process, or at least they would if it wasn't a weekend!) wouldn't cut much ice with the beak I reckon.

 

[extreme-4x4]

No there's no criteria other than someone reporting being harrassed alarmed or distressed with evidence & circumstances coroborating the complaint. Can apply on public or private land or a combo :sly its a very efficient way of dealing with anti social problems if you know how to apply it.

Please dont take this info the wrong way I am not aiming it any anyone at all. Its my grey matter ticking along about what could happen and I am sure the majority will never need to worry. We all balls up now and then I've been chased off land by mr angry too :augie
i had to chuckle at that one dave.... naughty naughty

I was told a longgg time ago that if you acted in a decent polite manner with respect for all you would never fall foul of the public order act. I reckon that stands well here too :thumb2

i can do that.... im really a nice person