Terrano 4wd problem

[kirkyoke]

i'm just gonna persevere with it now as i don't know what to do next, i could really do with somebody a little more clued up than myself having a drive in it. It is getting on a bit now but is still pretty tidy for it's year, i don't really want to start throwing money at it especially as i don't know for definate what the fault is, may change this, may change that & it still be the same if you know what i mean.

 

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

ok, guess if in 2 wd with lsd, almost got poor 4wd compared to some
cars with open diffs front and rear, front axle be a bonus.

can you manage apart from worst sections in 2wd, pull 4wd for tough
stuff, if theres wind up the thick slippy stuff will cushion it for now.

what part of sy are you?, had a t2 for 4 years before trol, not an
engineer more armchair mechanic but seen or read about most things
could meet up and opinion?

btw i'm south south yorks, near crystal peaks shopping centre/a57

 

[makeitfit]

I still reckon you've got wind up.
Any hub fault intermittent or not wont give "wind up " effects. It's got to be transfer box related. Oil or road.
Send us a vid of the road conditions when you drive it next in 4wd

 

[kbekl]

I still reckon you've got wind up.
Any hub fault intermittent or not wont give "wind up " effects. It's got to be transfer box related. Oil or road.
Send us a vid of the road conditions when you drive it next in 4wd

its still present when out of 4wd but front hubs locked wouldn't that eliminate the transfer box

 

[makeitfit]

its still present when out of 4wd but front hubs locked wouldn't that eliminate the transfer box

Assuming the green lights gone out and the selector is doing its job er NO.
Does the 4wd selector lever feel like its doing something?

 

[kbekl]

Assuming the green lights gone out and the selector is doing its job er NO.
Does the 4wd selector lever feel like its doing something?

even tho its fine in 2wd with hubs unlocked ? would have thought the transfer box wouldnt drive the front if 2wd is selected as the front prop would be free:nenau

 

[makeitfit]

Front diff is just a bunch of cogs so not that.
Transfer box is full off stuff I know not what:augiebut it could be that. My point was more that maybe the box isnt diisengaging?
As you've got the ramp/lift thing try front prop after moving out of 4wd high or low.

 

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

nah not transfer, after all its just another 2 speed box with dog clutch
to tie in front prop.

if it wasnt for tansfer lever controlling forced 4wd in low could have low
2 wheel drive, its only an interlock to prevent you doubling the torque
to the rear diff and breaking something, making 4wd compulsory then
spreads the torque.

again dog clutch, not a centre diff, like rangies discos n defenders. good
old fashioned bullet proof agricultral gear.

reckon must be front diff, yep know contradicting myself but maybe
something siezed or broken in there.

wonder if get front end locked, but not in 4wd front up in air, an open
diff so spin one wheel one way other should go in opposite, yes.
if turn together same way not acting in open differential mode.

more like a locker or lsd in front then could lead to snatching or car
trying to be front wheel drive dominating.

 

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

after that the cvjs? either end of front prop. think this has be sugested.

worth testing free-ness of front diff, hubs are simple ish clutches

 

[brynjdavies]

Hi,
To test the front diff works get all four wheels of the ground engage 4 wd low ratio 1st gear all wheels should turn, hold or restrain one front wheel and it should stop. I've often thought a 4 wd could do without a front diff just a crown wheel and pinion as when 4 wd is really needed you want drive to all wheels all the time. Agree with others can't be transfer box as its just a gearbox no diff. Does it have abs or fancy electronic skid control which may be playing up. Failing automatic hubs wont cause this in 4 wd, not locking would mean 4 wd doesnt drive front wheels, locked would mean 4 wd works but in 2 wd front diff, propshaft and output part of transfer box would turn but as it is connected to rear propshaft it will make no difference. I agree with others you just are not on slippy enough ground to need 4 wd. Last Xmas I pulled a twin axle caravan from N Wales to N Scotland on packed motorway snow all in 2 wd and returned the same on the A9 through the mountains on a road that was soposed to be open which to the scots means they have put a snow plough down it. I've had windup when I backed my caravan into my dirve in low ratio 4 wd, full lock required, result front wheel skidded on dry tarmac to equalise the rears and I could'nt get it out of 4 wd without jacking up a front wheel, as the wheel came off the ground it spun by about 30 degrees reliving the windup.
Bryn

 

[rustic]

This weather the way I drive, is engage 4 wheel drive when leaving the house, then put it into 2 wheel drive, on straight bits, then slip it into 4 wheel drive when required, as the auto hubs are still engaged.

I have now fitted a sensor on the front prop shaft that detects that it is still rotating before I select 4 wheel drive, but it slips in like a hot knife through butter, so I engage 4 wheel drive when the conditions are poor, slowing down, pulling away, roundabouts, hills etc, I took my wife to work and used the lever about 5+ tmes while travelling at 30 mph. no clonks, really smooth.

Yes, I get wind up even on my snowy drive, comes to a standstill on 2" of snow and packed ice, doing a 3 point turn on a steep drive , so 4x4 lever is like a fiddlers elbow.
The art is, recognising the wind up, and dropping back to 2 wheel drive.:thumb2
Been doing this for nearly 15 years, still on the same auto hubs, and only greased them once when I replaced the brake discs.
I exercise the hubs every few months on some loose tracks then drive with hubs engaged in 2 wheel drive for a few miles. Keeps every thing running as it should.

Try this method, you may find there is really no problem at all.
My tyres are Avon Ranger M&S still have loads of tread.
Your tyres may have a better grip, thus making the problem feel worse.
Good luck best regards,
Richard (Rustic)

 

[rustic]

Hi,
I've had windup when I backed my caravan into my dirve in low ratio 4 wd, full lock required, result front wheel skidded on dry tarmac to equalise the rears and I could'nt get it out of 4 wd without jacking up a front wheel, as the wheel came off the ground it spun by about 30 degrees reliving the windup.
Bryn

Hi Bryn, what a good example of wind up, thinking about it, the energy of the wind up is transmitted through the transmission, so everything will be tight, the energy must be stored in the tyres, as rotational energy like a clock spring, the rims are trying to twist the tyre, so the side walls must be storing the energy, not the transmission. (It just transmits energy, it is not an energy store).

I bet if you have just fitted a new tyre it would probably spin on it's rim under these forces.

 

[Muckypup]

if it wasnt for tansfer lever controlling forced 4wd in low could have low
2 wheel drive, its only an interlock to prevent you doubling the torque
to the rear diff and breaking something, making 4wd compulsory then
spreads the torque.

again dog clutch, not a centre diff, like rangies discos n defenders. good
old fashioned bullet proof agricultral gear.

QUOTE]

Been looking into this, scrap completely what I said prior they are nothing like Suzukis, Diahatsus or any of the other 2/4wd off-roaders i've worked on!

Chain driven I believe, and built into the gear box not a seperate unit :augie

And not like defenders rangies or discos... they are permenent 4x4 with a locking centre diff!

Well if you removed the prop to the front and everything turns nicely... and everything runs nicely in 2wd i'm afraid I think you may need to start getting prices for a replacement gear box as the transfer box is built in.

Before you do though it does sound like there is an incorrect ratio somewhere, if you can definitely eliminate this then i'm convinced the problem is in your box!

 

[kbekl]

Been looking into this, scrap completely what I said prior they are nothing like Suzukis, Diahatsus or any of the other 2/4wd off-roaders i've worked on!

Chain driven I believe, and built into the gear box not a seperate unit :augie

And not like defenders rangies or discos... they are permenent 4x4 with a locking centre diff!

Well if you removed the prop to the front and everything turns nicely... and everything runs nicely in 2wd i'm afraid I think you may need to start getting prices for a replacement gear box as the transfer box is built in.

Before you do though it does sound like there is an incorrect ratio somewhere, if you can definitely eliminate this then i'm convinced the problem is in your box!

is it really in the gear box ?? what a poor design that is in the eyes of an owner (good in the eyes of the maker lol)

so i am guessing even with the selector in 2wd the gearbox is still driving the front cogs inside the gearbox

 

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

mp dont worry 'bout scrap, were all learning together, but chain or gear tranny is
irrelavant.

dont see how a ratio changes, when ok last year...

wind up is down to resistance, as said tyres will slip in slippy! stuff,
releasing the force, but if part of drive train and thats the front bit
seemingly as rear drive ok. must abe a stiff part down there.

so sticking with partially seized/sticky diff, or joints either end of
front prop. oh and since is independent front suspension.
to the 'half shafts' have bearings or joints outside the diff and at
back of hubs, againnot refering to any aspect of auto hub here, but
bit on wishbone or what ever called.

 

[Muckypup]

is it really in the gear box ?? what a poor design that is in the eyes of an owner (good in the eyes of the maker lol)

Indeed! And exactly what I thought...

Will be a heavy lump that!

 

[kbekl]

Indeed! And exactly what I thought...

Will be a heavy lump that!

hows the pimp wagon getting on in all this snow ? can be much fun just driving down the road :lol

 

[Muckypup]

Boring to be honest!
I really enjoyed last year in the Mav, spent most of the time sideways in 2wd

Permenent 4x4 and rear lsd is no fun, kick it out and it just pulls itself straight again, no matter what your on

 

[brynjdavies]

Hi Bryn, what a good example of wind up, thinking about it, the energy of the wind up is transmitted through the transmission, so everything will be tight, the energy must be stored in the tyres, as rotational energy like a clock spring, the rims are trying to twist the tyre, so the side walls must be storing the energy, not the transmission. (It just transmits energy, it is not an energy store).

I bet if you have just fitted a new tyre it would probably spin on it's rim under these forces.

Hi Rustic,
On vehicles that do not have very good axle location ie cart springs and nothing else the spring will wind up storing energy. On well located some energy will be stored in the rubber locating bushes of the locating suspension parts.
Bryn

 

[kirkyoke]

hi again all, in response to rustics post & the way he drives his t2, on our street at the moment is deep soft snow 6" approx, if i had to use this in the same way something would literally explode (diff or transfer box, whatever is at fault) there is no way on earth i could drive this at 30mph while the front hubs are engaged, for example. pull away in 4wd, stop & select 2wd, the vibration is unbelievable, the dash, windows, steering wheel, everything possible vibrates & it worsens with speed, as soon as i reverse to disengage the front hubs it's PERFECT!
Thomas, I'm in Barnsley mate & could bring it to you in Sheffield one evening or weekend if you would like to have a go in it (if you're brave enough :lol)