Is he correct?....seems a bit OTT

[Deleted account DD]

We always used to be told to keep our hitches greased as it would make for better towing (and reduce wear of course).............

Yes , thats was something I wondered about when I got the Alko equipped van, I actually (how sad is this!!!) got the vernier out and measured the diameter of the tow ball. I'm pleased to report that after several hundred miles towing no wear (quite suprised) was apparent

Time will tell though :wink:

 

[Deleted account DD]

Ok lets put it bluntly.

There's lots of studies regarding stability , there's lots of info indicating at least that stabilisers (leaf and hitch) serve a useful purpose. I've told you where to go for that hard info. Its there at all levels. Fact. Do you really want me to cut and paste the Bath & Alko website onto here :roll:

The main thrust though is you posted saying, then backed away from supporting, that :

the new hitch stabalisers that are in fact slightly worse than nothing!

I can appreciate that the debate rages over the value of stabs but to say theyre worse than nothing 8O

Is that a proven or evidenced fact ? You don't even say why you believe it. Do you believe it ? Fitting a different tow ball, spacers or having to degrease a towball hardly means having one fitted is worse than not.

It looks more like a throwaway comment than a reasoned point or evidenced fact.

Or is it your opinion that wish us to take as fact ?

Whatever the answer it would be nice to hear it you're being very evasive, even if you want to back pedal and tell us you meant that they were a pain to operate and weren't really commenting subsequently on their damping ability and thats why they were worse even though you were commenting on stability issues originally.

:wink:

 

[Deleted account DD]

And now..........Top Gear time, apparently more caravan trashing tonight :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[zippy656]

ive only ever needed 4wd on a slippy campsite when towing.
also were the site had put a gravel path. some cars just stoped when truing to back up pushing the caravan into the pitch. i stopd but just wne to 4wd and all was well.



oh and had to stop on a hll with a bust MAF.. could move up with the caravan 4wd didnt work either, had to go do low 4wd.. the cral up.. just adding to caravansers bad name!

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

Dave d your still doing it keep poniting to the same 'data' you beleive answers my question and really proving me right by doing it, read the question i aksed you again.

But first here are a few clues! lets substitute the word 'data; you use for the word 'eveidence' which to anyone researching anyhting is the 'media' we sift. Now it is a fact that we all view the world from our own paradigm and to be trully reflective, scientific (as this world will appeal to your paradigm) and Oen Minded we need to suspend our own paradigm the best we can or at least the part of it that blinkers us in a given situation and look at the evidence!

have another read of what I said and the odd way you have responded, trying to ansmwer one type of 'question' with antoher type of answer' through not reading the question at all!

When youve done i will show you your error! but i'll be gracious and give you a alst chance, dispite you dismisive responses to me!

 

[andrewk]

someone said to me a month ago i think, they wouldnt even tow a trailer without a stabaliser. something to do with the tail wagging the dog. he was a big lorry driver too

I didn't know that big lorries have trailer stabilisers (shows what I know).

We went away for a week in the Lake District recently - drove back home last Sunday. About half way home (after 60 miles or so), we stopped at a motorway services, 'coz one of the party wanted to go to the loo.

Whilst the female persons were off using the loo, I walked round the caravan and kicked a tyre or two as you do. I also noticed that I'd forgotten to push down the handle on the Alko stabiliser when we set off - oops. It's the third time now that's happened - must be getting forgetful or maybe it's just senility kicking in. Did it make any difference to towing behaviour? Nope, none that was noticeable.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[andrewk]

The university of Bath has done a lot of research on this and their results based upon physical experiments as well as mathematical modelling make very interesting reading.

Yes, they do - and they do not support the contention that caravan stabilisers prevent snaking or help stop it if it starts.

"Stabiliser tests showed that the device reduced oscillations of low amplitude considerably, but high amplitudes less. This result was in line with theoretical predictions, which went on to say that oscillations large enough to induce a negative damping ratio, would not be affected by the stabiliser."

and also

"There is a clear danger here, that the friction level will be sufficient for low amplitude stability but insufficient for high amplitude stability. The possibility arises that the coupled combination will become unstable as an immediate consequence of a particular disturbance. It can be expected that the driver’s control behaviour will be based on experience of small amplitude oscillations, so sudden larger-amplitude oscillations following a chance disturbance will be hazardous, there being no guarantee of the driver’s behaviour being sympathetic to the situation."


For those who are interested, the full report is here ..... http://people.bath.ac.uk/en8cjk/Caravan.pdf

Cheers
Andrew

 

[andrewk]

I can appreciate that the debate rages over the value of stabs but to say theyre worse than nothing 8O

If you have read any of the threads on UKCampsite about stabilisers, you'll notice folks arguing that they are worth having because the presence of the stabiliser makes them feel more confident when towing. I'm sure these are mirrored in threads on other caravan forums too

The concern that I have, is that some of these folks will tow faster than they otherwise would. For these folks having a stabiliser may well be worse than nothing.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

My assertion:

Like the mythical benefits of the new hitch stabilisers that are in fact slightly worse than nothing!

Note no comments on any particular aspect of them just they are slightly worse than nothing! A judgment based on all factors the 'data' presented at Bath and a lifetime of experience and the 'ethnographic' evidence (data for those of you who prefer it) I have collected.

So where is the evasive and backpedalling in that as you suggest?

"Whatever the answer it would be nice to hear it you're being very evasive, even if you want to back pedal and tell us you meant that they were a pain to operate and weren't really commenting subsequently on their damping ability and that’s why they were worse even though you were commenting on stability issues originally."

Where in my comments do I comment on stability issues alone? NOWHERE!

You suggest:

Therefore I would sincerely hope your experiments in replacement were 100% fruitless and demonstrated no change at all.

Evidencing my assertion that a correctly set up caravan needs no stabilisation, 100% no difference!

You forget my claim of:

Even after that I have found the new 'hitch' type stabilisers to be a pain in day-to-day use

And even go as far as being dismissive of my points:

I'm sure they would be a pain swapping from them to grease on a daily basis, fortunately (meant genuinely with no sarcasm) not my problem.

Showing your not taking it in at all: then you progress too:

I" strongly suspect its an opinion or a bit of internet wisdom that’s morphed into a fact somewhere along the line, but if its proven I'll cheerfully accept it, absolutely no problem whatsoever".

Suggesting all my opinions are formed from surfing while quoting stuff you basically took from internet sites, doesn't this point to your opinion being the 'morphed' from internet to fact not mine?

Now turn this into a simple equation:

First you agree a correctly loaded caravan is more use than a stabiliser and that in your case it is a standard fit and you have never tried the caravan without it. So this shows it is in fact to a careful caravaner of little or no benefit. Add to this the inherent expense and problems my own evidence has a pointed out evidence I stand by and can detail, bear in mind research is my business.

And my claim has really been proven by this thread, and now AndrewK has added his opinion it seems it is only going in my favour that:

New hitch stabilisers that are in fact slightly worse than nothing!

You’re evasive, dismissive, give your own interpretation to things I say and a little pompous and narrow-minded opinions have really been put to bed!

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

AndrewK, thanks for injecting a little of the 'mythical' common sense into this, and actualy reading my comments, before passing judgment! -cheers-

 

[Terranosaurus]

Personally I don't do caravans but from what I'm gathering its like a lot of things in life - people who have spent a lot of money on things ae reluctant to admit that they might (even just might) have wasted their money - I lump BFG tyres in with this too btw - there are better tyres out there by far but people who have stumped up £120 a corner will never admit it.

I hope one day you can all tow your carvans to a big field somewhere and have a jolly good weekend away together discussing tow hitches, correct loading, dripping toilet cassettes etc - and then leave them all there and keep them off the road please :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

HB your right there mate it is hard to admit you have wasted your cash (you haven't cut the pink graphics yet have you :wink: )

I still rate BFG's but agree they are overpriced and a limited choice of sizes, and there is no way I would pay £ 120 each for tyres I would sell the car first :lol:

And remeber its all you 'Gadje' giving us the real caravaners, who gave the idea to the world a bad name :lol: :lol:

 

[andrewk]

I lump BFG tyres in with this too btw - there are better tyres out there by far but people who have stumped up £120 a corner will never admit it.

Hey, where can I get BFG All Terrains for that? Cheapest I saw (fitted) for 265/70 R17 was over £140 when a looked a few months back. In the end, I bought General Grabber AT2 for £106 a corner.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

I paid £50 each new and fitted for my last set of BFG AT's :wink:

I need some more but can't get the size i'm looking for

 

[andrewk]

New hitch stabilisers that are in fact slightly worse than nothing!

For the subset of folks who naively believe that stabilisers will prevent snakes, you may be right. In absolute terms, stabilisers must have a small positive effect on stability - but that doesn't necessarily equate to an improvement in safety.

The most annoying aspect of Alko stabilisers is that the towball must be very clean. If you grease the ball, you goose the stabiliser. I tow a caravan with an Alko stabiliser and also a trailer with a greased hitch. There is no solution other than using Isopropyl alcohol (brake cleaner) or similar to clean the ball before towing the caravan. It's a pain.

To reduce the chance that I'll screw up, I have two towball covers - an Alko "golf ball" cover that I use when the towball is clean and a black one that goes on after towing the trailer, but before cleaning the ball.


Cheers
Andrew

 

[andrewk]

I hope one day you can all tow your carvans to a big field somewhere and have a jolly good weekend away together discussing tow hitches, correct loading, dripping toilet cassettes etc - and then leave them all there and keep them off the road please

Why? Can't you get past?

Oh dear - maybe you need a motor with a bit more grunt. :smile: :smile:

Cheers
Andrew

 

[zippy656]

I paid £50 each new and fitted for my last set of BFG AT's :wink:

I need some more but can't get the size i'm looking for

where where £50 a corner..

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

£50each was for mates rates and I dont think he would do it again so soon :wink:

AndrewK I also have twom tow ball covers on my van both dangling from bits of chain one for grease and one not.

But whats the betting you can still make a mess of the pads in the stabaliser :lol:

I have alko balls on all our vehicles because we tow all sorts, only now i have to carry sokets and a pin hitch as well just in case as I cant use a universal hitch either.

So you see, minimal improvment minus so many down sides makes up the sum of my original statment :wink:

 

[Terranosaurus]

I asked at one onf my customers (a large caravan sales place in south yorks) about Atko hitches today, te ad I was speaking to has no reason to fannel me - I'm not buying one whatever he says and he assures me they make a difference and are worth having - they tow an awful lot of caravans around picking em up dropping off etc for customers.

Also I asked about the clearance issue on 4x4 spare wheels and apparently you DONT space them off, there is an alternative handle available, which clips on and off as and when you can get it on/off but for the most vertical bit of the movement you just do each side separately with the shorter handle.

 

[andrewk]

I asked at one onf my customers (a large caravan sales place in south yorks) about Atko hitches today

Errr ....... don't "large caravan sales place"s sell Alko stabilisers? I'm sure Alko would say the same. Have a read of the Bath Uni research report (link posted above). Science usually provides better results than vested interests.

Also I asked about the clearance issue on 4x4 spare wheels and apparently you DONT space them off, there is an alternative handle available, which clips on and off as and when you can get it on/off

It depends on the motor whether this is a problem or not. I did have a problem with the Isuzu Trooper I used to have. Hitching with the rear door open and then closing afterwards works fine, but is a pain.

It isn't a problem on my LWB Patrol. The standard Alko handle clears the spare easily. For some motors, you can cure the problem simply by removing the spare wheel's hard cover. Dunno whether it's a problem on a Terrano/Maverick or not.

Yes, there is an alternative handle - and it's about 30 squids!!

Cheers
Andrew