What do you think of this?

[Liam]

Teacher Sacked Over Prayer Offer For Pupil


2:18pm UK, Sunday December 20, 2009
Katie Cassidy, Sky News Online
A teacher who was sacked after offering to pray for a sick student says she has been treated like a criminal.

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Olive Jones with her son James after his return from Afghanistan
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Olive Jones was dismissed from her job as a home-visit teacher after she spoke about her faith with a girl's mother.
The maths teacher gives lessons to children who are too ill to attend school.
When the girl did not feel up to the November 25 visit, Mrs Jones spoke to her mother over a cup of tea and asked whether she could say a prayer.
The teacher - a mother of two herself - said when the woman told her the family were not believers, she did not go ahead.
But Mrs Jones was later let go after the mother complained the teacher's comments had distressed her and her child.
The Oak Hill Short Stay School and Tuition Service in Nailsea, North Somerset told the teacher that sharing her faith with a child could be deemed to be bullying.
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It is like a black mark against my name and character when it comes to getting a reference for another job, just because I shared my testimony - as if I committed a criminal act.
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<cite> Olive Jones </cite>
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Mrs Jones, who's youngest son has served in Afghanistan, said she simply wanted to encourage prayer - not force it down the family's throat.
"If I had done something criminal, I believe the reaction would have been the same," said the 54-year-old from Weston-super-Mare.
"It is like a black mark against my name and character when it comes to getting a reference for another job, just because I shared my testimony - as if I committed a criminal act.
"It was only when I mentioned prayer that the mother said I do not want prayer, we do not believe, so I did not go ahead."
Mrs Jones, who has been teaching for more than 20 years, said after the shock of her dismissal wore off, she was hurt by the response.
"I'm not out to get anyone, I am angry at their interpretation of freedom of speech," she said.
"I am amazed that a country with such a strong Christian tradition has become a country where it is hard to speak about your faith."

 

[jims-terrano]

You'd be surprised about the do's and don'ts in schools, from either regulations and parents worried about the slightest thing. Peoples faith plays a part in this but also people just being worried for unknown reasons.

Although I have every sympathy for her and the fact this country is pandering to the wims of every individual or group of people does not help. However as a trained teacher she should have known better, it's like a lot of things these days you have to keep your gob shut for fear of someone moaning at you. Perhaps both the teacher and parents could of handled the situation better but as a parent if one of my children were ill I may not be thinking straight either. From the news bulletin I saw last night the teacher has had a similar problem before.

Jim T

 

[lacroupade]

You'd be surprised about the do's and don'ts in schools, from either regulations and parents worried about the slightest thing. Peoples faith plays a part in this but also people just being worried for unknown reasons.

Although I have every sympathy for her and the fact this country is pandering to the wims of every individual or group of people does not help. However as a trained teacher she should have known better, it's like a lot of things these days you have to keep your gob shut for fear of someone moaning at you. Perhaps both the teacher and parents could of handled the situation better but as a parent if one of my children were ill I may not be thinking straight either. From the news bulletin I saw last night the teacher has had a similar problem before.

Jim T

Interesting one; and Jims last point kind of underlines it for me.

I know its tricky talking religion and politics but by the sound of it this woman is a bit of an evangeliser and thats the problem. If she is a believer (in whatever the hell is out there, because NOBODY actually knows do they!) then by all means pray to her god for the child in quiet, but theres no need to be punting her wares as it were.

If you have ever had contact with evangelical so-called 'christians' (because I can tell you they are about as christian as Attila the Hun) - and I have, having worked with a bunch of them for quite a while in the corporate area (and no I wasn't one!), you will know that they are trained to exploit weaknesses like people in distress or suffering problems. It makes me puke.

Of the 10-odd BACs (Born Again Christians) I worked with, every single one, without exception, had 'found Jesus' during a time of extreme personal trauma - nervous breakdown, divorce etc.. not because they were searching but because someone had exploited their situation.

And their belief in the scriptures is absolute but also very convenient for them - for example, when faced with justifying their action in telling their wives to bog off and mind their own business while they go out on the piss, its normal to quote biblical passages like "a nagging wife is like a dripping tap", or "its better to be on the roof of ones house than inside with a nagging wife".

They are more like Muslims than you would imagine........

So yes, I know a fair bit about these people and could bore you all day with examples of their hypocrisy - and with the greatest of respect to those of you who have faith, sadly I don't...but neither do I shove it down other peoples throats.

Happy Christmas and as DA always said, may your god go with you. :thumbs

 

[theron]

The BBC say that the teacher has been suspended while a complaint is being investigated. Not sure how Sky News interpreted that as being 'sacked'. Never let actual facts get in the way of a good outrage story...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8423265.stm

 

[Darwin]

Oddly enough a similar scenario has come up my children’s school

Obviously as in most schools there are multiple faiths, we have a scenario where parents of Muslim children are quite happy for them to sit in on ''other religions'' lessons but CofE and Catholics won’t let their children sit in on ''Muslim'' lessons

Basically the RE teacher covers a fair few religions so the kids understand about each other’s faiths , not a bad idea in my opinion.

People seem to think that the only ''mad bombers'' about are Muslims when there are quite a few other faiths that have done it before.

Incidentally the 1st ever confirmed religious suicide bomber was Jewish.

 

[lacroupade]

The BBC say that the teacher has been suspended while a complaint is being investigated. Not sure how Sky News interpreted that as being 'sacked'. Never let actual facts get in the way of a good outrage story...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8423265.stm

How bloody true is THAT!! :thumbs

Oddly enough a similar scenario has come up my children’s school

Obviously as in most schools there are multiple faiths, we have a scenario where parents of Muslim children are quite happy for them to sit in on ''other religions'' lessons but CofE and Catholics won’t let their children sit in on ''Muslim'' lessons

Basically the RE teacher covers a fair few religions so the kids understand about each other’s faiths , not a bad idea in my opinion.

People seem to think that the only ''mad bombers'' about are Muslims when there are quite a few other faiths that have done it before.

Incidentally the 1st ever confirmed religious suicide bomber was Jewish.

And ain't that the problem; its often because we don't understand other peoples beliefs that we either poo-poo them or think of them as weird - just take Catholics for example! (LOL that was just to wind Liam up LMAO!).... like I said, i've seen so-called christians who treat their women just as badly as we perceive other religions to. I'm not saying we have to accept people perspectives, religion is a deeply personal area, but understanding them is a start.

Heres an example..... my dimwit sister, I'm ashamed to say, was married to a Kurd, who clearly got his feet under the table to get a passport, which he did, then fekd off and divorced her. Weeks later his non-english speaking wife rolls up, has a baby in an NHS hospital at my expense (hubby is meanwhile working in an on-shore tax haven - a complex financial accounting device otherwise known technically as a kebab shop) and complains about the fact that she got sent to a cottage hospital where there was minimal pain relief....I still can't work out whether that was because she spoke no english, or just an act of divine retribution LOL.

Anyway, months later, my eldest daughter is at my sisters and the ex-husband and his Kurdish wife are on none of their regular visits (don't ask!) and my daughter, as kids do, gently rubs the babies head with her stockinged foot.

Hubby goes bonkers, yelling about how disrespectful it is in his country blah blah blah...wish I'd been there!

But the point is it illustrates what I'm saying perfectly - had he explained, we would at least have understood his concerns (even though he's in the First World now and not in a bloody goat shed anymore!).....I still wouldn't have given a flying f*ck, but at least I would have known why he was acting like a complete turd!

And I'm tolerant!.....Its no different to a brit wanting to drink scalding hot tea in Saudi Arabia at 4pm in 40C...twat! Leave your stupid practices at home where they belong!

I love these threads! :thumbs

 

[Liam]

Oh God,what have I started!!! Should have known Paully was about:doh:doh
I have a sister in law who is a Jehovah's Witness,she tried to "convert" my two when she used to mind them. Had them praying 3 or 4 times a day (they were about three and five at the time). Haven't really spoken to her since. I try to be tolerant of other peoples religions as it is a very personal thing and I like to think I respect their right to worship their own particular God. I am Catholic by birth but try to be christian in my dealings with people (don't always succeed), I don't have any love for pushy religions of any type but if curious about other faiths ,I will do my own finding out,thank you very much. If I don't understand someone's religion,it's because I'm not interested in finding out. Have to say on a personal level,most C of E people I have met have seemed to be more tolerant and Christian in their general behaviour than a lot of Catholics I know.

Incidentally,Paul,you are spot on with your assessment of the recruiting methods of some of these religions,my sis in law was unmarried,two kids,council estate,high unemployment area with a lot of social problems in the area. Local Catholic Church and priests did usual hand wringing and praying,Jehovah's ,Born Agains,Mormons etc. had a feeding frenzy and gained a lot of new members. Always the same methods,go to the high unemployment,social problem areas and recruit vulnerable people. I often wonder why the Catholic Church don't get the message,most of these people feel let down by society and with someone to listen and emphatise with them,might well be able to sort themselves out with a little guidance and encouragement.

 

[lacroupade]

I thought you started this thread just for me Liam??? :lol:lol

I have three kinds of entertainment when I'm bored that really cheer me up because they are monstrously hysterical!...

1. Any Nigerian or other African satellite channel, you know the ones with the woodentop actors and the overmodulated soundtrack - they really crease me up.

2. Any religious satellite channel, especially the bad American ones with really bad wigs!

3. Religious videos on Youtube, specifically the comments on them from all the 'believers'....just type in 'Jesus' and see what pops up!

I think the reason you find C of E folk more accommodating is because they don' take themselves seriously - except for high church and the happy-clappy tambourine brigade of course. I mean look at the logic - we used to belong to a church that the Irish in Eire and the UK love but is led by, ummm an Austrian fella who lives in his head office in, umm Italy...? But then our head honcho Henry decided we'd take our stumps and play somewhere else so he could get a divorce - I mean whats that all about???? :doh:doh

But if we were all the same wouldn't the world be a boring place! :thumbs

 

[Liam]

I thought you started this thread just for me Liam??? :lol:lol

Well,I thought with all the childbirth and ex-wife stuff you had recently,it might be an idea to get your thought processes back where they ought to be,like sorting out the the churches and other serious stuff. After all,can't have you wasting your talents changing nappies and breast feeding and going goo goo to some poor innocent child. There's a whole bunch of people on here who depend on you to keep them on the straight and narrow.:bow:bow:bow

 

[lacroupade]

Screech at you Liam, as my missus would say!

Look I'm going to show you what an evil little ba5tard I am.......this is clipped from the comments in a Youtube video I stalked last night - look what the bloke wrote back to me....nutter or wot???

And I even got a neg vote - what a result!!!!
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[supertaff]

Hey Paul, isn't that "Head Honcho Harry" a member of Team South East ??
Matt.

 

[tezzer]

definately a nut case, do you know him paul,???:lol:augie

 

[lacroupade]

Hey Paul, isn't that "Head Honcho Harry" a member of Team South East ??
Matt.

Got to be an Essex boy if you ask me Taff! LMAO

definately a nut case, do you know him paul,???:lol:augie

I think he's out of the Da Vinci Code or something by the sound of it????? :lol:lol

Thats got to be my new sig I think.

 

[danielj]

Interesting thread and interesting comments. Seems like I may be in a bit of a minority being a "Roman" Catholic and what would be considered a "traditional" or "conservative" one at that. Not proud of a lot of what has gone on in the Catholic Church especially of late but there is a destinction to be made between the messangers and the message. Can't personally see anything very much wrong with someone of faith saying they will pray for someone. In itself it is a gesture of kindness and compassion. I can accept the point about evangalisation of vulnerable people but have seen as much of that from non-religious people as from religious.

 

[lacroupade]

But I think to be fair Dan, with the exception of the odd academic like Prof whatever his name was, Dawkins was it?, most atheists/agnostics only respond when challenged - there are very few of them who actively evangelise their lack of belief, whereas too many religious folk think it their lot in life to treat us as if we are stupid and missing something.

Frankly we all had enough RE and so forth at school to have a clue what religion is about and therefore whether or not we want to be interested - I don't want people asking me if I want to be prayed for to be honest, any more than I want someone in tesco's car park coming up to me telling me I ought to be driving a Daewoo instead of a Terrano.

If I wanted to pray I'd go to church, but I don't, and that doesn't make me wrong, any more than being a church-goer makes you wrong. We all have our own views about life and its mysteries - the older I get the more convinced I get that our whole existence is all a bit too convenient for there not to have been some kind of, lets call it a 'helping hand'. But what that consisted of none of us know do we - fact. My father-in-law genuinely believes it was little green men, but hey, he's entitled cos theres nothing to contradict it.

Until 'god' taps me on the shoulder and says hello - and I don't mean in my head, anyone can claim that - then I don't have ANY evidence of his or her existence. But nor does anyone else, otherwise it would all have been over a long time ago. The bible is just a very old, cobbled-together but useful book of parables, and theres no physical evidence whatsoever, but because we are just insignificant, mortal beings with a tiny lifespan in the scheme of things, we are afraid, and we want something to believe in otherwise what the hell is it all about?

Its when I get BACs telling me that the earth is only 7000 years old and that fossils were 'put there by god to give man something to think about' that I get slightly goggle-eyed.....but if you are a true believer and take the bible for what it purports to be, thats what you believe.....you can't just take the bits that suit you.

And don't tell me to believe what a bunch of men in robes tells me I ought to be believing - what monopoly do they have exactly on the subject?

But at the end of the day, if it gets us all talking and learning a bit from each other and being better people as a result, well who really cares?

nd please don't take any offence will you dan; we often have these 'heart to hearts' and they are always pretty robust and frank, but we're still all mates! LOL :thumbs

 

[paulp]

teaching and religion

When i was at school you obeyed the queen and renounced the devil through Religous education no choice , well you did, do as you were told or get a clump. We said prayers in assembly.

My children have multi faiths taught at school, which I do not particularly like, but kinda understand as i do not follow religion.

The teacher meant well, and as was said before was a compassionate and kind gesture.

Sorry if our traditions offend, then they also have a choice, practice their own religion in their own countrty not ours and without the protection of our troops.

who we all im sure hope if not pray in the strictest term for a safe return of all our troops.

paulp

 

[Liam]

Interesting thread and interesting comments. Seems like I may be in a bit of a minority being a "Roman" Catholic and what would be considered a "traditional" or "conservative" one at that. Not proud of a lot of what has gone on in the Catholic Church especially of late but there is a destinction to be made between the messangers and the message. Can't personally see anything very much wrong with someone of faith saying they will pray for someone. In itself it is a gesture of kindness and compassion. I can accept the point about evangalisation of vulnerable people but have seen as much of that from non-religious people as from religious.

Don't think you are in a minority,danielj. As I said I try to be Christian and see the good in people most of the time. I still haven't gotten over the fact that when I went to Galway to the youth mass during John Paul 2's visit to Ireland,Bishop Eamon Casey and Fr Michael Cleary were both on the altar with the Pope. Both since found to have kids at that time. I suppose I was very naive and was still in awe of the clergy back then. My fault for being silly but since then I have grown up a little and don't have a lot of faith in the messengers,they all seem to have feet of clay. Can't speak for how it is to be Roman Catholic in the UK but in Ireland when I was growing up it was very strict as the schools were (and many still are) controlled by the clergy. It would take forever to explain what it was like. Anyway, I'm sorry if anything I said offended you,certainly not my intention to offend anyone on here.

 

[lacroupade]

Ditto! I just enjoy the craic. :thumbs

 

[lacroupade]

Don't think you are in a minority,danielj. As I said I try to be Christian and see the good in people most of the time. I still haven't gotten over the fact that when I went to Galway to the youth mass during John Paul 2's visit to Ireland,Bishop Eamon Casey and Fr Michael Cleary were both on the altar with the Pope. Both since found to have kids at that time. I suppose I was very naive and was still in awe of the clergy back then. My fault for being silly but since then I have grown up a little and don't have a lot of faith in the messengers,they all seem to have feet of clay. Can't speak for how it is to be Roman Catholic in the UK but in Ireland when I was growing up it was very strict as the schools were (and many still are) controlled by the clergy. It would take forever to explain what it was like. Anyway, I'm sorry if anything I said offended you,certainly not my intention to offend anyone on here.

But two things Liam, firstly I wonder who decided that priests had to be celibate - as we have seen all too often it can lead to serious problems.

Secondly, I'm not quite sure I quite believe you buggers!

As you know, I spent quite a few years travelling to Limerick with a former g/f and was often dragged to mass by her aunt, despite being a prot, and I was usually the only bloke in there!!! The men all used to sit around the gate chewing the fat and smoking until it was all over!

Now I'm only ribbing you as you know by now, but thats country church for you!

 

[Liam]

But two things Liam, firstly I wonder who decided that priests had to be celibate - as we have seen all too often it can lead to serious problems.

Secondly, I'm not quite sure I quite believe you buggers!

As you know, I spent quite a few years travelling to Limerick with a former g/f and was often dragged to mass by her aunt, despite being a prot, and I was usually the only bloke in there!!! The men all used to sit around the gate chewing the fat and smoking until it was all over!

Now I'm only ribbing you as you know by now, but thats country church for you!

Disgraceful!! You mean the men stood outside the church smoking and talking without a drink in their hands?