Is he correct?....seems a bit OTT

[andrewk]

But whats the betting you can still make a mess of the pads in the stabaliser :lol:

Sooner or later, I'll forget to clean the ball and end up with a greased Alko hitch. As the van (MTPLM 1500kg, but probably 1400kg ish as towed) is only around half the weight of the towcar (LWB 'Troll with 3 people and lots of junk on board - maybe 2900kg), I'll probably not bother do do anything about it.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

I asked at one onf my customers (a large caravan sales place in south yorks) about Atko hitches today, te ad I was speaking to has no reason to fannel me - I'm not buying one whatever he says and he assures me they make a difference and are worth having - they tow an awful lot of caravans around picking em up dropping off etc for customers.

Also I asked about the clearance issue on 4x4 spare wheels and apparently you DONT space them off, there is an alternative handle available, which clips on and off as and when you can get it on/off but for the most vertical bit of the movement you just do each side separately with the shorter handle.

HB, the hitch replacment handle fits to the caravan, so if you tow several trailers a day you would still need to convert each and every one with a new handle! hence the need for spacing! The new handles also have issues of their own but I'm not gettin into this any deeper. So they only suit peoploe who only ever tow the same caravan with the same car and no one else. Most of this is allready in this thread.

I think to be honest all stabalisers have a 'go faster stripe effect' in that you feeel better because you have one fitted, esecialy if you first swallow the sales pitch with a healthy pinch of salt. As for new caravan sales I have friendsa t two large local dealerships that agree with me!

There are two things to consider with new caravan sales, 1: they will be free of contents and so close to manufacturers weight specs for correct loading, 2: they are all new and will all have these stabalisers so there is nothng to compare to exept the odd old trade in which is not comparing like for like.

Of topic but,I have 3 or 4 blade type stabalisers in my stoarage container that are free to anyone who would care to collect them!! though they are one of those things that i will be able to put my hand straight on them, or, they will be buried under a mountain of "other usefulstuffl" (also know as junk) and I will have to search in which case you will have to wait :wink:

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

But whats the betting you can still make a mess of the pads in the stabaliser :lol:

Sooner or later, I'll forget to clean the ball and end up with a greased Alko hitch. As the van (MTPLM 1500kg, but probably 1400kg ish as towed) is only around half the weight of the towcar (LWB 'Troll with 3 people and lots of junk on board - maybe 2900kg), I'll probably not bother do do anything about it.

Cheers
Andrew

Ive done it several times and to be honest even greased up they are no better, except they do tend not to get stuck on the tow ball so often :lol: I usualy clean them up with a cheap toothbrush and spray brake cleaner if I make this mistake :wink:

 

[daveg]

what is the point of having 4wd if you can,t use h4 in normal driving conditions. or am I mis-understanding this. with every 4x4 I have owned, except one, driving in normal condtions and wet does,nt seem to be a problem. L4 yes understandable, but h4.but all my 4x4 have been permanant 4x4 apart my last car ,a hilux.

maybe I am not understanding this properly.

 

[andrewk]

what is the point of having 4wd if you can,t use h4 in normal driving conditions

Part time 4wd is designed and intended to help you keep going in low traction conditions - not in normal conditions. If you never drive off tarmac then 4wd has little or no purpose, irrespective of whether it is part-time or permanent.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Deleted account DD]

After nearly 48hrs busy as and off line, Plank I've got to say it, you were very interesting.

For the record, a great deal of the time towing even though I had the fittings I just never bothered fitting a the stabiliser. I ALWAYS pride myself of maintaining and packing properly. The only one thats getting 100% use is the alko because its there.

Its such a shame AndrewK had to go through the writings I actually directed you towards (cant much of a bigger help than that!!!!) and have read thoroughly, to produce anything worth reading and actually plays straight to it where he quotes me saying they make interesting reading and says "yes they do". Lots of posts later and not from the source I expected but hey...........

I strongly suspect you hadn't actually read the Bath info yourself (just like wanting to get back to the original question you clearly hadn't read properly for the benefit of the poster....me!) hence your inability to structure a positive debate, particularly after I'd told you I wasn't a fan of Alko/winterhoff and only accepted them because they came as standard and my self (deliberately) composed contradictions were so bloody obvious but you preferred to bluster arrogantly along to the point of dismissing me out of hand and assigning yourself as the purveyor of "good grace"

lmao :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No hard feelings :wink: but you really were easy to direct once I started to get bored.

On the subject of stabilisers & not you:

The reason I was trying to drag info out of you was re "worse" but I also often wonder if the Alko is a step too far when you look back at the effects of the old scott which undoubtedly did exert greater forces be they good or bad onto the car/van combo (you only had to see a trailer put onto a soggy back ended vehicle to observe the changes) and didn't seem to be as phased by the different levels of activity, I really couldn't see something like the alko gripping a few square cm of tow ball achieving the same level of "effectiveness" even if it existed in the first instance and yet scott are no longer trading and as in our case many vans will not be supplied without an alko fitted.

AndrewK, one small point and no great debate needed, you said something along the lines that an increase in stability doesn't necessarily mean greater safety. That has got me wondering exactly what you mean,its something a genuine fan of alkos may pick you up on :wink: Thats on the basis you stop a small one before it becomes bigger but you couldnt stop a sudden one anyway, its a commonly placed argument on this topic.

 

[andrewk]

Its such a shame AndrewK had to go through the writings I actually directed you towards

I didn't have to go through it. I already knew what it said. I first read it over a year ago. :smile:

AndrewK, one small point and no great debate needed, you said something along the lines that an increase in stability doesn't necessarily mean greater safety. That has got me wondering exactly what you mean,its something a genuine fan of alkos may pick you up on :wink:

Now if only you'd read all I wrote ........... (then you'd understand) :smile:

The Alko *slightly* increases the critical speed at which negative damping will occur and hence could be argued to marginally improve stability. Folks who naively believe them to be a cure for snaking may (almost certainly do) drive faster and hence increase the actual risk of snaking.

I think I'd rather them not have a stabiliser, feel less confident and drive slower. :wink:


Cheers
Andrew

 

[Deleted account DD]

[

AndrewK, one small point and no great debate needed, you said something along the lines that an increase in stability doesn't necessarily mean greater safety. That has got me wondering exactly what you mean,its something a genuine fan of alkos may pick you up on :wink:

Now if only you'd read all I wrote ........... (then you'd understand) :smile:


Cheers
Andrew

Aww come on I was just repeating a regular point avid supporters bring up and youve missed off the bottom bit :wink:

 

[andrewk]

Aww come on I was just repeating a regular point avid supporters bring up and youve missed off the bottom bit :wink:

I've read (and contributed to) many of the threads on UKCampsite about stabilisers over the years (and in other places as well), but haven't yet heard that arguement.

Most folks argue that having a stabiliser makes them feel better about towing - which, if they think about it actually confirms my main concern about them. Ho hum ......... :roll:

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Deleted account DD]

I'd agree with you about the false impression having seen some of the combo's over the years.

The prevention one came from an Alko rep!!!!! the big un'll get you in connection with that came from one of the many 1000's of similar debates on UKCS sometime over the past 5 1/2 yrs I've been viewing it :wink:

Theyve come up with all sorts on there. The most entertaining stabiliser debater is "Peter" with his giant font :lol:

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

Dave D you lost this argument when you couldnt even understand abaisc question let alone begin to answer it and then lead yourself into trying to blind everyone with you little bit of knowledge, which as we all know is a dangerous thing.

Its my last word on this as you will never realy posses the power of critical analysis to even see where you are going wrong that is evident from as I said your inability to understand and answer even a basic question, instead of answering the quesitons you think are being asked or feel more prepared to answer.

Its not a enginnering question, and your basic grasp of this conceptso f enginnerng dont answer either this onr the non engineering questions the subject poses, AndrewK has the idea, and has taken the 'data' to the real world, ratehr than just reading it all and being, as you have been 'blinded by science' and unable to view the subject form outside of this narrow paradigm.

A tip in language that is easier to understand, most people who dig themselves a hole have (to quote you) the "commone sense" to climb out before it gets too deep, and dont just keep digging themselves in further and further.

So that said enough is enough, you are wrong and if you ca't see it and perhaps never will see it then to quote yourself "that's not my problem" your smu, talking down to me has done you no favours and merely shown your own inability to reason. So I am ending this here and not being drawn into it any further.

If you think your stabliser is fine then thats your parogative use it in good health and enjoy! I have no ill feelings towards you it just appears I over estimated your powers of reasoning, for that I apologise. I am sure we will post on the same threads again and I hope we don't get into this 'smug one up-manship' thing you like to do again!

That is my LAST word on this!

 

[Deleted account DD]

For the record, a great deal of the time towing even though I had the fittings I just never bothered fitting a the stabiliser. I ALWAYS pride myself of maintaining and packing properly. The only one thats getting 100% use is the alko because its there.

If you think your stabliser is fine then thats your parogative use it in good health and enjoy!

Interesting you start assessing me when your failings are laid bare.

You just don't get it do you and worse still youre the one who's angry posts are there to see :lol: (as above).

I'll give you five guesses who was described to me not long ago in quite vociferous terms that sanitise and precis as arrogant so & so :lol: :wink:

That is my LAST word on this!

Hmmmm.................

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

what is the point of having 4wd if you can,t use h4 in normal driving conditions. or am I mis-understanding this. with every 4x4 I have owned, except one, driving in normal condtions and wet does,nt seem to be a problem. L4 yes understandable, but h4.but all my 4x4 have been permanant 4x4 apart my last car ,a hilux.

maybe I am not understanding this properly.

Dave most permanet 4x4 sytems have a central diff and open diffs front an rear, alowing the road wheels the independent travel they require for normal driving on hard surfaces and prevent transmision damage.

However, the central diff and open difs front and rear can be their downfall off road, as if one wheel spins in the mud it can often mean the other 3 stop turning, or at leat the opposit one on the same axle.

A t2 has no central diff and a LSD (limited slip diff) on the rear, this set up your right does limit the hard surface use of 4x4, but does give them esceptional traction in off raod and poor traction situations.

Bear in ming their owre millions of cars on the tarmac every day with no 4x4 at all, if it were neccesary to use 4x4 on tarmacmore cars would have it! I think your t2 provides a very good compromise between the more 'agricultural' feel of a good permanent 4x4 sysyem, and the dissapointing permanent 4x4 of some modern vehicles.

I hope this help :wink:

 

[andrewk]

AndrewK has the idea, and has taken the 'data' to the real world, ratehr than just reading it all and being, as you have been 'blinded by science' and unable to view the subject form outside of this narrow paradigm.

Being aware of the document and reading the conclusions helps, irrespective of whether you understand the math/science. :smile:

Cheers
Andrew Kay M.I.E.T. :wink:

 

[Deleted account DD]

AndrewK has the idea, and has taken the 'data' to the real world, ratehr than just reading it all and being, as you have been 'blinded by science' and unable to view the subject form outside of this narrow paradigm.

Being aware of the document and reading the conclusions helps, irrespective of whether you understand the math/science. :smile:

Cheers
Andrew Kay M.I.E.T. :wink:

Something most of us are easily capable..............whatever portion of it we choose to project or publish :wink:

iet eh, they dont have very much to do with stabilisers do they :lol: calm down, I understand where your coming from and why thats sneaked in.

On a more serious note having moved on from (mechanical) engineering my professional tax deductible subs currently go to the eps :wink: and I wonder about them sometimes. Seem to pay in as a necessity to progress and get little back.

 

[andrewk]

my professional tax deductible subs

I worked for the same company for donkeys years and professional qualifications made not one jot of difference. I retired early a few years back (my millenium resolution). I keep paying the subs (I don't bother to put them on my tax return any more), IET keep sending the mags - which, to be honests, I often don't even read. :smile:

Cheers
Andrew