team wales meet 20th - 21st june 09

[Adz]

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 58774" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>extreme-4x4</TD><TD class=alt1>its not funny ya know. im still pretty ticked off</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Dont worry bout it,its in the past already :thumbs


<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 58770" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>lacroupade</TD><TD class=alt1>BTW Adz, in case we do Strata, its not the end of the world if you don't, but it wouldn't hurt to whip your towbar off (three bolts either side is all) and just tie-wrap the socket and cable up out of the way to the chassis...it might save the odd grounding here and there.

On Saturday Extreme will show you how to disconnect your rear anti-roll bar for when you're feeling even more adventurous...!

Above...YES :sly​

Below...NO :lol

Also, give our apparently shady reputation, I thought it best not to mention the lamb-clubbing....


This is better :clap :thumbs :lol ​

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[lacroupade]

then we tear 'em apart with our bare hands and eat 'em raw...well leastways thats what usually happens in McDonalds in Swansea....:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

 

[extreme-4x4]

Well old son, I'll tell you now, if I catch you out there where you shouldn't be, you'll know about it.

How fair is it for you to set a bad example for newbies and put access to our lanes at risk?

If we're not careful and clean up our collective act, we will all be tarred with the same brush, drive lanes, I encourage that, but please don't trespass or cause unnecessry damage. I'm not prepared to be lumped in with a few people who don't care about the countryside........

All I have to do is dig out your vehicle reg and make sure it's published to the right people who will watch out for you, then its only a matter of time, a warning now will save you both expense and embaressment.............the helicopter is out and about on spot patrols frequently and, the police are now equipped with some bikes and a few choice 4x4's as well.
So please, play nicely......... pass the message on......

some more points to concider

dave rogers .... who are you ? what jurisdiction do you have to police the sarn helen ?



come on dont be shy. why dont you tell us who you are and your possition?
dont you think people deserve the right to decide there views on a discussion, and given the full facts of who is having the discussion.


ok i cant resist

As CRAG’s chairman, I would like to extend a warm welcome to all who have already joined and to those who are considering, come and join us.

Dave Rogers

Chairman; Countryside Recreational Access Group.


ooh we are honored so nath has got the boss in, to sort out "the big team wales massive". all three of us.
so is your threatening and bully boy tack ticks any way of asking people to join up and join in on your crusade to open up the countryside to everyone.

how will your members feel, knowing you have publicly said you will grass and snitch on other track users. if they dont do things your way

maybe i can run a post in a magazine or something showing people how you behave. i doubt it will make people warm to your way of thinking . because it certainly has not got me interested.

while im at it, i could i guess. post your mobile number and email address on this magazine advert for the benefits of joining crag..... after all they are all freely available on the internet
and i only put 2 mins into looking these up. and im sure plenty will want to complain about your actions


unfortunately what you are doing apart from giving your association a bad name, is dividing the 4x4 community and i cant see that helping anyone

in fact you have probably alienated your association from the very people who you should be attracting. we have been a group of 3 for 5 months and had 3 outings and 95% legal and safe the other 5% was either lost or young and dumb but looking for guidance..... none has been offered here , just threats

if your in the know you should teach . you cant teach by punnishment

 

[tezzer]

this ocelot, is he a spy and a wind up from the enemy, seems to talking aload of rubbish to be honest.:lol

 

[extreme-4x4]

so now we all have the necessary information


please keep it safe and legal . but most of all enjoy the time out with friends and the countryside


don't give in to the bully's



you all still coming? , i feel like my truck might be bugged one day soon

 

[extreme-4x4]

this ocelot, is he a spy and a wind up from the enemy, seems to talking aload of rubbish to be honest.:lol

no he's the real deal
the big boss of CRAG

look on there site http://www.crag-uk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=2

id say nath talking gibberish and not being able to hold up a conversation and him feeling the need to leave. has attracted the boss to come in and get us or me.

all this because nath couldn't comprehend the fact that CRAG helped build a bridge on the sarn and then powys council closed it to traffic... so they wasted there time and money.

maybe the boss can hold up a better conversation:nenau
maybe this Dave can tell us how many people actually use the the sarn for walking or mountain bikes because i have seen 3 in total over a couple of years. probably because its bloody lethal to walk or cycle it..... and not because of the 4x4's its the farmers tractors and forrestry trucks using it still

also they are not the enemy. the ones you mention have stopped that game now.
thank you whoever fixed that

 

[extreme-4x4]

i think the people most hurt by this are the likes of terra. who has offered help and guidance. not in a pushy way in fact in quite the opposite.

but because of his approach we have taken on board what he says, he will know from my early days im not as dumb as i was and we are trying to learn.
so if i was to follow anyone id follow him.

and for the sake of anyone reading this, we will show adz and anyone else we meet . there is a way to have a nice day out and have fun but legally


we are not out to wreck things

 

[ocelot]

Well done.......... seems like you have a few grey cells xtreme!

www.crag-uk.org

For the record, I'm not the boss man of CRAG, that joy belongs to another, I am the VC tho and I was the inaugural chairman when we started CRAG as a response to the very sorry state of some of the lanes. This response is not connected to Nathan either, this is entirely off my own back.
If you've looked up some information, no doubt you'll have seen some of the hard graft of the membership where, out of their own pockets in many cases, they have carried out significant works to rights of way to improve them for all users. Lanes like the ones you drive. CRAG and other groups/organisations put something back.
I know the beacons NP stuffed us on the Sarn, and yes, we were told one thing and they did the opposite....... the other councils we work with tho are really supportive....

As for talking rubbish,
The last sting operation in concert with north wales police, local authorities and the warden service, not to mention four rights of way officers, (there were four counties on the last major sting), we saw a number of seizures, (no tax/mot, mainly motor bikes), several prosecutions for criminal damage, (4x4's deliberately off track having caused damage to fences walls and gates) and a fair few warnings/S59's given out. I've presented photographic and video evidence in court before now together with satellite pictures of ground damaged through illegal use but I stress, I only take umbrage with those who through their own deliberate actions, cause unnecessary damage and/or drive where they shouldn't. A good example of this is the bombhole at the top of the wayfarer, the track is a legal right of way, the bombhole is a SSSI and is protected, as is the area either side of the track. Som people think its fun to drive through the bombhole which causes loads of damage to the surrounding area as well.............

I got involved with this because I got sick and tired of people destroying the lanes, there arn't many people who delight in creating ruts or driving up earthen walls, it's just a tiny minority but because of the damage they cause, and don't get me wrong, we've all caused some damage using an MPV somewhere, and we've all been in the wrong place too, I certainly have and once I was told because I didn't know, (and no, the internet didn't really exist back in those days), I tried to stick to where I could legally drive. None of us can really use ignorance as an excuse nowadays as the internet is a great resource.
I'm not 'grassing' on anyone, I'm trying to protect our rights of way, the nercA took away too many lanes, if we want to prevent that from happening again, we need to be seen to be treating what we have left with respect!

I'm delighted to see that you're going to drive legally and that you're going to spread the word, if you want to know any of the lanes up in north wales, there are some perhaps which you may not have driven, just drop me a line and I'll give you the overlays/grid refs.............

My phone number by the way is 07989 410 555 and my email is [email protected].

Feel free to get in touch............

 

[extreme-4x4]

well that's refreshing, at last some sensible conversation about lanes etc

i think in truth people think we are worse than we are.
we have all seen deliberate damaged caused and being caused (but not by us)
when laning we (team wales)do drive slowly and safely and do try to keep to the track when its possible to see where it is, we dont go in places we know we are going to get stuck and cause a mess.

however i am a powys resident and tax payer, i have used the sarn for many years, and still do,
my reason for continuing to use the sarn is to protest at the way the council and the bbnp have closed it. illegally in my oppinion.

lets face it, if i had a public right of way through my land it is my responsibility to maintain it. its the law... the fact the councils say they cant afford to maintain it is irrespective, its there legal duty

so i will continue to use the sarn at my own risk. but i will still drive it safely and respectfully.

as i do if i choose to protest about walters closing the mountain for his personal gain, i will still go there, again at my risk and i will drive safely and respectfully.

i think the point people miss understand we dont need to drive recklessly or dangerously to cause inconvenience. that will only lead to prosecution and friction.

people from far away often come here to deliberatelly dig the place up. and cause problems
others often think they are the big cheese when it comes to sorting the lanes out.

locally and not through team wales we do lots here . we are not members of some organization or anything , but we do have a friend in the neath port talbot council , who does put pressure on walters to tow the line. i was even in a room of similar people, on day 2 of the neath side of the sarn late opening this year. while someone explained to walters himself , that his rally was at serious risk of not happening this year . if the sarn was not opened as it should legally be ... it was open within the hour.
so local action does work.... how many other groups organizations even notice it was late opening.

so we dont do things your way, we do use the direct action, but it is safe and it is respectfull

powys and bbnp are next on our list. they will be getting some direct action this year, from the local community

it might not be your way, but it is our way the local way. and lets face it if walters will listen... so will powys council eventually

 

[Adz]

ocelot

You have climbed the ladder slightly in my thoughts of you now
& just to stick up for and agree with extreme-4x4 i would more than likely feel & do the same if i lived there.!
As i live across the other side of the country i could of quite easily come over & fooked up the "green lanes" but as a respectfull person & being into anything with wheels & bought up with respect.! I choose to join a club & do things properly & leagally which is what we will be doing at the weekend.!

The people who hack up & fook up the lanes arent owners club members or people into off roading.!

Its normally hood rats,thieves & general low life scum.!

Now all of this is out & hopefully the mist has cleared for now.!? :nenau :lol

Lets get this back on track & see if we can get 10 of us in this little road trip :clap

 

[Adz]

1 extreme-4x4 (CONFIRMED)
2 Adz (CONFIRMED)
3 Makeitfit (eventualy)
4 Local misfit (but quality team wales candidate)
5 lord croupade

 

[ocelot]

ocelot

You have climbed the ladder slightly in my thoughts of you now
& just to stick up for and agree with extreme-4x4 i would more than likely feel & do the same if i lived there.!
As i live across the other side of the country i could of quite easily come over & fooked up the "green lanes" but as a respectfull person & being into anything with wheels & bought up with respect.! I choose to join a club & do things properly & leagally which is what we will be doing at the weekend.!

The people who hack up & fook up the lanes arent owners club members or people into off roading.!

Its normally hood rats,thieves & general low life scum.!

Now all of this is out & hopefully the mist has cleared for now.!? :nenau :lol

Lets get this back on track & see if we can get 10 of us in this little road trip :clap

Thanks Adz

I understand Extreme's point of view and sympathise........... the sarn should not be shut, it should not be subject to any restrictions whatsoever and it should be open for all to use...... I also understand his decision to take local action and I would hope that should any responsible driver be prosecuted for driving the Sarn (in particular) that the rest of the MPV community would put their hands in their collective pockets and contribute to putting a legal case together which had a high public profile. I would, just for the record. It would be interesting to test the whole debate legally, it would be expensive tho.
Just for the record, organisations like glass, TRF, crag, lara etc, have members who live in the localities where the repairs take place, so if a repair is needed, then the various groups combine resources. It makes sense. The job should always be organised and managed locally as well.

I'm from mid wales originally, a tiny village between newtown and welshpool called new mills before moving to anglesey so I have a deep understanding not only of the local thinking, but of Welsh culture as well. The selfishness of Powys council is well known, especially as they pay far too much respect to the landowners...... money talks, as damn usual!

I can't condone trespass, but I accept the point that Extreme and the rest of team wales do not contribute unnecessarily to the levels of damage meted out by other more tricked up MPV's.
All I can offer is go with your concience...............
Have a great weekend guys and if you get up my way, give me a call and if there are any lanes you don't know in north wales, just shout!

Regards

 

[GoodOldBakes]

lets face it, if i had a public right of way through my land it is my responsibility to maintain it. its the law... the fact the councils say they cant afford to maintain it is irrespective, its there legal duty

Correct. If you were a private land owner with poorly maintained land, the local council could serve a notice under section 215 of the Town & Country Planning Act 1990, requiring you to tidy it up and maintain it. Although councils can't serve notices on themselves, it does smack of hypocrisy when they can say " I'm sorry Mr Jones, I don't care if you can't afford to maintain your land, this is in the interests of public amenity - just get it done..!" and then turn around and give the same excuse about their land and do nothing.

Good luck in your quest.

 

[Adz]

ocelot

Thanks Adz

I understand Extreme's point of view and sympathise........... the sarn should not be shut, it should not be subject to any restrictions whatsoever and it should be open for all to use...... I also understand his decision to take local action and I would hope that should any responsible driver be prosecuted for driving the Sarn (in particular) that the rest of the MPV community would put their hands in their collective pockets and contribute to putting a legal case together which had a high public profile. I would, just for the record. It would be interesting to test the whole debate legally, it would be expensive tho.
Just for the record, organisations like glass, TRF, crag, lara etc, have members who live in the localities where the repairs take place, so if a repair is needed, then the various groups combine resources. It makes sense. The job should always be organised and managed locally as well.

I'm from mid wales originally, a tiny village between newtown and welshpool called new mills before moving to anglesey so I have a deep understanding not only of the local thinking, but of Welsh culture as well. The selfishness of Powys council is well known, especially as they pay far too much respect to the landowners...... money talks, as damn usual!

I can't condone trespass, but I accept the point that Extreme and the rest of team wales do not contribute unnecessarily to the levels of damage meted out by other more tricked up MPV's.
All I can offer is go with your concience...............
Have a great weekend guys and if you get up my way, give me a call and if there are any lanes you don't know in north wales, just shout!

Regards

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GoodOldBakes

Correct. If you were a private land owner with poorly maintained land, the local council could serve a notice under section 215 of the Town & Country Planning Act 1990, requiring you to tidy it up and maintain it. Although councils can't serve notices on themselves, it does smack of hypocrisy when they can say " I'm sorry Mr Jones, I don't care if you can't afford to maintain your land, this is in the interests of public amenity - just get it done..!" and then turn around and give the same excuse about their land and do nothing.

Good luck in your quest.

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Cool,thats that done & dusted :nenau :lol :augie

At this rate i can see moving to Wales :lol :lol :lol

Anyways,lets save this for another day & on a seperate thread


http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59020#post59020




1 extreme-4x4(CONFIRMED)
2 Adz (CONFIRMED)
3 Makeitfit (eventualy)
4 Local misfit (but quality team wales candidate)
5 lord croupade

So is anybody else tagging along this weekend
&
Where & at what time are we all meetting

 

[Adz]

So...
What time are we all meeting up.?
Where abouts are we meeting up.?
I will need a post code for the old TomTom :lol
Or...
Who am i meeting & where.?
Again,will need post code

Really looking forward to this

 

[extreme-4x4]

dave . im glad we all had a chance to discuss the varied views on the welsh lanes, to be honest you seem quite reasonable. after all we all want the same thing.

so would you like to come to one of our meets down here or maybe we could do one in mid/north wales and you could show us around up there

perhaps we could meet up to discuss the way forward with regard to the powys problem, the summer is here and its the right time to start fighting back.
we have a planning officer here in this club who offered some help before maybe his understanding of the laws could be useful. we also have other law people here too. im sure they will be only too pleased to help or advise

there are loads of unaffiliated 4x4 drivers around who want to do something but don't know where to start. 2009 could be the time we win our lane back , it will be good for everyone and it will bring the 4x4 community together

 

[extreme-4x4]

ok adz we are fixing petes truck at my place tomorrow all day, so come anytime your free. it should take 4 hours is to get here

ill pm the post code

 

[Adz]

Ok,ta. :thumbs

Just had a look on "Multimap"

What would suite you the best.?

I could come down tomorrow night after work but it will be late
Or
I can treck down Sat morning

 

[extreme-4x4]

friday then ay

 

[Adz]

friday then ay

I wont be on line in that case from tomorrow :lol

I'll txt you as soon as i'm over the Dartford Crossing & again once over the 7 crossing :thumbs

C ya's tomorrow :bow :thumbs :clap