Deleted account DD
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I dont know the area so is it safe to presume that this is "off piste" and is what I have mentioned above?
All Glass and non Glass members
- Thread starter nejones
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Help Support Nissan 4x4 Owners Club Forum:
extreme-4x4
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so are we coming to your meeting with the plod.... or should we arrange our own meeting to discuss the state that the non locals are leaving our countryside in
after all we live here, not just turn up here cos their lanes are closed
and we pay council tax to maintain it
after all we live here, not just turn up here cos their lanes are closed
and we pay council tax to maintain it
lacroupade
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Deleted account DD
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Border patrols it is then....
All for it, then if I stray I'll be turned back ................. pheww.
I can stay around here to get rained on :lol or have a pub go quiet when they hear my English accent
T'was scary :lol
Terranosaurus
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As far as I am aware it is not Nathan's meet with plod for him to invite anyone, he was quoting the local glass rep's post on another forum (though its not clear admittedly from his post, though it is signed John). At the moment he does not seem to be asking for any assistance but will be in the future.
nejones
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Just repeating my earlier post.
Thought I'd made things clear here, maybe not.
Anyway going o.t here but wheres my invite Col.
Dont wonna miss out on anything that 'craig' might wnat to know about
extreme-4x4
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that's all very nice... but the point everyone is missing is, this stuff does happen, and will continue to happen unless changes are made and ideas put forward.
now im not a glass member and don't really have any interest in it either. but if these people who want to to do good if they don't start to include the others / non class or crag or whatever do good community they come from.
then they are wasting everybody's time and effort. because you will still get someone who sees a bit of mud as "more fun than the lane" and its all back to how it is now
personally i think these clubs associations are not helping themselves by excluding non members
my vote is on blocking the lanes or chaining the gates generally be a pain in the councils arses, but that i guess is not the popular plan of action
if someone (john) is going to stand up in front of the authorities and say this is what we all plan to do. on everyones behalf (mine included) dont you think they should at least listen to my views
who the hell do they think they are speeking for me , i didnt vote for them. christ they might even be a rambler out to got all lanes closed to traffic
its not john's lane is mine too i have as much right to it as him or you or anyone.
who made them god. what happened to democracy
someone should have the balls to stand up to them? maybe john is the one.
but unless he tells us what his plans are and why we should stand behind him.
then its just another load of meaning less garbage and a waste of time
and im bloody sick of all this crap about you cant do this or cant do that
now im not a glass member and don't really have any interest in it either. but if these people who want to to do good if they don't start to include the others / non class or crag or whatever do good community they come from.
then they are wasting everybody's time and effort. because you will still get someone who sees a bit of mud as "more fun than the lane" and its all back to how it is now
personally i think these clubs associations are not helping themselves by excluding non members
my vote is on blocking the lanes or chaining the gates generally be a pain in the councils arses, but that i guess is not the popular plan of action
if someone (john) is going to stand up in front of the authorities and say this is what we all plan to do. on everyones behalf (mine included) dont you think they should at least listen to my views
who the hell do they think they are speeking for me , i didnt vote for them. christ they might even be a rambler out to got all lanes closed to traffic
its not john's lane is mine too i have as much right to it as him or you or anyone.
who made them god. what happened to democracy
someone should have the balls to stand up to them? maybe john is the one.
but unless he tells us what his plans are and why we should stand behind him.
then its just another load of meaning less garbage and a waste of time
and im bloody sick of all this crap about you cant do this or cant do that
Terranosaurus
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Its up to the Police, landowners, local authorities etc to decide what to do, John is simply going up there with an officer to make them properly aware of what the problem is from a 4x4 perspective, you can bet your bottom dollar that they have already heard the ramblers side 1000 times already.
If the eeting were an open house it would be come a free for all and nothing would be acheived, open meetings are going to follow.
Have a look at the GLEAM website and see what we mean about the anti's.
Or have a read of their newsletter - unfortunately its too big to attach but I can email you it.
If the eeting were an open house it would be come a free for all and nothing would be acheived, open meetings are going to follow.
Have a look at the GLEAM website and see what we mean about the anti's.
Or have a read of their newsletter - unfortunately its too big to attach but I can email you it.
nejones
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You cant have it all ways Col.
You're not a GLASS member, neither am I.
You have no interest in being one and so I presume you mean no interest in membership of any of the organizations fighting to protect our interests, and yet you expect to be involved in things like this.
Seems contradictory to me.
Yet the message I posted was copied from a public forum for your information. It was originally posted on Landyzone for the benefit of all GLASS members or not. I haven't looked on the GLASS website but my guess is there will be info so that you can contact a rep to put your points of view across if you really want to.
Stop moaning about what other people are doing/not doing to protect the lanes if you aren't willing to get involved and do things yourself.
Still aint had my invite:sly
You're not a GLASS member, neither am I.
You have no interest in being one and so I presume you mean no interest in membership of any of the organizations fighting to protect our interests, and yet you expect to be involved in things like this.
Seems contradictory to me.
Yet the message I posted was copied from a public forum for your information. It was originally posted on Landyzone for the benefit of all GLASS members or not. I haven't looked on the GLASS website but my guess is there will be info so that you can contact a rep to put your points of view across if you really want to.
Stop moaning about what other people are doing/not doing to protect the lanes if you aren't willing to get involved and do things yourself.
Still aint had my invite:sly
extreme-4x4
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nath . i was asked to re open one of my social groups by one member who thought it would be a good place to discuss things that some might find offensive or rude jokes and pics.
i have asked bat for a more relaxed pub area something more like the angel rather than a harvester. but no reply yet
i shouldn't think we will be discussing the things that glass or crag will need to know about... but then again they seem to discuss things that concern how im going to behave. but they have not asked to represent me . until they do ask to represent and the non members. all they will have is a small part of the 4x4 community behind them. and they need everyone working together
so far we have a video of pete on a beach from when the new site started. he dont want it on full view.... maybe he is shy, :nenau
i have been flirting with willow a bit more, but thats it really. i had hoped to discuss other fueling options at some point
but didnt want to run the risk of discussing that on main site either ( for obvious reasons)
i have asked bat for a more relaxed pub area something more like the angel rather than a harvester. but no reply yet
i shouldn't think we will be discussing the things that glass or crag will need to know about... but then again they seem to discuss things that concern how im going to behave. but they have not asked to represent me . until they do ask to represent and the non members. all they will have is a small part of the 4x4 community behind them. and they need everyone working together
so far we have a video of pete on a beach from when the new site started. he dont want it on full view.... maybe he is shy, :nenau
i have been flirting with willow a bit more, but thats it really. i had hoped to discuss other fueling options at some point
but didnt want to run the risk of discussing that on main site either ( for obvious reasons)
lacroupade
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Doesn't make great reading does it.
Funny how THEIR lawful rights seem to override anyone elses.
nejones
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No worries Colin. I dont intend to renew my membership on here anyway. It aint like it used to be.
Theres one thing for sure though mate. GLASS & CRAG and others do more to keep the lanes open than many appreciate. And they do that for all users not just the members. Good aint it.
If you want to be pro active/be heard/make a difference then the best way is to throw your support behind one of the user groups. I aint bothered which one, just do it
Theres one thing for sure though mate. GLASS & CRAG and others do more to keep the lanes open than many appreciate. And they do that for all users not just the members. Good aint it.
If you want to be pro active/be heard/make a difference then the best way is to throw your support behind one of the user groups. I aint bothered which one, just do it
extreme-4x4
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see thats just it.
any governing body , in a democracy has to stand up and say ok here is the problem the lanes are getting damaged and the councils are closing them
then they put forward their proposals to fix the problem. we dont know johns proposal he has not done any of this.
mine if i was standing would be one way only system, block off shortcuts or other non official routes , signage and a clear list of rules for sensible greenlaning . posted on all sites and mags. encourage councils to provide pay and play sites or set aside areas for kids on bikes and quads etc.
to prevent overload on the lanes that are still open or not closed for some mountain bike route
then when everyone has been given their proposals the people should have the choice to vote on who is to represent them
unless everyone is behind you ...... you have lost before you begin
its all well and good john standing up but whats his proposal.
why should i pay to join to give him my views... its in his interest
any governing body , in a democracy has to stand up and say ok here is the problem the lanes are getting damaged and the councils are closing them
then they put forward their proposals to fix the problem. we dont know johns proposal he has not done any of this.
mine if i was standing would be one way only system, block off shortcuts or other non official routes , signage and a clear list of rules for sensible greenlaning . posted on all sites and mags. encourage councils to provide pay and play sites or set aside areas for kids on bikes and quads etc.
to prevent overload on the lanes that are still open or not closed for some mountain bike route
then when everyone has been given their proposals the people should have the choice to vote on who is to represent them
unless everyone is behind you ...... you have lost before you begin
its all well and good john standing up but whats his proposal.
why should i pay to join to give him my views... its in his interest
lacroupade
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Just my four pence worth.
1. I think this is a difficult one; this is a fairly remote track and difficult to police (whatever that might mean).....plus its not that widely used by non-vehicular traffic...I suspect its one of a few routes where majority MPV use could be proven.
2. But it also means that the easiest option open to the council, once attention has been drawn to the state of a few sections where damage has been caused, is to close the route altogether.....as I've said before, it would be a major engineering undertaking to restore Strata to useable form by all types of traffic and the council probably could not afford to fund it....that also probably makes it prohibitive for CRAG or any privateers to do so.
3. My only concern about the proposed meeting with the police was knowing the approach thats being taken because I'm not clear what the objectives really are. I don't favour the idea of permits, for example, because in this case it won't stop anything.....the biggest problem with this track is its remoteness and length.....that means that the people best placed to police it are its users, who ought to feel free to report any abuse they see. If the police then help by acting on such reports, and there is some publicity, then perhaps people will pay more attention....trouble is that this gives the likes of GLEAM more ammo, plus the publicity may not reach the likes of those who drive from far away (the gang of bikers we bumped into last time having a bit of a mental were from Brum for example).
4. If it helped (and I think it would) I for one would be more than happy to spend the odd day up there putting up a few laminated notices pleading for users to exercise care and report any abuse they see....that might help with some cred as far as the police are concerned. And maybe handing out flyers at either end......
5. I also know that TW would be more than happy to come up and help with some repair work and discrete route signing as well. As Colin has said, we do, after all, contribute financially to its 'upkeep' and policing already.
6. Just going back to the permit issue for a minute, I'd hate to see some elitist system where only those 'in the know' were able to apply for a limited number of passes.....I'd prefer initiatives like limiting numbers within a convoy, or maybe having a local CRAG member or representative sign off permit holders, or even a general chargeable permit, like a fishing licence, that has to be displayed and can be withdrawn temporarily or permanently if abuse occurs.
Just thoughts and ideas, but as Colin says, how do we ensure that 'John' is made aware of such things? especially about 4/5 above?
1. I think this is a difficult one; this is a fairly remote track and difficult to police (whatever that might mean).....plus its not that widely used by non-vehicular traffic...I suspect its one of a few routes where majority MPV use could be proven.
2. But it also means that the easiest option open to the council, once attention has been drawn to the state of a few sections where damage has been caused, is to close the route altogether.....as I've said before, it would be a major engineering undertaking to restore Strata to useable form by all types of traffic and the council probably could not afford to fund it....that also probably makes it prohibitive for CRAG or any privateers to do so.
3. My only concern about the proposed meeting with the police was knowing the approach thats being taken because I'm not clear what the objectives really are. I don't favour the idea of permits, for example, because in this case it won't stop anything.....the biggest problem with this track is its remoteness and length.....that means that the people best placed to police it are its users, who ought to feel free to report any abuse they see. If the police then help by acting on such reports, and there is some publicity, then perhaps people will pay more attention....trouble is that this gives the likes of GLEAM more ammo, plus the publicity may not reach the likes of those who drive from far away (the gang of bikers we bumped into last time having a bit of a mental were from Brum for example).
4. If it helped (and I think it would) I for one would be more than happy to spend the odd day up there putting up a few laminated notices pleading for users to exercise care and report any abuse they see....that might help with some cred as far as the police are concerned. And maybe handing out flyers at either end......
5. I also know that TW would be more than happy to come up and help with some repair work and discrete route signing as well. As Colin has said, we do, after all, contribute financially to its 'upkeep' and policing already.
6. Just going back to the permit issue for a minute, I'd hate to see some elitist system where only those 'in the know' were able to apply for a limited number of passes.....I'd prefer initiatives like limiting numbers within a convoy, or maybe having a local CRAG member or representative sign off permit holders, or even a general chargeable permit, like a fishing licence, that has to be displayed and can be withdrawn temporarily or permanently if abuse occurs.
Just thoughts and ideas, but as Colin says, how do we ensure that 'John' is made aware of such things? especially about 4/5 above?
nejones
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You need to look at the websites for Glass and Crag, Lara, and see if what they offer meets your criteria for support. Gets your vote.
If not start an organization yourself, I'm sure you'll get at least 10 members.
We're going round in circles here Colin and I'm feelin sick.
Debate it amongst your private group. Craig dont care. :doh
If not start an organization yourself, I'm sure you'll get at least 10 members.
We're going round in circles here Colin and I'm feelin sick.
Debate it amongst your private group. Craig dont care. :doh
Deleted account DD
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Good luck with the meeting if you go. i dont think non members should be excluded.
One thing to bear in mind though. If the tracks are getting trashed they will probably be easily justified in closing them to all but essential access never mind the off piste stuff.
The logic behind that is quite simply that once it is no longer economically viable or/and in the public interest to maintain in a "safe" condition they can close it on H&S grounds.
The owner has a liability to anticipate the hazards and reduce the risk from those hazards.
If it ticks the boxes closure will be the option to do that so really you dont have a particularly big stick to hit them with.
It is unlikely that police or council wardens will have the resources to police the area in any case to a large extent, steel barriers and locks would.
One thing to bear in mind though. If the tracks are getting trashed they will probably be easily justified in closing them to all but essential access never mind the off piste stuff.
The logic behind that is quite simply that once it is no longer economically viable or/and in the public interest to maintain in a "safe" condition they can close it on H&S grounds.
The owner has a liability to anticipate the hazards and reduce the risk from those hazards.
If it ticks the boxes closure will be the option to do that so really you dont have a particularly big stick to hit them with.
It is unlikely that police or council wardens will have the resources to police the area in any case to a large extent, steel barriers and locks would.
extreme-4x4
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but i only want to know what john is going to say on my behalf as a user of the lane
why cant anyone just inform us of what his plan is
is it really worth arguing or falling out or not renewing here just cos john wont speak to the people...
how can we follow if he's not leading
the circles is caused by lack of information for everyone
why cant anyone just inform us of what his plan is
is it really worth arguing or falling out or not renewing here just cos john wont speak to the people...
how can we follow if he's not leading
the circles is caused by lack of information for everyone
Deleted Member S
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Have you tried to contact this person Extreme ? most sites have a contact us section:augie
Deleted account DD
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Or contact the landowner or cops yourself to see whats what not being funny but they too may appreciate a third party coming in on the show.
not being funny but they too may appreciate a third party coming in on the show.
nejones
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Some very valid points ther Dave made in a constructive manner.
SF is about 7 miles long so is a nightmare in terms of policing and repairing.
The users of the lane need to police it as suggested, but when they point out where people have gone wrong, either deliberately or otherwise, they come in for flak.
CRAG would rather tyr and maintain a lane with volunteer resources that all councils are required to use by law than see a lane closed or tro'd.
An example is Bush Farm in Shropshire which this year will recieve 300 ton of stone to fill the ruts paid for by Shrops cc but the manpower will be voluntarily. Supplied by CRAG but could include Glass members/ non Glass members, non Crag members.
Anyone here want to join in?
As soon as I have the dates I'll let you all know.
SF is about 7 miles long so is a nightmare in terms of policing and repairing.
The users of the lane need to police it as suggested, but when they point out where people have gone wrong, either deliberately or otherwise, they come in for flak.
CRAG would rather tyr and maintain a lane with volunteer resources that all councils are required to use by law than see a lane closed or tro'd.
An example is Bush Farm in Shropshire which this year will recieve 300 ton of stone to fill the ruts paid for by Shrops cc but the manpower will be voluntarily. Supplied by CRAG but could include Glass members/ non Glass members, non Crag members.
Anyone here want to join in?
As soon as I have the dates I'll let you all know.
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