Bleeding starter!!

[richtheracer]

Guys what a time for the starter to give up!! Took it off last night and dropped it off at local motor sparky and was ready this morning, clutch had give up the ghost so wasnt engaging!! Anyways whilst at work today some idiot smashed into my Micra and wrote it off but amazingly drove off! Left no details but got him by the short and curlys as witness has given me the reg and exactly who was driving etc!! What a shite day , anyways managed to get the starter done so got one car and what a difference to starting, must have been on way out for a while!! Anyway enjoy the snow, had a fair bit in Coventry but is now forecast on and off til weds

 

[jims-terrano]

That's a crap day mate, at least your toy's back on the road:thumbs

 

[richtheracer]

Ok so had my starter reconditioned last week, but still shite at starting first thing!! Bought a new battery yesterday another £100 expecting her to fly into life this morning...err nope!! Sounds like something pulling juice out of battery and engine cranking very slowly!! Help :nenau

 

[geoffdown]

Ok so had my starter reconditioned last week, but still shite at starting first thing!! Bought a new battery yesterday another £100 expecting her to fly into life this morning...err nope!! Sounds like something pulling juice out of battery and engine cranking very slowly!! Help :nenau

This has been said before have u checked the terminal s clamp on both the + and the - they may look ok but they do crack giving what seams like a flat or dieing battery

 

[clivvy]

new battery, reconditioned starter, bad starting.

Glow plugs, glow plug relay, buzz bar, ignition switch. so, in what way is it bad starting in the morning? Is it ok after the car is warmed up?

 

[Fez_uk]

Glow plugs, glow plug relay, buzz bar, ignition switch. so, in what way is it bad starting in the morning? Is it ok after the car is warmed up?

Engine would still turn over faster then he describes.

 

[danielj]

Can you lay your hands on one of those rechargable starter/jump starter packs and try starting the truck with that (I got one in Aldi's a rechargable mini-compressor/starter that you can carry around). That will tell you if the battery is the problem or not. You could also try fully recharging the battery and see if the truck starts ok. If it's ok when the battery is fully charged then something is drawing from the battery or its not charging when driving (maybe alternator problem). If you fully recharge the battery and it starts ok you could try leaving the truck overnight and see if its slower to start in the morning. If the battery does seem to be draining overnight or when not in use then its probably something like a light staying on or corroded wires shorting out something. (Had problem with battery draining overnight until I realised the kids were playing with the cabin lights and leaving them switched to on. Removed cabin light bulb and problem sorted. Also had similar problem with a toyota corolla one time and couldn't figure it out because it was the light in the boot that was sticking and staying on all the time.)

 

[clivvy]

ah right i understand, we're talking the real slow cranking issue. does sound like its power related?

 

[glanrichbex]

O.k - Just test to see if something is drawing from the battery.

Disconnect the +ve terminal from the battery then place a 12volt brake lamp bulb between the battery connector and the battery terminal you have removed the connector from.

If there is any illumination of the filament of the buld then something is drawing current.

SECOND TEST - Is your alternator doing its work.

Get a mulimeter and measure the pd ( voltage across the battery ) make a note of it.

Start the vehicle ( if you can ) and take note of the pd ( voltage across the battery )

The difference is related to the current drawn by the battery. A small difference of say 2 volts means your battery is drawing current from the alternator thus pulling the alternator voltage down from about 16 - 17 volts to say 13.5 volts.

Someone here said to charge the battery via a charger for a few hours then give it a try - good idea . This will rule out the battery and starter motor + solenoid + wiring.

 

[solarman216]

Ok so had my starter reconditioned last week, but still shite at starting first thing!! Bought a new battery yesterday another £100 expecting her to fly into life this morning...err nope!! Sounds like something pulling juice out of battery and engine cranking very slowly!! Help :nenau

good starter, good battery, then this has to be a bad connection, check carefully the wire from the + battery to the starter terminal, and then check the - cable to the body and to the engine there has to be a poor joint some where, Rick

 

[richtheracer]

So charged battery and no joy! Put jump pack on and no joy really slow turning over. Checked all connections, earths etc no joy and no bad wires! Surely got to be starter again??? Battery is very strong and brand new , also tried the battery I took off which after charging is sitting at just under 14 volts, so dont think the battery was the problem in the first place. Started eventually with jump leads from car and battery pack charger thing attached but still didnt want to turn over very fast!! Now it has started it will go all day but sometimes turning over so slow you think theres no way it will start then springs into life!! :nenau

 

[Fez_uk]

Sounds to be the starter is duff, where did you get it from and how old is it?

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

From having a read through... is it related to the Cold Cranking Current of the battery, e.g., is it always on a cold morning?

To be honest, if you have checked all the wires etc, then it sounds like either the solenoid has dirty/bad connections inside, or the short wire that runs from the solenoid to the starter motor is either damaged or not connected properly. Sometimes you can see this as it is on the out side, other times, it is an internal connection.

The thing is, there is not a "Clutch" in a starter motor, just an elecro magnet that pulls a leaver, which engages the drive cog, and at the same time connects a couple of very high current terminals to switch on the starter motor. So if the mechanic says he changed the "Clutch" then he is BS'ing, and it sounds like it is the solenoid that is at fault.

Sounds like you may have to take it back.

 

[solarman216]

All pre engage starters have to have a clutch (one way device) or supposing you kept the starter key turned and revved the engine, starter would spin to destruction, one way clutch stops this, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

All pre engage starters have to have a clutch (one way device) or supposing you kept the starter key turned and revved the engine, starter would spin to destruction, one way clutch stops this, Rick

Interesting... The ones I have taken apart in the past are literally just a splined shaft with the starter cog able to slide up and down it. On the old Volvo 240 we have here, if you do keep the key turned once the car starts it makes an awful scream, so I guess that one has not got a clutch either.


I will bow to you better knowledge on later model ones though.:bow

 

[solarman216]

Interesting... The ones I have taken apart in the past are literally just a splined shaft with the starter cog able to slide up and down it. On the old Volvo 240 we have here, if you do keep the key turned once the car starts it makes an awful scream, so I guess that one has not got a clutch either.


I will bow to you better knowledge on later model ones though.:bow

easy to test one way you turn the cog it turns the armature, the other it turns easy on its own, they employ a tapper and roller design one way the roller runs free the other the roller runs into the tapper so locking up, on big truck starters they used to use a clutch as in multi plate drive clutch think this was to enable powerfull starter to still spin a bit if engine was sluggish to turn when cold rather than instantly lock up and burn out windings, do not know if it is the same today, Rick

 

[ssteve]

Interesting... The ones I have taken apart in the past are literally just a splined shaft with the starter cog able to slide up and down it. On the old Volvo 240 we have here, if you do keep the key turned once the car starts it makes an awful scream, so I guess that one has not got a clutch either.


I will bow to you better knowledge on later model ones though.:bow

yours has got a "bendix" you will be pleased to know, much easyier to repair.
ssteve

 

[ssteve]

thats a new one on me!!!!

ssteve

 

[solarman216]

thats a new one on me!!!!

ssteve

I worked for a firm in Shepherds Bush London soon after I left School, they refurbished starters, dynamos, etc from cars to trucks, and I remember the fitters using a long bar with weights on it to test the point the starter clutch would slip and these starters were fitted to the likes of Perkins 6,345 and RR Eagles, Rick

 

[ssteve]

I worked for a firm in Shepherds Bush London soon after I left School, they refurbished starters, dynamos, etc from cars to trucks, and I remember the fitters using a long bar with weights on it to test the point the starter clutch would slip and these starters were fitted to the likes of Perkins 6,345 and RR Eagles, Rick

would that not be to check torque of starter??

ssteve