Veg Oil or Dirty Oil (Diesel)

[lacroupade]

Interesting discussion.

1) heat exchanger ? So where do you fit ? can it be fitted by a guy like me who knows nothing about cars ?

2) building up slowly toward those figures 50/50 winter and maybe 90/10 summer

3) if you go from 100% oil back to full diesel, is that clear / clean the pipes ?

As Zippy says Seb, the heat exchanger isn't really needed to be honest.

In summer you go as high as you like, but in winter its not recommended to go above 50/50 because the veg oil is a bit more viscous than diesel so too much could cause fuel flow problems.

To be frank, the only time I ever have a problem is with high concentrations of SVO in very cold weather when it can be a bit lumpy on startup, but that lasts about 5-10 seconds.

Heaters come in several types, a heated fuel filter (best option) as fitted to a lot of Peugeots, or a small heat exchanger...simple type has a glowplug in it which cuts out at temperature, or the more expensive type that has a bypass to the water cooling circuit which takes over from the glowplug once the coolant gets up to temperature.

But apart from being unnecessary in my experience, none of them solves the initial startup problem of having cold diesel/SVO mix in the pipes immediately before the engine, so thats what you always start with.

And it doesn't contaminate anything on these trucks. On some other vehicles with unsuitable fuel pumps there are reports of a bit of gunging but since there is nothing hot going on in there I suspect thats people who have been using shitty waste oil :doh

Just whack it in and see how you get on, you won't break anything, nobody alse has yet.:thumb2

 

[wildbri]

Asda veggie oil is on "rollback" I have just bought some at £3.13for 3l , I used to use the sunflower oil when it was 83p liter, but come the very cold weather the engine did not like it. I then did some tests which are on here some where. The sunflower turned to a solid at freezing point whilst the veggie changed very little at -9c. this surprised me, I stopped using the sunflower oil but now the veggie is discounted I'm using a mix once again. regards bri

 

[zippy656]

im running 33 diesel to 66 oil at the mo, all works fine.

I did look at pre heater for engine, but they dont work unless you heat the TANK as well. theres about .5 ltrs of fuel in line and pump that will never get heated at start up what ever happneds. and thats the fuel you start on, you could have nice hot oil every where but where its needed..

 

[locteau]

cool

ok thanks for this, I just need to get some oil then.

I was reading this article which did fright me a bit :

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

so my last question is :

how do I know if the oil I will get in supermarket or restaurant retailer (new of course) will be ok ?

 

[zippy656]

in my view, if its good enough to cook and eat, it will be fine.

 

[zippy656]

ok thanks for this, I just need to get some oil then.

I was reading this article which did fright me a bit :

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

so my last question is :

how do I know if the oil I will get in supermarket or restaurant retailer (new of course) will be ok ?

um looks to me is they are trying to sell THERE stuff.

so scare the punter.. into fitting two tank systems.. or the like.

I must say mine runs better when heat exchanger is warm..

 

[lacroupade]

ok thanks for this, I just need to get some oil then.

I was reading this article which did fright me a bit :

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

so my last question is :

how do I know if the oil I will get in supermarket or restaurant retailer (new of course) will be ok ?

A lot of hysteria and generalisation there frankly. Not all vehicles are suitable for SVO, new stuff like common-rail is a complete no-no, as are many other diesels using unfriendly fuel pumps (I don't know why that is so maybe someone like Timbo can enlighten us) but the Bosch pump widely used in the Terrano is fine...its all robust old diesel technology so perfectly happy with this stuff.

So long as its new and clear, not cloudy, and you dilute it with diesel its absolutely fine. I suggest it doesn't do what Rustic worries about when its mixed with diesel (although a pound says he'll now do the experiment with a mix if he can afford the diesel LOL) and people experiences on here in all weathers would underline that. My sunflower oil never froze or even went stodgy when left outside in its IBC at -16C for three weeks this year so his is probably 'budget' LOL.

Certainly nobody has broken down (apart from Adz but his truck is, shall we say, abused somewhat! and theres no clear evidence that fuel was ever his problem anyway).

 

[danielj]

Interesting discussion.

1) heat exchanger ? So where do you fit ? can it be fitted by a guy like me who knows nothing about cars ?

2) building up slowly toward those figures 50/50 winter and maybe 90/10 summer

3) if you go from 100% oil back to full diesel, is that clear / clean the pipes ?

You will have your work cut out in the South of Ireland to find veg oil cheaper than diesel. The supermarkets, incl, Lidl, are now about E 1.49 for a litre of veg oil. Diesel can still be got at least 9 cent cheaper a litre. I did get quoted E1.09 a litre a few weeks ago for rapeseed oil from a supplier in Wexford but would have to collect it myself as they don't deliver less than 5,000 litres.

 

[The Patrolman]

Tesco 6.50 for 2x3L veg oil
Netto 1.09/L

Been running the Trol 50/50 ish, runs so much better than on Straight Diesel, feels quicker ( Not quick just quicker )Runs quieter.
Feelers are out for a source of WVO)

 

[locteau]

tank ?

So I need this :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bunded-tank-5...quipment_RL&hash=item43a5568c9e#ht_500wt_1156

 

[lacroupade]

So I need this :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Bunded-tank-5...quipment_RL&hash=item43a5568c9e#ht_500wt_1156

Or just buy it in a standard 1000-litre IBC......easy to store if you have the facilities to manoeuvre it, and you just take it back for a refill.....

 

[Daz__]

Hello,

I used to run my old van on oil but unfortunately my new Y60 has the rotary pump so i cant now Grr...

I did look in to it heavily though before and one thing to note is what engine oil you are using.

A very large company in America runs all their vehicles on veg oil and make a maintenance point of dropping the sump once a year and doing a full flush out due to the mineral veg oil getting past the rings and causing a reaction with the synthetic engine oil causing a very bad build up of white gloopy sludge blocking oil ways.

Just something to think about I'll try and find the link if i can but i think it was before my hard drive crashed

Daz

 

[Deleted account DD]

Interesting discussion.

1) heat exchanger ? So where do you fit ? can it be fitted by a guy like me who knows nothing about cars ?

Yes very easily, i drew and published on here a wiring diagram, ill dig it out if you want. Wiring/fuses obviously important but also ensure it is somewhere snug. It is supposed to be keeping warm and the more sheltered it is the warmer, easier quicker and for longer itll be. I cant remeber where but i saw some pics of one where it had been mounted in in a wide open gap, probably in cold airflow near a k&n, sort of defeats the object :doh:doh

2) building up slowly toward those figures 50/50 winter and maybe 90/10 summer

:thumb2 good scheme but if alls well diesel becomes superfluous in the warm weather. I had no problems in the summer on 100%

3) if you go from 100% oil back to full diesel, is that clear / clean the pipes ?

I honestly dont know but I wouldnt have thought so :thumb2

 

[Deleted account DD]

We're into unproven areas here...........

As Zippy says Seb, the heat exchanger isn't really needed to be honest.

It DEFINITELY does make a difference if installed in as sensible spot :thumb2

eyeball mark one is all thats needed to suss that. Divert some svo into a glass with the engine running. Do it with the heater off and the heater on on a cooler day

Even lumpy the T2 can push it through to a greater degree, but it must be nice and fluid when it gets to the injectors , simples

In summer you go as high as you like, but in winter its not recommended to go above 50/50 because the veg oil is a bit more viscous than diesel so too much could cause fuel flow problems.

Only on start up.

If you have supplementary heating or the ambient temp is , how can i describe it , warmer than the colder days you can run on much higher concentrations than 50%

It all depends how far you want to push it.

Thats where my earlier suggestion of keeping the tank only half full during development so theres room for an emergency diesel top up came from.

I got caught out once using 100% with no heater when the day time temp suddenly dropped hovered around zero. It was f'ing lumpy running but ran.

The "not required" heat exchanger fitted shortly afterwards helped reduce that significantly by going directly (with the min of additional hose) in front of the pump.

If id kept the truck i would have installed another prior to the filter to see what it would achieve.

As I said previously if you stick it in a colder spot you wont see any difference :thumb2

Its good fun trying it out though and as said elsewhere very hard to break

 

[Deleted account DD]

A very large company in America runs all their vehicles on veg oil and make a maintenance point of dropping the sump once a year and doing a full flush out due to the mineral veg oil getting past the rings and causing a reaction with the synthetic engine oil causing a very bad build up of white gloopy sludge blocking oil ways.

very good point :thumb2

I never noticed any significant difference on oil change (more straightforward contam i would be concerned about than gloopy reaction, i thought natural and synth were ok mixing chemical wise?) but as I change my oil around every 6000miles (and always have done) I was probably almost there accidentally

Same, Im told applies to water sep, but that a ten minute job :thumb2

 

[lacroupade]

ah pish and tosh!

I agree you might improve the normal running a little tad, but heres the issue (and as an ex-brylcreem boy you'll have done yer piston engines of course, so you'll know this!) - one of the worst things you can possibly do to an engine is run it at too low revs so that its struggling to turn over...the stresses that puts on the components is ginormous.

And as Zippy points out, its the half a litre of fuel in the pipework that you can never warm up on starting, that causes lumpy startup and rough running which is just as bad as trying to drive at 10mph in top gear.

What you say is probably true for 100% SVO and getting caught on the hop as far as outside temp is concerned, but thats why I stick to 50-60% max always. reduces the savings a bit but still worth having.

 

[Deleted account DD]

ah pish and tosh!

I agree you might improve the normal running a little tad, but heres the issue (and as an ex-brylcreem boy you'll have done yer piston engines of course, so you'll know this!) - one of the worst things you can possibly do to an engine is run it at too low revs so that its struggling to turn over...the stresses that puts on the components is ginormous.

And as Zippy points out, its the half a litre of fuel in the pipework that you can never warm up on starting, that causes lumpy startup and rough running which is just as bad as trying to drive at 10mph in top gear.

significant stress but if within tolerances , no sweat. Zippy is nowhere near completely correct. The oil can make it to and through the pump in a cloudy state no problem at all, checked that out.

BUT It needs to be thin and fluid to hit the injectors, warmed up even better. Correct placing of an appropriate heater does just that allowing less stress immediately due to the instant heating. (eyeball test)

Dead simple engineering :thumb2

I fitted the heater not long after I got caught out. as i recall no massive difference diesel vs svo mix , switch the heater off big difference.

Clearly basic physics and nature will win at times and the svo turns to a mush in weather like we had over xmas so then a heated tank if youre keen would be required.

 

[Deleted account DD]

ps i never did engines (other than via the car club) that was the sooties for goodness sake, we simply allowed them to put their mucky smelly lump into our airframe

 

[lacroupade]

ps i never did engines (other than via the car club) that was the sooties for goodness sake, we simply allowed them to put their mucky smelly lump into our airframe

that'll teach me to be an aircraft tech then, jack of all trades

Apropos nothing at all, had dinner last weekend with a senior army officer and a major who was at Spandau when Hess died. He was locked down in the prison for two weeks during the investigation and the real story behind it all was very interesting indeed, elements of it adrift on the net but not the whole thing.

Didn't ask how public domain it was as I'd had a few sherberts :augie

 

[Deleted account DD]

that'll teach me to be an aircraft tech then, jack of all trades

I was too just not a splitter