SVO

[lacroupade]

2500 Litres

every year. thats approx 5 miles per litre x 2500 = 12500 miles at half the price of diesel....and when it goes up again, the saving is even greater.

 

[extreme-4x4]

even more... if its based on trust. i guess they cant regulate how much you actually put in

but its good to know what to say though

 

[Terranosaurus]

The suggetsion is you keep records - if you do high miles and have no proof of using other fuel I guess they could assume you were using purely alternative fuels.

 

[extreme-4x4]

The suggetsion is you keep records - if you do high miles and have no proof of using other fuel I guess they could assume you were using purely alternative fuels.

and that would be based on last years mot millage i guess.
i recon im doing 15k this year it used to be 35-40k a year .
hope the speedo is cable driven:sly

 

[lacroupade]

Colin its important to understand several things:

1. If the Revenue decided to spot check and found you running on SVO (or a mix), once you've had the argument about "its only 50/50 guv" and they have or have not agreed to a compromise, they are entitled to assume you've been using it all along.

2. They are then entitled to require you to produce receipts to prove you've not bought and used more than 2500 litres in the last year.

3. Because they are also then entitled to assume you've run that mix all of the time, even if you didn't, if they find by calculating your mileage from MoT, servicing or other records (??!!) that you would have used 2501 litres, then you pay tax on the WHOLE LOT - the 2500 is not an allowance in that sense. But if your mileage is demonstrably such that you could only have used 2500 litres of SVO or less, then you're in the clear.

So the answer is:

A. Keep any receipts for SVO you purchase.
B. Make sure that either your mileage cannot be accurately ascertained by anyone, or that you have clear records to demonstrate what it was.

BUT, I think the reality is that this is not a widespread practice, otherwise they wouldn't have allowed it to happen (it was previously ALL taxable). Mainly because newer common rail and direct injection diesels can't do it, and many common fuel pump types (Lucas etc..) can't do it....that doesn't leave that many vehicles apart from the good old Bosch-equipped Mav/Terrano, plus VW/Mercedes as the most common...

So keep your receipts, don't record your mileage anywhere and make sure its a 'second car' would be my advice...:kissy

 

[lacroupade]

and that would be based on last years mot millage i guess.
i recon im doing 15k this year it used to be 35-40k a year .
hope the speedo is cable driven:sly

it most definitely is! :naughty

 

[Deleted account DD]

The suggetsion is you keep records - if you do high miles and have no proof of using other fuel I guess they could assume you were using purely alternative fuels.

Its virtually unenforceable. they cannot prosecute on speculative presumptions based on mot mileage or otherwise !

 

[lacroupade]

Its virtually unenforceable. they cannot prosecute on speculative presumptions based on mot mileage !

daved not clear how its speculative to deduct last MoT mileage from current speedo reading to arrive at a "gotcha" - I mean that would be the only evidence in, say, a clocking case surely?

Isn't the more important issue that TBH the authorities aren't really interested any more given the small number of users, the 'allowance' and the complexity of proving how long it was being used for etc..? (Users? blimey I sound like a dopehead now!)...

 

[Deleted account DD]

Hi, for starters you do not have to notify or record anyone anywhere if you change your clock I could change my knackered 91 000 milo for a 150 000 milo tomorrow perfectly lawfully with no come back. For there to be any remote chance of it being put into an unlawful context they would have to prove my intent to commit an offence with it as part of that, as that would never be present it cant be proven beyond reasonable doubt :thumbs (NOT balance of probability)

There are intelligence sharing protocols in existance and I'm not convinced this would warrant accessing the data.

On the subject of keeping receipts, I have in front of me (literally) at the mo a receipt for 60 litres svo from makro.........gues what guv.............thats all I've ever used in the truck. Prove otherwise.

Does anyone know of any enforcement agency that has the resources to bring a prosecution against an individual wanting a realistic chance of conviction ? I certainly dont.

They havent intro'd the 2500 figure as a charitable measure. (imho)

You , Lacroupe , are spot on. The flip side is red diesel , thats an absolute, none on the public highway. Theyve gotcha there :thumbs

I stress I'm not advocating or guiding any offences wwaaaayyyy from it, this is all info/common sense already in the public domain.

However if you run 25 hgv's each with 100+ litres in the tank @ 1 time youre inviting bother .....they'll go for you :thumb2

 

[Terranosaurus]

HMRC won't take you to court they'll just bill you and then you'd better pay em quick or they will then take you to court for non payment of tax. In the meantime of course you'll be trying to prove otherwise to what they say - anyone VAT reistered here?

 

[Deleted account DD]

HMRC won't take you to court they'll just bill you and then you'd better pay em quick or they will then take you to court for non payment of tax. In the meantime of course you'll be trying to prove otherwise to what they say - anyone VAT reistered here?

The burden of proof remains that the tax is due, not that it may be irrespective of whether roadside penalties are issued or court proceeding initiated

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

interestingly, pre 2000 direct injection transit vans run on svo very well they do have a bosch pump though (well most do so check if you have one it may be a lucas or epic!)

If you keep all your SVO receipts to proe how much you bought it seems a bit 'back to front to me' I have not used any svo in a vehicle ever, and so have no receipts, and can not prove i have bought less than 2500 litres in a year? so surley keeping all your receipts is not neccesarily proof of anything, and could only really 'prove' beyond doubt 'guilt' rather than 'innocence'? I am looking at it from a utilitarioan philosopy (J.S.Mill) point of view, which is largley the foundation of the logic/ assumptions of Uk criminal law.

 

[Deleted account DD]

Absolutely, as I said earlier:

On the subject of keeping receipts, I have in front of me (literally) at the mo a receipt for 60 litres svo from makro.........gues what guv.............thats all I've ever used in the truck. Prove otherwise.

That would not go anywhere even during these strange times we live in :naughty

 

[lacroupade]

interestingly, pre 2000 direct injection transit vans run on svo very well they do have a bosch pump though (well most do so check if you have one it may be a lucas or epic!)

If you keep all your SVO receipts to proe how much you bought it seems a bit 'back to front to me' I have not used any svo in a vehicle ever, and so have no receipts, and can not prove i have bought less than 2500 litres in a year? so surley keeping all your receipts is not neccesarily proof of anything, and could only really 'prove' beyond doubt 'guilt' rather than 'innocence'? I am looking at it from a utilitarioan philosopy (J.S.Mill) point of view, which is largley the foundation of the logic/ assumptions of Uk criminal law.

Rumpole couldn't have put it better! :bow

 

[extreme-4x4]

interestingly, pre 2000 direct injection transit vans run on svo very well they do have a bosch pump though (well most do so check if you have one it may be a lucas or epic!)

If you keep all your SVO receipts to proe how much you bought it seems a bit 'back to front to me' I have not used any svo in a vehicle ever, and so have no receipts, and can not prove i have bought less than 2500 litres in a year? so surley keeping all your receipts is not neccesarily proof of anything, and could only really 'prove' beyond doubt 'guilt' rather than 'innocence'? I am looking at it from a utilitarioan philosopy (J.S.Mill) point of view, which is largley the foundation of the logic/ assumptions of Uk criminal law.

good point... so if you do keep receipts it dont mean you kept them all.
but they cant prove you have not......

so its back to trust then

 

[lacroupade]

good point... so if you do keep receipts it dont mean you kept them all.
but they cant prove you have not......

so its back to trust then

no its back to they can't be bothered cos it turned out to be a storm in a teacup. I mean how many people do YOU know that drive a deep fat fryer? In fact thats its new name - the Terrano 2.7 TDiDFF..

I'm gonna get a big fat 'carbon neutral' sticker for my truck next

 

[lacroupade]

and just to prove how witty I am - it hasn't been chipped!

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

the carbon neutral thing converning SVO and bio diesel is a myth! it produces more c02 (very slightly) and there is no offset! As the extra that is grown is often at the exspense of food and is adding to global starvation and poverty!

Plus 80% of the source plant is waste and has to bio-degrade and produces methane in the process which is more harmfull than co2!

most veg oil fuels are plam oil, and they are cutting down rain forests to grow that!

so the only advantage is cash saving!

its one of those things, if you add veg oil, or a solar panel, or an electric motor etc. avery one uses bio and eco as an autoatic assumption, which is more often than not wrong!

 

[lacroupade]

have to disagree with SVO....I'll dig the science out if I need to but I think you'll find that no plant can produce more CO2 than it absorbed as it grew (which is why greenery is so important.....so its carbon neutral...even if it wasn't its waaaaay better than diesel isn't it!

And with rape (which is the most used cheap 'n cheerful veg oil), theres minimal plant waste which in any case acts as fertiliser when ploughed back in....

just the same with burning wood...! and since I planted over 100 trees last year on 3/4 of an acre (mostly ash for long-term fuel) I feel very smug

but you hit the nail on the head with methane etc...the plant and animal kingdom outdo mankind in so-called greenhouse gas production by a factor of about 1000.....man-made global warming? Pish and tosh.

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

sorry for the confusion, i wasnt implying that a plant produced more co2 than it absorbed, but that as a fuel veg oil can produce slightly higher co2 emissions than othe fuels, and so is at that stage not co2 neutral! Also a naturaly decaying plant, or a plant used as food does not release its carbon as co2 into the air! and so as using a plant as fuel is the least co2 friendly option!

rape is the european favorite veg oil but the growth of veg oil fuels has seen a leap in palm oil and soya oil prouction both of which yeils much more waste than rape, but even with rape, the volume of methane produced from plants used as a fuel source must be included in the environmental impact of the fuel source (ven whwn polughed in!) and they usualy arent counted and so make veg oil seem a cleaner source of fuel than it really is!

As fr fire wood i'm with you there, the co2 it produces burning it causes less environmental damage than letting it bio degrade and causing methan ploution, so a bit of wod smoke is in esscence good for the environment! and eaving it to rot is environmental bad news and plain wastefull!

You ought to pollard a few of your ash trees i make walking sticks and they are a great wood to work with! :thumbs

But i htnk essentially there are too many people using too many cars for oe planet to sustain and i reall y dont know what the answer is, btu whatever we burn in our tanks wont make a great deal of difference to the environment!

the original idea behine 'bio-fuels' was sustainability when everyine was panicing the oil was running out, and can offer a an alternative to fossil fuels as a long tern replacment, but! coal and oil gave off there methane millions of vears ago and as such are now ,'methane neutral' they are also are basically and when you think about it if a piece of plant matter has a given amount of carbon then coal and a log both polute with the same carbon emmisions, just coal doesnt give of methane! so in some senses coal is a cleaner option.

but it is apparently runnig out, and that is where the real 'BIO' indutry it focused!