just wont start

[solarman216]

we used to have a way of finding the short, stick a bolt in the fuse holder and have several pairs of eyes watching for the smoke, locates it pretty quick, Rick

 

[96terrano]

we used to have a way of finding the short, stick a bolt in the fuse holder and have several pairs of eyes watching for the smoke, locates it pretty quick, Rick

And then replace loom and fill insurance docs out for fire damage

 

[solarman216]

And then replace loom and fill insurance docs out for fire damage

not quite, it did work, but you have to be quick, Rick

 

[rustic]

we used to have a way of finding the short, stick a bolt in the fuse holder and have several pairs of eyes watching for the smoke, locates it pretty quick, Rick

It will probably be the cable that burns out then...:doh

Anyhow, looking at my Td circuit, there is a fuse F23 that feeds a control unit for pollution control, this drives the EGR valve, takes a temperature input and also sends a signal to/from the glow plug controller, fuel cut off, etc. plus lots more.

So first guess since you have been messing with the electrics under the bonnet, is to look for a mis aligned connector, or a pin that isn't fully home, or a cable has been cut over the edge of some sharp metal.

Basically go over any wiring and modules that you have disturbed, as this controller seems to connect to lots of things under the bonnet.

One thing you could try, is replace the Fuse with a 12 volt bulb, say 21 watt indicator bulb, if the short is there it will be bright, and as you move cables and connectors or modules around, when it goes a bit dimmer, then you have found the short.

Saves destroying fuses.:thumbs

Hope it helps.

best regards,

Rustic.

 

[Hilltop]

You said there were wires off the fuel heater/filter, is there a short circuit around here ?

 

[96terrano]

well, been poking around again with the multi meter and testing things and ive found the problem(s), seems to be the engine bay fuse box on the right side



seems to only be getting around 2.7 volts, as everything that runs off of it doesn't appear to work, got no wipers, window and light washers also don't work, but the glow-plugs do and so does the central locking, even though their fusible links only register 2.7 volts across their sockets


this is weird :duno::duno::duno::duno:

 

[Nav230]

To sort this out, you need to take a methodical approach. It's the only real way that you will get there. I've seen so many people jump around a fault like you have done and they either never fix it or take ages.

First, if you can get a wiring schematic.

Check your battery voltage, then follow the first battery live feed to the first junction (probably a supply to multiple fuses in the engine bay fuse box) and check it there. From there it will supply several permanent battery lives to things like the alternator and lighting(some via fuses but necessarily all at this stage).

Then it will go to the ignition key as a permanently live and there will be an ignition output from the key switch to some directly supplied items and to some relays. Remember all your ignition lives can and do only ever originate from the back of the key. Of course there are some accessory position lives too but they are unlikely to concern us here.

Check for corrosion on /in plugs and connectors and on fuses. look especially for the green corrosion called verdigris since that can reduce the voltage as you have described.

If the glow plug system relays also supply the stop solenoid as is done on many types of vehicles then suspect that. Just because you can hear the relays clicking, does not always mean everyting is ok. A much smaller voltage than 12v can still energise the coil and thus close the contacts in a relay but the switched side still does not have enough to supply the component requiring it.

I did suggest earlier that if you supply the stop solenoid directly from the battery then you should be able to start the engine of a regular injector pump design engine, you can also energise the glow plugs too with a cable of sufficient capacity. That way you can totally eliminate fuel and mechanical issues if the engine starts.

Remember a METHODICAL approach, do not jump from area to area without elimination.

 

[96terrano]

To sort this out, you need to take a methodical approach. It's the only real way that you will get there. I've seen so many people jump around a fault like you have done and they either never fix it or take ages.

First, if you can get a wiring schematic.

Check your battery voltage, then follow the first battery live feed to the first junction (probably a supply to multiple fuses in the engine bay fuse box) and check it there. From there it will supply several permanent battery lives to things like the alternator and lighting(some via fuses but necessarily all at this stage).

Then it will go to the ignition key as a permanently live and there will be an ignition output from the key switch to some directly supplied items and to some relays. Remember all your ignition lives can and do only ever originate from the back of the key. Of course there are some accessory position lives too but they are unlikely to concern us here.

Check for corrosion on /in plugs and connectors and on fuses. look especially for the green corrosion called verdigris since that can reduce the voltage as you have described.

If the glow plug system relays also supply the stop solenoid as is done on many types of vehicles then suspect that. Just because you can hear the relays clicking, does not always mean everyting is ok. A much smaller voltage than 12v can still energise the coil and thus close the contacts in a relay but the switched side still does not have enough to supply the component requiring it.

I did suggest earlier that if you supply the stop solenoid directly from the battery then you should be able to start the engine of a regular injector pump design engine, you can also energise the glow plugs too with a cable of sufficient capacity. That way you can totally eliminate fuel and mechanical issues if the engine starts.

Remember a METHODICAL approach, do not jump from area to area without elimination.

aye, ta for that:thumb2, i've been searching the engine management circuit as that was the fuse that was blowing, tested all components from a direct battery feed, everything seemed ok, i've tested everything that's to do with the engine and fueling, next i'll be looking at contacts, some reason, it's stopped blowing a fuse, this is after a taken the fusible link out and cleaned the terminals.........this is for the glow plugs, but still wont start

 

[kitchenman]

Stop fiddling do as you have been told a few times:doh

I did suggest earlier that if you supply the stop solenoid directly from the battery then you should be able to start the engine of a regular injector pump design engine, you can also energise the glow plugs too with a cable of sufficient capacity. That way you can totally eliminate fuel and mechanical issues if the engine starts.

Sorry about the truncated quote I do not know how to cut bits out

As Deano said if it runs all is well if not you have a problem or 3

good luck
dave

 

[96terrano]

Stop fiddling do as you have been told a few times:doh

I did suggest earlier that if you supply the stop solenoid directly from the battery then you should be able to start the engine of a regular injector pump design engine, you can also energise the glow plugs too with a cable of sufficient capacity

i have done that:doh still not starting

 

[larson]

this will teach you not to take things apart just because you own spanners:lol

 

[96terrano]

this will teach you not to take things apart just because you own spanners:lol

hay ho, at least it won't rot now in the scrappy :lol

 

[Nav230]

i have done that:doh still not starting

Not entirely electrical then by the sounds of it.

You need absolute 100% confirmation of fuel at the injectors.

It's a simple diesel engine. Fuel, air and compression at the right time and it runs. It seems like it must be a combination of problems. It needs to be bled up properly even if you do it from a can of diesel straight to the fuel inlet on the filter.
I know it's unlikely but you haven't had the fuel pipes off n mixed em up have you ?

 

[96terrano]

you haven't had the fuel pipes off n mixed em up have you ?

defiantly not

i'm going to check the injectors again as this is pissing be right off thought it would be simple but obviously not, all iv'e done was disconnect a few thing so i could move the loom off the inner wings for rust protecting, and not every things re connected.....it's almost like somethings re set it'self but the Terrano's fuel system is nice and basic....it isn't resetable


theirs no smell of fuel when cranking or any smoke.....just hot starter motor cables

 

[96terrano]

If I can't get it started, I can see myself buying something else as I'm startimg to go off the terrano

 

[Nav230]

defiantly not

i'm going to check the injectors again as this is pissing be right off thought it would be simple but obviously not, all iv'e done was disconnect a few thing so i could move the loom off the inner wings for rust protecting, and not every things re connected.....it's almost like somethings re set it'self but the Terrano's fuel system is nice and basic....it isn't resetable


theirs no smell of fuel when cranking or any smoke.....just hot starter motor cables

Right. As I said, it's years since I worked on a TD27 and I can't even remember what I did.
Just for now, forget the electrical side of things. Lets get fuel into the pump.

You said the filter head primer goes hard when you pump it so it sounds like you're getting fuel to the injector pump at least. But lets not take anything for granted. take the fuel supply pipe off the IP and make sure there's fuel there.
Now unscrew the stop solenoid and take it out, be careful you don't drop the needle and spring. Now have a look if there is fuel in the hole for the stop solenoid and pump the filter head and see what happens. test the stop solenoid on the bench, put +12v to the connector and -12v to the metal body, see if it draws the needle in.
Assuming all this is ok so far. Put it back together, pump up the filter head and crank it with one of the metal injector pipes unscrewed almost all the way. I would suggest bleed the IP but I don't know if/where the bleeds are.
You should get a lot of diesel out of the injector pipe, much more than a drip.

If you have got a lot of air in the system you might need to do quite a bit of cranking, but don't crank for more than 15-20 secs at a time and let it rest to cool off the motor etc for a bit.

If your stop solenoid is a duffer you can leave the needle out and screw just the body back in but you will have to stall the engine to stop it or block the air intake.

Sorry i can't be more vehicle specific but I have a Td42 myself and work on cummins 19 litres now, they're both a bit different.

 

[96terrano]

Right. As I said, it's years since I worked on a TD27 and I can't even remember what I did.
Just for now, forget the electrical side of things. Lets get fuel into the pump.

You said the filter head primer goes hard when you pump it so it sounds like you're getting fuel to the injector pump at least. But lets not take anything for granted. take the fuel supply pipe off the IP and make sure there's fuel there.
Now unscrew the stop solenoid and take it out, be careful you don't drop the needle and spring. Now have a look if there is fuel in the hole for the stop solenoid and pump the filter head and see what happens. test the stop solenoid on the bench, put +12v to the connector and -12v to the metal body, see if it draws the needle in.
Assuming all this is ok so far. Put it back together, pump up the filter head and crank it with one of the metal injector pipes unscrewed almost all the way. I would suggest bleed the IP but I don't know if/where the bleeds are.
You should get a lot of diesel out of the injector pipe, much more than a drip.

If you have got a lot of air in the system you might need to do quite a bit of cranking, but don't crank for more than 15-20 secs at a time and let it rest to cool off the motor etc for a bit.

If your stop solenoid is a duffer you can leave the needle out and screw just the body back in but you will have to stall the engine to stop it or block the air intake.

Sorry i can't be more vehicle specific but I have a Td42 myself and work on cummins 19 litres now, they're both a bit different.

thanks for that:bow, i have fed 12V strait to the stop solenoid on the injector pump and it clicks like a relay, also tried to start it with the stop solenoid powered and still nothing....i do have a spare injector pump if needed, will take the solenoid off that before i do the one on my terrano...so i know exactly how it comes out

would it be worth me doing a video on what's going on for you all?

 

[rustic]

would it be worth me doing a video on what's going on for you all?

Well not much on the TV at the moment, no "Only Fools and Horses" so nothing else to laugh at.

:lol:lol

 

[briggie]

as long as zenka is in it :naughty

 

[96terrano]

so nothing else to laugh at