BT my new ISP - strange problems !!

[macabethiel]

Well I continued to have issues with my Broadband dropping out so an Openreach Engineer visited this morning

He tested my system and soon found that there were issues with my Broadband. He was very thorough and changed my router from a Hub 6 to a Hub 5.

After initial success the Broadband dropped out - he then asked me to disconnect my BT Mini Connectors V2 from the router whilst he tested it and the Broadband was brilliant. Plugging in the BT Mini Connector and it dropped out again!

So at last the BT TV You View Box works as it should and all is well except I am now unable to provide an Ethernet connection to my CCTV system in the garage using the Mini Connectors. A hard wired connection is not impossible but it's a lot of work for me.

Engineer is of the view that the BT Mini Connectors must be faulty - so it's now a BT issue not Openreach.

In the morning I plan to ring BT to see what options / fixes they can come up with. Before then I plan to see if unplugging the CCTV recorder box changes anything. If I do use the Mini Connectors yes it stops my Wi-Fi but it does enable me to view my cameras on my phone.

 

[jims-terrano]

What are the mini connectors?
If they’re simply running your network through the ring main in your house then just buy another set from the likes of pc world as they aren’t expensive.

 

[solarman216]

Why oh why does all this stuff need to be so complicated? am sure it is to do with the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, and that all comes down to the people putting all this stuff together, makes you wonder how we ever managed to put a man on the moon, on Sunday had a short power cut while eating in the pub, half hour at the most, but when it came back on Mrs went to get another wine only to be told cannot serve you, the tills have not come back on, only way was to offer exact money in cash, progress, I think not, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

I use a Netgear EX6150 to get my network out to the Garage. Basically, it connects to the main wireless network in the house, and not only gives me a wireless access point in the garage, but also has a single Cat5 socket on it that my camera plugs into. I did need to put a power supply for the camera, as the EX6150 does not do POE. If you have more than one camera, you would also need a small Hub, which could then be a POE one.

 

[macabethiel]

They are BT ones that they supplied!

What are the mini connectors?
If they’re simply running your network through the ring main in your house then just buy another set from the likes of pc world as they aren’t expensive.

Trouble is Jim I paid £19.99 for a pair plus they sent me another pair f.o.c so if they are faulty its up to them to supply some that work.

Iv'e had the Powerline ones in the past and they were fine - I gave my old ones away to my Brother!

 

[jims-terrano]

Trouble is Jim I paid £19.99 for a pair plus they sent me another pair f.o.c so if they are faulty its up to them to supply some that work.

Iv'e had the Powerline ones in the past and they were fine - I gave my old ones away to my Brother!

Sometimes the path of least resistance and least stress is to bite the bullet and go sort a solution yourself and in this case powerline adapters.
Once working then get your money back.

 

[macabethiel]

You might be right Jim.

Sometimes the path of least resistance and least stress is to bite the bullet and go sort a solution yourself and in this case powerline adapters.
Once working then get your money back.

The stress is mostly from the Gaffer who says we should not have left Virgin Media the fact that it's £40 p.c.m cheaper does not seem to cut it & my deal is fixed for 2 years.

The BT Mini Connector looks like their version of Powerline Units. Currently swapping a couple of the units with a spare to see if I can fix it myself.

I might even borrow my old units back from my Brother to try them.

 

[macabethiel]

New Set of 4 new BT Mini Connectors on their way !

Spoke to the BT Broadband help desk they are sending a new set of the above.

Remains to be seen if this fix works.

 

[rayf3262]

The BT Mini Connector looks like their version of Powerline Units. Currently swapping a couple of the units with a spare to see if I can fix it myself.

I might even borrow my old units back from my Brother to try them.

This is the problem I was suggesting in your other ISP thread.
These powerline type ethernet adaptors use a similar principle to send data between the two units as your BT VDSL internet connection
.
If the output from these units manages to "stray" onto your phone wiring it will likely impact the VDSL communication between your modem and the DSLAM (the green box down the road). If the DSLAM "sees" your line as noisy then it will start avoiding the noise which will result in a reduction of sync speed or even total loss!
It really is Russian roulette as to the severity of this problem, some folks get away with them fine, others don't.

Radio amateurs often complain of wide band radio interference that is frequently traced to these PLT or similar devices.

Bite the bullet and run a cable would be my suggestion for a certain solution.

 

[macabethiel]

Ethernet Cable hard wiring.

This is the problem I was suggesting in your other ISP thread.
These powerline type ethernet adaptors use a similar principle to send data between the two units as your BT VDSL internet connection
.
If the output from these units manages to "stray" onto your phone wiring it will likely impact the VDSL communication between your modem and the DSLAM (the green box down the road). If the DSLAM "sees" your line as noisy then it will start avoiding the noise which will result in a reduction of sync speed or even total loss!
It really is Russian roulette as to the severity of this problem, some folks get away with them fine, others don't.

Radio amateurs often complain of wide band radio interference that is frequently traced to these PLT or similar devices.

Bite the bullet and run a cable would be my suggestion for a certain solution.

Whilst lying in bed trying to kip I have been mulling over running a new direct cable from the router to my garage. The existing cable only runs from my conservatory a distance of about 50 ft. To run all the way to the router it would need to be be about 85 ft long - I assume Cat 5 cable would be okay.

I will try disconnecting the telephone and see if that changes anything as I have a Trim Phone & a Cordless one all in the same corner as the router.

 

[rayf3262]

Distance wise, ethernet is OK with Cat5e/Cat6 to a maximum of 100M.
Are you going to fit the connectors to the Cat6 cable yourself? or buy a ready made cable?
If you fit your own connectors the cable should easily pass through an 8mm hole, with the 8P8C connector fitted its more like 16mm.
The connectors are cheap, Toolstation do a bag of 10 for a couple of quid. You may also need a crimp tool to fit the plugs, again TS have one for under a tenner.

Another thing to check would be the (now largely unnecessary) third wire or "bell wire" from any extension wiring in the house as this can act like an antenna as it is not part of a twisted pair. BTOR will not get involved in this, their responsibility stops at the test socket that is exposed when the faceplate is removed.
Any extension wiring in the house should originate from the BT OR master socket, disconnecting the "bell" (normally orange) wire from pin 3 here will solve that.
Any remaining extension wiring connections should only be on pins 2 & 5.

 

[macabethiel]

Problem looks like it was my old wiring to the garage.

Distance wise, ethernet is OK with Cat5e/Cat6 to a maximum of 100M.
Are you going to fit the connectors to the Cat6 cable yourself? or buy a ready made cable?
If you fit your own connectors the cable should easily pass through an 8mm hole, with the 8P8C connector fitted its more like 16mm.
The connectors are cheap, Toolstation do a bag of 10 for a couple of quid. You may also need a crimp tool to fit the plugs, again TS have one for under a tenner.

Another thing to check would be the (now largely unnecessary) third wire or "bell wire" from any extension wiring in the house as this can act like an antenna as it is not part of a twisted pair. BTOR will not get involved in this, their responsibility stops at the test socket that is exposed when the faceplate is removed.
Any extension wiring in the house should originate from the BT OR master socket, disconnecting the "bell" (normally orange) wire from pin 3 here will solve that.
Any remaining extension wiring connections should only be on pins 2 & 5.

My old Ethernet cable was terminated into a female socket - quite easy to connect them as you know - much like a phone cable but more wires. I bought a little tool to make it easy to fit the wires a few years ago.
This time I will probably use a cable with connectors fitted and cut one end off so I can use a smaller hole in the house wall the fit the female socket inside the house using a standard box.

Today the new BT Mini Connectors arrived - I fitted them - all connected and everything worked fine until I plugged in the garage extension - then lost Wi-Fi so unplugged it. I am thinking that the cable to the garden might have been damaged either by one of our dogs or it has become water logged or compromised.

In the morning I will run a loose cab;e to the garage to see if it then all works okay. I will also unplug stuff in the garage to isolate the bits & bobs.

 

[macabethiel]

Interesting not really heard much about them.

I use a Netgear EX6150 to get my network out to the Garage. Basically, it connects to the main wireless network in the house, and not only gives me a wireless access point in the garage, but also has a single Cat5 socket on it that my camera plugs into. I did need to put a power supply for the camera, as the EX6150 does not do POE. If you have more than one camera, you would also need a small Hub, which could then be a POE one.

At present it looks as if my Ethernet cable that runs from our Conservatory to the Garage is compromised somewhere so a replacement looks like my cheapest & best option.

In the morning I am going to check vulnerable points on the wiring - about 3 years ago - before the fire in November 2017 one of our Chihuahuas chewed through the connection in our Conservatory. To avoid having to replace a 50 ft cable run I put in an extra socket plate and used a connector. I am going to investigate my previous repair first before putting in a new cable. Its a pain as the conduit runs through our boundary hedge (mine). The conduit was installed by Virgin Media for a hard wired phone extension. That cable has long since broken but the conduit is in good condition - its a green ribbed pipe thats about 35 mm in diameter.

I'm minded to use a completely new conduit rather than trying to pull a new cable through using the old one as a feeder. When I did my outside CCTV I used black uPVC sink waste as a conduit - even then it was hard work getting the cable down. Might need to invest in some of those electricians rods to make it easier.

Great weather for doing that at the moment - am hoping I find a dog chew area in the conservatory that would be easier & warmer !

 

[macabethiel]

My long cable is compromised !

This morning I used a length of spare CCTV cable that came with one of my cameras. It must be 100 M long managed 26 mbps to the Garage and all worked as it should with no Wi-Fi drop out in the house.

Just need get 20 Metres of Cat 5 cable then sort out some conduit / trunking for the outside weathered section will need about 15 Metres of conduit.

The speed loss down the temporary cable I tried was from 48/50 Mbps to 20/25 Mbps I guess that is down to the cable length I used it does seem quite thin compared to other Cat 5 cable I have used.

Markings on the cable describe it as " E Network Patch Cable 5E 4PR -ETI TIA/EIA-563B Made in China" not sure what any of that means.

Any advice on what cable to use for least loss is welcome is Cat 6 worth the extra cost or is it down to brand quality ?

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Main thing with cat 6 is it has a sheild round the cables and a tighter twist to the pairs. I used it, as it gives the cable a bit more protection and strength when pulling it down long conduits.

Mine ran between sockets, so I earthed the screen to the house mains earth, like coax would be to help reduce noise, since it was sharing the conduit with an armoured mains cable as well.

I am pretty sure that cat5 can go up to about 100 meters without any issues with speed/loss so you should be fine with either. I got mine from Screwfix.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[macabethiel]

So Cat 5 is okay then I wonder what the cable I used was?

Main thing with cat 6 is it has a sheild round the cables and a tighter twist to the pairs. I used it, as it gives the cable a bit more protection and strength when pulling it down long conduits.

Mine ran between sockets, so I earthed the screen to the house mains earth, like coax would be to help reduce noise, since it was sharing the conduit with an armoured mains cable as well.

I am pretty sure that cat5 can go up to about 100 meters without any issues with speed/loss so you should be fine with either. I got mine from Screwfix.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Never thought of screwfix tbh ! Other thing I have noticed is that some is listed on flea-bay as having copper strands - not really any dearer either - is it worth using instead ?

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Never thought of screwfix tbh ! Other thing I have noticed is that some is listed on flea-bay as having copper strands - not really any dearer either - is it worth using instead ?

Not sure. I think generally, you have solid copper or aluminium. Aluminium is the best conductor, but you can only terminate it in IDC, rather than being able to solder it, but since most CAT 5/6 stuff is IDC anyway that would not be a problem. The only really reason to use strands is cable flexibility, but I would worry about the outer strands cutting when forced into the "V" of the IDC connector, and the inner ones just not making a good contact

I have never used stranded, but I think I would stay away from stranded as I can foresee more hassle than advantages.

I know that the stranded telecom cable only worked when soldered, or was put under a screw connector, it was very unreliable if you tried to use any of the newer IDC terminations on it.

I am a bit disillusioned with Ebay at the moment, after using it for years, and only having had a couple of issues that were easily resolved, I have had so many disputes this Christmas/New Year. People selling substandard things pretending it is much better than it is, now seems to be the normal. At least with Screwfix, you can read their reviews, and they publish both good and bad allowing you to make up your mind.