Toilet lifespan ?

[macabethiel]

Thirteen years ago when I retired I decided to modernise our bathroom as it had a now unfashionably Pink Suite with a cast iron bath.

I fitted a nice White Italian Combination Bath & Shower, new UK sourced sink & modern close coupled toilet of unknown origin.

After having a leaking isolation valve to the toilet last year once again some brown stains appeared on the ceiling of our lounge so on Friday I shot upstairs to find the flexi-hose to the toilet from the previously replaced isolation valve to be wet. Switching off the water mains did not stop the water flow so I flushed the toilet and siphoned out the water remaining in the flush tank.

I investigated the cause of the leak and found that the long bolts between the toilet pan and the flush tank/cistern or whatever it is called had rusted through and water was leaking between the joint and coming out at the back near where the water valve feed enters the cistern.

After a brief one way discussion the wife insisted we have a new toilet and not to repair the old one as this would be much quicker and the old toilet was obviously a flawed design. I fitted a new toilet on Friday afternoon made by "Ideal" a UK firm I think and all is well. What I found was that the two halves of the new toilet have a very similar but not identical design and that the bolts and washers that hold it together are not stainless steel even though they are immersed in water in the cistern and subject to condensation underneath. Clearly in another 10-15 years it will fail for the same reason.

To slow down this rusting process I have painted the two bolt heads in the cistern with Hammerite Paint. Then using two plastic milk bottle caps filled with silicone sealant I have capped the bolts and rubber sealing washers from inside as if sealing a leaking North Sea Pipeline. The caps have stuck to the floor of the cistern keeping out water and air!

Had I been able to quickly source some stainless steel bolts of the right diameter etc I would have done but this should do the trick.

 

[solarman216]

Fixings that go through the bottom of the cistern should be stainless together with a stainless washer at least the size of the rubber washer, I am very surprised that Ideal supplied other than stainless, was this a packaged and still sealed unit, if it had been opened then that could explain it, you could have picked up a cistern/pan coupling set from any plumbers merchant, the two basic types are what you have and the metal plate type that is held by the flush assembly large nut, these are usually galvanized, Rick

 

[macabethiel]

Fixings that go through the bottom of the cistern should be stainless together with a stainless washer at least the size of the rubber washer, I am very surprised that Ideal supplied other than stainless, was this a packaged and still sealed unit, if it had been opened then that could explain it, you could have picked up a cistern/pan coupling set from any plumbers merchant, the two basic types are what you have and the metal plate type that is held by the flush assembly large nut, these are usually galvanized, Rick

Yes it was a sealed box and sealed bag inside. The problem I had with fitting an after market kit aside from the Wifely Decree was that the rubber bits and the holes in the ceramic pot were of foreign design and size. I have fitted kits as you describe previously at work and they have been fine. However a leak in a ground floor toilet at my workplace onto a concrete floor is a minor issue. Not so with our upstairs bathroom partly above our lounge!

As a single man I would have risked a repair as a married man I can't afford to be single again! lol

If it wasn't so bulky I would keep the old one as a spare but I might not live long enough to ever need it as at 67 yrs 11 months I will be 80 when this might become a possibility! Hence the OTT home made capping kit.

 

[solarman216]

nothing wrong with your thinking, and your ott job on the new one is good, but one has to wonder after seeing Fake Britain on the box as to how far fake goods are entering our market, Fake Ideal Standard WCs with sub standard bolts, one has to wonder, Rick

 

[jims-terrano]

Surely the ceramic parts will last indefinitely unless actually damaged. However cheaply made units that are badly made may not mate up together very well perhaps.
Think you've done the right thing with your belt n braces attitude and sealing the tops of the bolts.

 

[macabethiel]

nothing wrong with your thinking, and your ott job on the new one is good, but one has to wonder after seeing Fake Britain on the box as to how far fake goods are entering our market, Fake Ideal Standard WCs with sub standard bolts, one has to wonder, Rick

You never know I bought it from local builders merchants that was Lakes for years and was taken over by Buildbase. Might be Ideal sourcing internal components on the cheap from China to stay competitive or just fake!

 

[solarman216]

I have been in the plumbing/building game for more than 30 years, and have to say that although there as so called British Standards (BS) that are supposed to be complied with, most that I see now clearly cannot do so, so where are the regulators that are there to check that a supplier only stocks BS approved goods, well it is all down to the shit EU, we have to sell what they tell us, but our systems are very different, gravity hot water is still predominant in the UK yet we are inundated with cheap crap single hole sink and basin taps, what do these have in common, very small bore flexi hoses, so what do the customers complain of? very low hot and if gravity fed basin cold flow rates, and the plumber fobs them off with unbelievable rubbish that is believed until I come along and put them right, rant over, Rick

 

[macabethiel]

I have been in the plumbing/building game for more than 30 years, and have to say that although there as so called British Standards (BS) that are supposed to be complied with, most that I see now clearly cannot do so, so where are the regulators that are there to check that a supplier only stocks BS approved goods, well it is all down to the shit EU, we have to sell what they tell us, but our systems are very different, gravity hot water is still predominant in the UK yet we are inundated with cheap crap single hole sink and basin taps, what do these have in common, very small bore flexi hoses, so what do the customers complain of? very low hot and if gravity fed basin cold flow rates, and the plumber fobs them off with unbelievable rubbish that is believed until I come along and put them right, rant over, Rick

When I put our last Kitchen in from B&Q the mixer tap they sold us was for high pressure Hot & Cold supply so it did not mix at all. The water was either Hot or Cold ! Ended up replacing the tap a few years later with one where the mixer is at the end rather than near the swivel if you get my meaning. What a task that was ordering the right Bristain unit so it would work as it should.

 

[solarman216]

When I put our last Kitchen in from B&Q the mixer tap they sold us was for high pressure Hot & Cold supply so it did not mix at all. The water was either Hot or Cold ! Ended up replacing the tap a few years later with one where the mixer is at the end rather than near the swivel if you get my meaning. What a task that was ordering the right Bristain unit so it would work as it should.

That is correct, British regs say that the cold supply must be on the outer tube and the hot on the inner and only to be mixed at the outlet, this is to prevent the spout becoming too hot but more importantly, if you imagine gravity hot mixing with high pressure cold at the base of the tap cold water can be passed back up the hot run, now not too bad with a kitchen sink mixer but imagine the consequences with a Bidet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Rick

 

[kitchenman]

As I understood it the water had to mix after the spout
I have been called out in the past when the hot water cistern overflowed every time the kitchen mixer was turned on. " the plumber told me that sort of tap always does that" she cried!
I think reg say that a non return valve must be fitted in the cold mains supply before the tap if the water mixes in the spout.
I am a boring old fart and tend to read instructions in the box, well I did when I was fitting kitchens
Tops only now.

 

[rustic]

As I understood it the water had to mix after the spout
I have been called out in the past when the hot water cistern overflowed every time the kitchen mixer was turned on. " the plumber told me that sort of tap always does that" she cried!
I think reg say that a non return valve must be fitted in the cold mains supply before the tap if the water mixes in the spout.
I am a boring old fart and tend to read instructions in the box, well I did when I was fitting kitchens
Tops only now.

I think a one way valve needs fitting in the low pressure hot supply too, that's what I did, to stop high pressure cold water feeding back into the header tank. it is also a problem on mixer taps with shower heads.
On single lever wash basin taps, where the cold is pressurised and the hot gravity fed, I have fitted a simple ball valve restrictor on the cold feed, so that you don't get splash back, all down the front of your trousers when first putting the tap on, well, that's my excuse :doh
Light grey trousers are the worst lol....:augie

Regarding close coupled toilets, if you have the typical syphon type, that doesn't flush unless you move the handle down 5 or more times in quick sucession, then most likely the thin plastic membrane that acts as a valve within the syphon, has probably shreaded, a replacement is only a few pence, but you have to seperate the upper tank from the pan, there is always a "doughnut washer" and these just turn to dust, and rarely seal on replacement. Again these are cheap and are available from Screwfix or Tool Station, or any plumbers merchant.
So be prepared, buy one in advance.