Winter woes/Dirty Diesel??

[centurion]

Hi all,

2001 TDI short w/base

The aggravation continues most of my previous probs re poor heater and misfire after start up in extreme cold seem to have been solved or just gone away on their own (as if).

It has now developed the following problem which I must admit it had about 18 months ago but went away itself.

Start up idle fine drive off sometimes ok but now it feels as if its suffering fuel starvation the engime idles but will not rev or revs and has no power. If switched off and restarted it is sometimes ok and continues to run ok. Other times it goes back to the above. it will idle but not rev etc.

This all came on after crossing some very deep ruts on our lane and the vehicle was bounced about a lot. Could it be dirt stirred up off the bottom of the tank??

I Have replaced the fuel filter and MAF but prob continues. Does this model have a mini filter if soo will it do it any harm to take it out and chuck it. also. My previous TDI a 1997 had a drain plug in the corner of the tank but this one doesnt. Is it a tank off job to clean it/drain it out. I had thought about trying to syphon the sh one t off the bottom of the tank.

Regards Centurion

PS to add to my troubles I also have the flu thing but I didnt catch it from the other thread. Just to make them all feel better its been coming and going since 2008

 

[harlowmaverick]

sounds like a dirty mini filter on the pump

 

[centurion]

sounds like a dirty mini filter on the pump

Thanks but do the later ones have an mini filter??

Centurion

 

[lacroupade]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo they don't as far as I know.

The online manual thats always linked to should be 100% accurate for your truck as its a 2002 print IIRC...so be guided by that.

BUT....dodgy filters are an issue we see frequently. What make is it, where did you source it and how much was it? Might be worth changing again...someone has even recently reported a Milners-sourced filter as starting to disintegrate not long after being fitted, so I'd try a new dealer replacement before doing anything else.

 

[JimmyJaffa]

When you say it wont rev do you mean you have no response at all from the throttle? Only i had this problem and it turned out to be ignition switch not quite returning to the ignition postion after starting.i would have to turn key back a little then the throttle became responsive again.when this hapens the radio and heater dont work either unil key turnded, just a thought.

 

[ChefClay]

Noooooooooooooooooooooo they don't as far as I know.

The online manual thats always linked to should be 100% accurate for your truck as its a 2002 print IIRC...so be guided by that.

BUT....dodgy filters are an issue we see frequently. What make is it, where did you source it and how much was it? Might be worth changing again...someone has even recently reported a Milners-sourced filter as starting to disintegrate not long after being fitted, so I'd try a new dealer replacement before doing anything else.

Whilst this topic is still active, does anyone know if my 'P' reg Ford Maverick, 2.7 diesel, LWB, would have a mini filter? As some members may be aware, I have had a similar problem as 'Centurion'. How often would you recommend changing the other filters?
Cheers - Paul

 

[centurion]

Thanks for all of the replies. Where do I find the online manual referred too??. I might just take the pump union off to have a look anyway. Thefuel filter is a Fram and I only put it on yesterday. I had ignition key probs with my 97 but not with this one but anythings worth a try. I am going to have the tank off and cleaned out as you can see from my previous there is no drain plug and this is progress.

I started as a Terrano owner with an N reg TD which was a lot easier probably because it was simples and had useful things like a waterin the fuel filter warning and a low washer bottle warning which are not fitted to this later item.

Regards
Centurion

 

[matstar89]

I have had very similar symptoms recently, turned out to be rotton fuel pipes which were sucking in air

 

[briggie]

Thanks for all of the replies. Where do I find the online manual referred too??. I might just take the pump union off to have a look anyway. Thefuel filter is a Fram and I only put it on yesterday. I had ignition key probs with my 97 but not with this one but anythings worth a try. I am going to have the tank off and cleaned out as you can see from my previous there is no drain plug and this is progress.

I started as a Terrano owner with an N reg TD which was a lot easier probably because it was simples and had useful things like a waterin the fuel filter warning and a low washer bottle warning which are not fitted to this later item.

Regards
Centurion

http://bebrs.pie-dabas.net/Webs/Terrano/R20/fwd.pdf

 

[centurion]

http://bebrs.pie-dabas.net/Webs/Terrano/R20/fwd.pdf

Thanks for that, I have checked the tank etc and all is clean. The culprit is now supected to be the accelerator pedal position sensor. I will do the reset thing so it knows where idle is meant o be and spray everything with WD and see what happens.

If on the black side the sensor is goosed are replacements available at not stupid money and where.

Regards C enturion

 

[rayf3262]

Thanks for that, I have checked the tank etc and all is clean. The culprit is now supected to be the accelerator pedal position sensor. I will do the reset thing so it knows where idle is meant o be and spray everything with WD and see what happens.

If on the black side the sensor is goosed are replacements available at not stupid money and where.

Regards C enturion

There are 2 sensors on the throttle, a positional sensor (TPS) that tells the ECM the position of the throttle and a switch that establishes idle conditions when your foot is OFF the throttle.
The (TPS) throttle position sensor should have NO effect when idling.
It would be worth checking for consistent operation of the switch, it or it's wiring may be intermittent...
ref manual EC-369

 

[centurion]

Thanks for the manual link.

The problem continues but now slightly different. I have checked the connections to the accelerator pedal position switch and pulled the connector apart and wd 40 it and all the connectors I can see under the bonnet.

The following is now happening start up from cold having stood overnight fine goes to a fast idle which after a few seconds drops to normal idle. Drive off almost immediately is ok too. I then stopped for about 5/10 mins with the engine idling go to drive off and it wont rev it just idles or occasionally revs a little but with no power.

Switch off the motor and restart off we go pulls like a train and no more trouble other than an occasional hic about 1500 revs which eventually disappears as well.

Drive about 20 miles no probs park up and leave it for about 45 mins come back and it starts and runs ok.

The Engine management light never shows other than the normal light up when switching on and starting up

Any ideas. I was thinking about replacing the accelerator sensor thing with a second hand one if I can find one to see if the problem goes away.

Regards
Centurion

 

[rayf3262]

Thanks for the manual link.

The problem continues but now slightly different. I have checked the connections to the accelerator pedal position switch and pulled the connector apart and wd 40 it and all the connectors I can see under the bonnet.

The following is now happening start up from cold having stood overnight fine goes to a fast idle which after a few seconds drops to normal idle. Drive off almost immediately is ok too. I then stopped for about 5/10 mins with the engine idling go to drive off and it wont rev it just idles or occasionally revs a little but with no power.

Switch off the motor and restart off we go pulls like a train and no more trouble other than an occasional hic about 1500 revs which eventually disappears as well.

Drive about 20 miles no probs park up and leave it for about 45 mins come back and it starts and runs ok.

The Engine management light never shows other than the normal light up when switching on and starting up

Any ideas. I was thinking about replacing the accelerator sensor thing with a second hand one if I can find one to see if the problem goes away.

Regards
Centurion

This will be a pain, but it's the only way to be sure without a diag connection to view the live sensor data the ECU sees.

So, armed with a DVM check:

1st
You need to be 100% sure the switch is working as it should.
Check betwen pin 435 and ground at ECU for transition between 0V & 5V when acc pedal is moved from rest, particularly when the fault is apparent. Just because it works once does not mean it will always do so!

2nd
by all means check that the output of the TPS swings between approximately 0V & 5V.
This check should be done between ground & pin 434 on ECU.

 

[Timbo_1975]

Suggest you have a look at the brake pedal switch and/or the pedal return spring.

 

[centurion]

thanks for that and I know that with electronics all this stuff may be connected but why the brake pedal switch ?? or am I missing something obvious

Regards
Centurion

 

[danielj]

Had a problem over the past year with some of the same things happening as you are having. Changed the fuel filter and gave a good cleaning to the filter housing (especially the white bit that threads in to the bottom of the filter) and it seems to have solved the problem.

 

[rayf3262]

thanks for that and I know that with electronics all this stuff may be connected but why the brake pedal switch ?? or am I missing something obvious

Regards
Centurion

The ECU will "know" when the brake pedal is applied and reduce the fueling. Although I believe this may only apply while the vehicle is moving.
From the manual EC-400 " In case the accelerator pedal does not return to the idle position the driver will react by pressing the brake. In this situation the ECM will disregard the TPS and bring the speed back to 1200 RPM.
Given what you said earlier about bouncing down a rutted track.... all points to the possibility of a duff connection somewhere..

 

[centurion]

Thanks for the explanation but on the plus side this doesnt appear to be the problem. However it has now settled down to the following similar to before ish.

Start up drive off fine as the engine appears to reach operating temp the fuel starvation begins will idle but not rev or pull. Switch off restart and all is well for the rest of the day. Could it be an engine temp sensor malfunction but there again that wouldnt account for the running ok after restart. On the good side it is driveable once you understand what to do but it obviously isnt cured.

Regards
Centurion

 

[felixthelogchopper]

Got a similar situation with mine re driveability but not symptoms, suspecting the mini-filter (if my Tdi has one) but can't do a lot about it at the moment. Just got to adapt my driving until I can do something about it.

 

[Timbo_1975]

Thanks for the explanation but on the plus side this doesnt appear to be the problem. However it has now settled down to the following similar to before ish.

Start up drive off fine as the engine appears to reach operating temp the fuel starvation begins will idle but not rev or pull. Switch off restart and all is well for the rest of the day. Could it be an engine temp sensor malfunction but there again that wouldnt account for the running ok after restart. On the good side it is driveable once you understand what to do but it obviously isnt cured.

Regards
Centurion

Are you absolutely sure the BPS is not sticking, and is correctly in place?? you could try popping the plug off and bridging the two relevant pins (BPS switch is normally closed)

We could all suggest 'try this, try that' and deliberate ad-infinitum, but the only real way forwards for you after checking the obvious is to get in touch with someone with a Consult, pop it into live mode, and then fire it up from cold and observe what the ECU is seeing. Will be dead obvious where the fault lies.