Strange noise!

[Flying Torquewrench]

Turning to the collective power of the forum to identify arather strange noise coming from the Patrol.

I know that a ‘strange sound’ is a rather vague description and I try my best to explain.

The car went for its MOT in December and failed on some rust in the chassis rails and sticking rear brake calipers. Unfortunately due to the new MOT rules you can’t complete the repairs yourself anymore as a failure means that yuo can’t drive it anymore. Therefore the garage had to repair the car and this was done to a standard to pass the MOT.

However, shortly after it started to make a few strange noises.
-The first one seems fairly straight forward and sounds like the rear rotors are slightly warped and hitting the brake pistons after using the brakes. It will only last a few seconds and then disappears.

-The second noise is more of a mystery. It sounds like the driveshaft is spraying oil on the underside of the car. Not a constant ‘spraying’ sound but it comes and goes with a 1 second interval. There is no sound when doing around 40mph but becomes apparant at higher speeds. I haven’t checked the fluids in the gearbox and transferbox yet but it sounds to me like a possible gearbox issue.

Has anybody got any idea what the issue could be?

Many thanks

 

[solarman216]

Re the rear brakes sound like the pad locating shim/springs are not located correctly or they are damaged, I had to get new ones for mine, as for the spraying sound no idea, but tell me if you cannot now drive away a failed motor how do the likes of "Just MOT's" get on with no workshop facilities, Rick

 

[Banshee]

Re the rear brakes sound like the pad locating shim/springs are not located correctly or they are damaged, I had to get new ones for mine, as for the spraying sound no idea, but tell me if you cannot now drive away a failed motor how do the likes of "Just MOT's" get on with no workshop facilities, Rick

Exactly my thoughts Rick, if they failed me you can bet that I wouldn't be going back there either as if I put a truck in for a test, I know hand on my heart that it's "road legal" and "safe" I don't care for "tyres sticking out of arches" etc etc that's just pedantic.

Do the garages have any power with this new legislation? Can't imagine this is right though, what if you're unhappy with said tester and feel like you've been mistreated due to personal reasons for example. He fails your car and now you're at his mercy for whatever he wants to charge for the "repairs" your vehicle now needs to get a ticket in order to legally drive it away?

:nenau

 

[macabethiel]

That noise ?

I think it has to be classified as a "Dangerous fail" to not be able to drive it away. Even then you can have it recovered instead and taken home or elsewhere at your cost. If you did try to drive it away then due to "duty of care" the Garage would ask you to sign a disclaimer before giving you the keys. That said if stopped by Police you would be committing an offence.

My Jeep fail on the rear handbrake due to weeping drive shaft seal was classed as "Major fail", even so no issues with driving it away and taking it back in to be repaired later this week when they have the parts.

Not sure of the driveshaft layout at the rear of your Patrol but I had a similar sound on a previous vehicle - it was a driveshaft seal clip that at speed opened up as a result of centrifugal force causing the alloy clip to catch on the inside of the wheel hub housing.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Thank you all so far.

Rick, it was a dangerous fail as the rear brakes only achieved about 10% of the braking force required. As has been mentioned you can’t then legally drive it on the road. Not a case of the garage not giving back the keys but a case of committing an offense.

Macabethiel, it doesn’t sund like it is anything metallic.

Will have a look tomorrow and report back.

 

[macabethiel]

Thank you all so far.

Rick, it was a dangerous fail as the rear brakes only achieved about 10% of the braking force required. As has been mentioned you can’t then legally drive it on the road. Not a case of the garage not giving back the keys but a case of committing an offense.

Macabethiel, it doesn’t sund like it is anything metallic.

Will have a look tomorrow and report back.

Okay but if cable ties have been used instead the sound might be different. Just a thought.

 

[luke1987]

That's why you take it before your MOT runs out the rules state:

Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if:

your current MOT certificate is still valid
no ‘dangerous’ problems were listed in the MOT
Otherwise, you’ll need to get it repaired before you can drive.

You can still drive to a pre-booked MOT though if you dont have a ticket, Its a grey area because technically if it fails you can still drive it away to get it repaired as stated here:
Taking your vehicle away for repairs
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:

have the failed defects fixed
a pre-arranged MOT test appointment
In both cases, your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.

So whats stopping you driving it home to repair it yourself.

 

[macabethiel]

That's why you take it before your MOT runs out the rules state:

Driving a vehicle that’s failed
You can take your vehicle away if:

your current MOT certificate is still valid
no ‘dangerous’ problems were listed in the MOT
Otherwise, you’ll need to get it repaired before you can drive.

You can still drive to a pre-booked MOT though if you dont have a ticket, Its a grey area because technically if it fails you can still drive it away to get it repaired as stated here:
Taking your vehicle away for repairs
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.

If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:

have the failed defects fixed
a pre-arranged MOT test appointment
In both cases, your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.

So whats stopping you driving it home to repair it yourself.

I think it was a Dangerous Fail Luke.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Luke, I am aware of that but unfortunately it was a dangerous fail. I had the choice of having it recovered and do the work myself or pay the garage to repalce the brake calipers and do a bit of welding.

 

[Banshee]

Luke, I am aware of that but unfortunately it was a dangerous fail. I had the choice of having it recovered and do the work myself or pay the garage to repalce the brake calipers and do a bit of welding.

I'd have a real issue with not being able to take the vehicle away, and would likely get a little heated with anyone that prevented me doing so

That said, I don't think I've ever put a vehicle in for a test that I haven't fully checked over myself (and i'd like to think I'm strict) so I doubt I'd ever get a dangerous fail. That said, we are all human and miss things.

It's the sly testers that try and fail you with the silly stuff just to make a few more quid out of you, makes my blood boil!!!!

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

In all fairness to the garage they were pretty good. The last few MOTs it was noted that the rear brakes were seizing up. Every time they took them apart, cleaned them and it passed the MOT. This time even after cleaning they still seized and therefore did not get anywhere close to their required effeciency.

I was aware of it and the plan was to change the calipers if it came up on the MOT. Due to the new MOT rules I wanted to see if it would pass and if not, what the problems were. Then make a decision if it was financially viable to repair the car or accept defeat and look for something new.

They were quite happy to give me the car back but it would mean that it had to be recoved back to my house. Not a great distance but I am not prepared to take the car on the road if it has a dangerous fail. Not that I wouldn’t get home safely but you would be up to your eyeballs in problems if anything happened.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

First bit of trouble shotting done and all the fluids are fine.

Started the engine whilst pressing the clutch and all is fine. Release the clutch and it starts emitting a noise like two metal parts slipping loosely on each other.

Going to disconnect the driveshaft so that I can run the gearbox through all the gears and see if I can replicate the other noise.

Might see if I can take a video so that you can hear the noise.

 

[Banshee]

First bit of trouble shotting done and all the fluids are fine.

Started the engine whilst pressing the clutch and all is fine. Release the clutch and it starts emitting a noise like two metal parts slipping loosely on each other.

Going to disconnect the driveshaft so that I can run the gearbox through all the gears and see if I can replicate the other noise.

Might see if I can take a video so that you can hear the noise.

My money is on your release bearing, mine had the exact same behavior until I put my 3 litre clutch in it.

I'll buy your SWB Patrol off you mate :naughty :thumb2

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Thanks for the offer Banshee. Sorry to disappoint but he is not for sale.

Clutch was only replaced in 2017, a bit disappointed to have issues with it already.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

According to the link below it is a worn transmission input shaft bearing.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techn...rain/diagnosing-clutch-bearing-bushing-noise/

The symptoms are exactly as described so now the hunt is on for a new bearing and book him into the garage to have it replaced.

 

[macabethiel]

These noises are very difficult to diagnose without a strip down.

According to the link below it is a worn transmission input shaft bearing.

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techn...rain/diagnosing-clutch-bearing-bushing-noise/

The symptoms are exactly as described so now the hunt is on for a new bearing and book him into the garage to have it replaced.

I think it more likely that it is the clutch release bearing IMHO.

Reading the website link it states:-
"A bearing noise that occurs when releasing the clutch pedal to engage the clutch while in neutral, but goes away when the pedal is depressed is caused by a bad transmission input shaft bearing."

Not sure of your specific gearbox design but usually it's the layshaft bearing that is the more likely culprit if it's not the release bearing as it takes so much load in lower gears. You can eliminate the layshaft bearing by putting the gearbox in 1:1 gear mode, this is usually 4th Gear if the noise disappears in direct drive then it's not the layshaft. Can the input shaft bearing be replaced without removing the gearbox - nice if it can?

If you have had a replacement release bearing fitted when it had a new clutch then are you sure the clutch has had enough free play. A lack of free play would shorten the life of the release bearing. Just flagging up possibilities for consideration.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Thanks Macabethiel, to be honest I don’t know if the clutch haenough free play as the garage changed the clutch. Haven’t got the time to do it myself unfortunately.

Reading the Patrols ‘Haynes’ (Australian version) manual then the gearbox has to be removed and partly dismantled to change the input shaft bearing. It won’t be a quick job and I am waiting for a quote from my garage.

In my view the biggest problem will probably be where to get the required bearing in a reasonable time frame. My experience with Nissan is that it takes up to two weeks for any non UK stock items.

As no parts can be ordered till we know which bearing is playing up I can see the car being in the garage for a little while. At least it is hopefully only a bearing.

Might have the flywheel changed at the same time as that wasn’t in the best shape when they replaced the clutch.

 

[solarman216]

Any bearing can be had next day from Kent Bearings Ashford, I have used them for years, you do not even need to have the numbers from the original, just accurate dimensions are good, oh and far cheaper, Rick

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

Cheers Rick, that is really usefull.

 

[Flying Torquewrench]

After a visit to the garage my initial diagnosis was confirmed and it is the transmission input shaft.

Waiting for a quote to have the bearing replaced. They need to remove the gearbox and send it to a gearbox specialist to replace the bearing. I have a feeling that this won’t be a cheap fix.

Once the gearbox is off I also asked for them to repalce the flywheel as that is worn. Now the hunt starts for a dual mass flywheel wheel.

Edit. The quote for the bearing replacement is £920 subject to any further issues found with the gearbox.