broken something

[trophymick]

% of Charge - - - - Charging - - - At Rest - - - Discharging

100 - - - - - - - - - - - - 14.75 - - - - - - - - 12.70 - - - - - - 12.50
90 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13.75 - - - - - - - - 12.58 - - - - - - 12.40
80 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13.45 - - - - - - - - 12.46 - - - - - - 12.30
70 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13.30 - - - - - - - - 12.36 - - - - - - 12.25
60 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13.20 - - - - - - - - 12.28 - - - - - - 12.15
50 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 13.10 - - - - - - - - 12.20 - - - - - - 12.00
40 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12.95 - - - - - - - - 12.12 - - - - - - 11.90
30 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12.75 - - - - - - - - 12.02 - - - - - - 11.70
20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12.55 - - - - - - - - 11.88 - - - - - - 11.50
10 - - - - - - - - - - - - - 12.25 - - - - - - - - 11.72 - - - - - - 11.25

 

[rustic]

how come when I had my Vectra c my battery was reading 12.6 volts and it wouldn't start. but all the lights came on and they did'nt dim when trying to start . so I called green flag and they told me diesel engines need around 15 volts in a battery to turn it over . ? so I went and got a new battery and it started fine after that

Green Flag haven't got a clue have they....:doh

The most that a fully charged 12 volt battery is 12.73 volts, this is it's resting voltage, ie half an hour after being charged, and not having been discharged.

OK after a run it will show over 13 volts, but this extra voltage is called "surface charge"

Your battery, even though it showed a healthy voltage, was probably sulphated, ie knackerered, and was unable to give the required starting current.

Rustic

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

how come when I had my Vectra c my battery was reading 12.6 volts and it wouldn't start. but all the lights came on and they did'nt dim when trying to start . so I called green flag and they told me diesel engines need around 15 volts in a battery to turn it over . ? so I went and got a new battery and it started fine after that

The cells in a charged Lead acid battery are at about 2v each, and there are 6, hence 12volt. To charge, they generally need about 0.3 volts more, so when the alternator is running you need about 13.8volts to charge a 12 volt battery.

When you switch off the engine, and the alternator stops charging, the battery will sit at around 12.6volt, although I have never worked out quiet why the cells then sit at 2.1volts, rather than the 2volts.

Only a seriously over charged battery would get to 15volts, but the contents would be boiling away very quickly. The problem is, Volts is only part of the story, it is the available Current that is more needed when starting a car, e.g., you could put 8 x AA batteries together to get 12 volts, but there would be insufficient current available to start a car from them. The problem is, the only way to measure the available current, is to actually use it up as you measure it, which in it's own right runs the battery flat. So the easy test is, to see if the battery can hold a voltage, while a load is being drawn, which in an ideal environment, would be 12v, as the recommended cranking amps of the battery.

 

[clivvy]

that voltage Clive was that while turning the key to the start position and did the starter solenoid click? Rick

the voltage shown at first is key on but not turned, when it is turned, the voltage drops and you can hear the click, then when the key is returned to on, the voltage returns to what it was...

 

[clivvy]

Found this comment from April 2008 from member ssteve...

think i got the top one with a 28" 1/2" drive ext bar with a u/j on the bottom end from under the bonnet , not a bad job really (45 mins at most, off and new one on)hardest bit was paying for new one £80 approx 8O
ssteve :wink:

Hope it helps.

best regards,
Rustic

hmm..i did try this, but had to use my 1/2" 14mm socket. this pushed the bar to the solenoid part of the start and as such, had zero movement (unlike with a ratchet, I have no way to adjust the extension bar)

 

[cncfabs]

hmm..i did try this, but had to use my 1/2" 14mm socket. this pushed the bar to the solenoid part of the start and as such, had zero movement (unlike with a ratchet, I have no way to adjust the extension bar)

Think the later terrano is slighly different i had bit of trouble removing one from 04 plate could only use spanner.On previous models ive always been able to use socket

 

[clivvy]

Think the later terrano is slighly different i had bit of trouble removing one from 04 plate could only use spanner.On previous models ive always been able to use socket

yes, I am thinking something is very different because I didn't have this issue on my 97 Maverick. I distinctly remember the top bolt been quite easy.

If you look on the later model, I am sure there is a bit of engine block extra sticking over the solenoid area, just after the dip stick. This is where I get stuck with an extension. I cant quite figure what manner of extension bars I need to crack the bolt - I don't think the bolt is stuck, I just cant get in there to crack it loose. The lower bolt was fine, but it took a hefty tug to get it loose but I had the space in the wheel arch./

 

[solarman216]

the voltage shown at first is key on but not turned, when it is turned, the voltage drops and you can hear the click, then when the key is returned to on, the voltage returns to what it was...

yes sounds like the starter has failed, good luck with the top bolt, it was fiddly on the earlier models if they have made it harder they must think starters go on for ever, Rick

 

[clivvy]

yes sounds like the starter has failed, good luck with the top bolt, it was fiddly on the earlier models if they have made it harder they must think starters go on for ever, Rick

yeah I think something has changed in the later models, just isn't the same room. I think I need this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en

long, thin and has a ratchet on the end. Just need to find somewhere local to buy it or buy online. I don't think any amount of extension bars is going to help me....

 

[solarman216]

think the extra length may be more of a hindrance, sure it will foul something else, in these situations I prefer a short spanner then find something to extend it with at the right angle, Rick

 

[clivvy]

yeah I agree but I tried that. no matter what I used to extend it, I hit an obstacle or couldn't get the leverage. The nearest I could get to making any progress was using my standard length wrench spanner. The problem with this was it sat just below the engine clock, behind the dip stick. I couldn't get any weight onto it. I feel that if I had a longer version of that, it would be ok. Because of the wrench, its more inline with the gap near the master cylinder which has more space that there is over the solenoid area!!

its crazy. Im going to try a LONG wrench later this week and if it works, post photos because I am sure this will pop up again!

 

[solarman216]

Good luck mate, Rick

 

[rustic]

you might have to grind down a spanner, drill a hole trough the arm, then put a "D" link through it, then lever of this some how.:nenau

Now I haven't tried this for this application, but my toolbox does have modified spanners and screw drivers and allen keys that I have "bodged" over the years.

 

[clivvy]

You may be right Rustic, though I have just ordered what will either the perfect ratchet spanner or a waste of £10.90! Is 30.6cm long and needs only 5degree rotation per notch so fingerrs crossed it works. If it does, it'll come in handy for refitting. If it doesn't, its not a total waste as 14mm is common throughout the cast and my other two cars. Fingers crossed, I should get the spanner by Wednesday/thursday so weather permitting I'll give it a bash.

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

How about something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-Long-T-Bar-With-3-8-Flexible-Ratchet-Free-U-S-Shipping-Lifetime-Warranty-/151065660984?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item232c370e38

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-T-Bar-1-2-Flexible-Ratchet-/280716239370?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item415bfde20a

 

[clivvy]

How about something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-Long-T-Bar-With-3-8-Flexible-Ratchet-Free-U-S-Shipping-Lifetime-Warranty-/151065660984?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item232c370e38

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-T-Bar-1-2-Flexible-Ratchet-/280716239370?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item415bfde20a

Yeah it looks like that's the sort of thing is required, has to have a ratchet on the end, good find !

 

[rustic]

How about something like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18-Long-T-Bar-With-3-8-Flexible-Ratchet-Free-U-S-Shipping-Lifetime-Warranty-/151065660984?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item232c370e38

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-T-Bar-1-2-Flexible-Ratchet-/280716239370?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item415bfde20a

With one of those, you needn't go outside, you could reach the bolt from your front door of the house...:lol:lol


I have a set of ratchet ring spanners, in fact they were still for sale in my local Aldi last week.
The set includes a 14mm AF. There are approx 72 clicks per rev, so that equates to 5 degrees per click :thumb2:thumb2

I use the set all the time, they are so quick, so far, quite tough too.
Everyone should have a set. I guess about £12 ish...:nenau. a set.

The only problem with ratchet spanners is that they are not intended for high torque applications, but hey, Aldi Guarantee them, or your money back, so what have you got to loose.:thumb2

Not all Aldi's may have them, so you might have to try a couple of branches, they are made by " Workzone"


Edit:
Just looked at my complete set, the set I bought had the following sizes:-
8, 10, 13, 14, 17 mm

Best regards,

Rustic

 

[clivvy]

With one of those, you needn't go outside, you could reach the bolt from your front door of the house...:lol:lol


I have a set of ratchet ring spanners, in fact they were still for sale in my local Aldi last week.
The set includes a 14mm AF. There are approx 72 clicks per rev, so that equates to 5 degrees per click :thumb2:thumb2

I use the set all the time, they are so quick, so far, quite tough too.
Everyone should have a set. I guess about £12 ish...:nenau. a set.

The only problem with ratchet spanners is that they are not intended for high torque applications, but hey, Aldi Guarantee them, or your money back, so what have you got to loose.:thumb2

Not all Aldi's may have them, so you might have to try a couple of branches, they are made by " Workzone"

Best regards,

Rustic

yeah I have a big set of ratchet spanners/normal spanners. They are my favourite tool set because I use them so often. In fact, its only the ratchet spanner that I can get to fit on the starter top bolt and give me at least some purchase to get the bolt loose - but the space is still limiting. As you say, everyone should have a set! I have to admit, I have given mine some whacks, they are really tougher than you expect!

 

[clivvy]

hi chaps, very quick update.

my new spanner did the trick!! Popped home today and had a bash, was fiddly finding the bolt and I couldn't see a thing due to the sun being right in my face.

anyhoo, as soon as I got the spanner attached I was able to crack it loose. I was right, the length of spanner was perfect in that it came up by the master cylinder meaning I had enough room to crack the bolt loose and loosen it!

Didn't have time to do any more than that, so on Saturday I will remove the bolt, remove the starter and test it. I will then decide if I get it refurbished, or buy new....

this is the spanner I got http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330888252...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[clivvy]

ok, got the starter out today. Not TOO bad to be honest, used a bungee to help keep it from falling then manoeuvred it out reasonably easy - didn't have to move much in terms of cables and pipes.

anyhoo, tested the motor, and this video seems reasonably conclusive...

http://s176.photobucket.com/user/clivjoo/media/CIMG3167_zpsb3dca5b3.mp4.html