Sarn Helen

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Terranosaurus

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
3,991
Seems theres a new notice up on sarn helen for the next round of seasonal TRO

here's 2 posts on the subject off difflock - could really do to see with a proper copt of any proposal so as to make a proper response.

There is a new council notice at the bottom of Sarn Helen.
It says the road will close on 22/8/09.
It will reopen on 1/6/10 ?.



SARN HELEN ROMAN ROAD - BANWEN TO ABERDULAIS

This byway open to all traffic is regularly used by equestrians, walkers, mountain bikers, off-road motorcycles & 4x4 vehicles. The route has some quite unique features including, the Roman Road itself which runs along the ridgeway of Hirfynnydd, (translates as 'Long Mountain'), near Glynneath. From the triangulation point, it enjoys some spectacular views including, to the South, a panoramic view of much of West & Mid Glamorgan, the Bristol Channel & the coast of Devon. The view to the North is the vista of the Black Mountains running into the Brecon Beacons. It presents a challenging drive for off-roaders with the fabulous views from the summit as an added bonus there are few byway roads left where this level of access can be enjoyed by motorised vehicles and which are so rewarding in terms of driving experience & views. The 7 mile long mountain is set in amongst some spectacular rolling hillsides and thousands of acres of forestry.

This amenity has also proved to be very popular with disabled 4x4 drivers as it is a route which can be negotiated in a suitable vehicle. Disabled motorists would lose this amenity if the TRO is extended as, unlike many other members of the public, they aren't going to be able to use a disability scooter to get up there, they won't be able to walk up there & in all probability won't be able to ride a horse or cycle up there.

This area is criss-crossed by public footpaths, bridleways, byways, etc. There have been frequent access problems over the past couple of years with byways being illegally obstructed on numerous occasions, as well as ongoing attempts to intimidate legal users of the bridleways & footpaths in attempt to erode use of these routes. There is a currently 7 month closure period in place - a TRO detailing a seasonal prohibition of driving. The landowner, (Walters Mining Ltd), is requesting an extension of conditions on the TRO to extend the closure period & to include all linked byways with the erection of locking barriers. Officials in Neath, Port-Talbot Council seem to be giving their unofficial backing to these extended TRO conditions.


It is apparent that the landowner is antagonistic towards public use of public rights of way over this large parcel of mountain & forestry. Locals believed that the landowner is trying to erode public access until the only vehicles that can get onto the land are those prepared to pay to use the Walters Motorsports Complex. Neath, Port-Talbot Council appears quite prepared to allow this to happen. The need for extendeding the TRO are cited as;
Improvement of the amenity through which the byways pass.
To prevent damage to the road-surface by 4x4s & off-road motorbikes.

The landowner, is seeking to enhance the amenity of the area by erecting several wind-turbines, installing a waste-recycling plant generating 100+ heavy lorry movements a week & running regular motor events here.
The landowner is helping to preserve the road-surface by running Rally's, off-road events for 4x4s, off-road training for motorcycles as well as driving Plant through to their quarrying operation - 14 ton JCBs, tracked diggers, etc. It seems that off-road motorcycles & vehicles are not to be excluded by this TRO as paying for the privilege of using the facility appears to negate any of the damage that might be caused. This, on a road, which does not appear to have benefited from any maintenance work by the local authority for very many years - despite regular promises to do so.

A number of individuals from local communities have decided to unite to form an alliance to fight the gradual loss of rights of way on Hirfynnydd. R.O.W.A.N. (Rights Of Way Alliance Neath) has the primary aim of protecting ALL Public Rights of Way at Hirfynydd for use by EVERYONE.

This amenity has always been very well used by members of local communities. Due to the extremely attractive nature of the route, visitors from across the UK enjoy coming to walk, ride or drive the Sarn Helen. This extended closure order isn't about improving the amenity or preserving road surfaces - it's all about a wealthy corporation making more money at the expense of others, increasing land values & the Councils lethargy, (or worse), that is helping it happen.

We are convinced that if the Sarn Helen is lost, access to the bridleways & footpaths will be gradually eroded over time until these are also lost. This would be tragic if allowed to happen and future generations would be the losers - this on a road which has been in public use for the better part of 2 Millennia.

This TRO extension request is being put out for consultation. The Councillors on the Committee which will make the decision have already looked at the issues & are justly concerned.

If you are able to help us in this fight to stop this TRO from being extended we would be very grateful. There is to be a consultation period before this TRO request is considered again by Council. If you have enjoyed using this road or if you plan to use this route in the future - please back up our opposition to this TRO extension request. The stronger the level of opposition, the more likely we are to stop it happening. Contact details are below;
If you haven't yet experienced the delights of Sarn Helen, please make the most of it - in case we do lose it!

My apologies to anyone I have inadvertently ommitted If you can think of any other clubs or individuals to forward this onto, please help our cause by doing this. I also apologise if I've duplicated your email address & mailed you more than once. Also we'll help with any similar problems by vicing our concerns on e-petitions / objections - just let us know.

If you're able to mention this on your website or in your club magazine - that would be brilliant!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarn_Helen

http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=2734190

Best regards,

Chris Williams
R.O.W.A.N.
(Rights Of Way Alliance Neath)
[email protected]

Details for sending objection;

(please DO NOT forward this email as part of your objection)

To be received by 27th July - pls try to get them in sooner if you are prepared to help us out.



Ref: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order Sarn Helen

[email protected]
 
See if "extreme-4x4" has seen it.?
 
Talked at length with Colin about this and he is adamant that, until now, there have been no signs up on any of the access points, which leads me to think its not been legally closed at any point so far....despite the councils aspirations!

COLIN, go take a photo will ya?
 
Just found this if it helps, took it 20/6/09 6.17pm :cool:
20062009426.jpg

No signs there mate:augie
 
Hmmm...confirms what Colin says.

I believe the bottom line to be then that the bits of Sarn that do not have the appropriate and proper legal signage simply aren't closed. Its like trying to nick someone for exceeding a 30mph limit when theres no sign....

Take the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire/Wilts for example....much of it has been TROd for permanent closure now (1-0 to the bloody bobble hats) but significant lengths of track that approach it up the flanks of the Downs are still open, but have to be - and are - signed at the point they intersect the Ridgeway to say you cannot proceed further. But using a proper round, red-rimmed 'mandatory' sign, not some council-produced bit of cardboard.

Sarn has to be the same or there is no legal closure, hence only S59s for people who are misbehaving, as opposed to simply driving the lane.
 
Just found this if it helps, took it 20/6/09 6.17pm :cool:
20062009426.jpg

No signs there mate:augie


Well i was with them & i can 100% confirm "NO leagel closed signs" on the route that we drove :thumb2
 
ok the section that the bloke from rowan is talking about is from aberdulais to banwen (neath - banwen) this area is the section we did legally with adz on recent team wales meet,
it was fully open for the season june- sept inclusive
and i stress legally despite recent comments and part copying / editing of posts from here and placed on diflock.
hardly worth mentioning really it seems they have trouble reading whats on the page of there own forum let alone understand it. however i will sign up there just to set the record straight and point out to the person that does this, in his own yard / forum. why is it i keep having to put the record straight with this particular person.
seems he still has the sulk on:lol:lol:lol:lol

anyway back to the thread in hand

the photo of the gate is the gate unsign posted at coelbren to brecon that is alegedly closed
so you can see no signage to confirm lack of interest from powys council...

anyway ill look into this tomorrow and get copies of paperwork they might hold at rowan re the sarn from aberdulais to banwen

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
oh and just because i wont have all this shit from nathan continuing to spoil my browsing pleasure,

NATHAN i challenge you to show me exactly where i go off piste. go on you and dave from crag come to a team wales meet and show me what dis pleases you and how im going off piste.

and you know thats the first question your getting publicly on diflock. so have a good think about it . i can meet you at strata and you can show me the exact route, no trouble, its not a threat or anything nasty. i just want you to show me so we can put all this boring bitching to bed for good...... ill even come on my own if you like

lets face it if you know better, then prove it

and yes i know you can read this
 
I knew I shouldn't have sent you that link LMAO!!!

Still, he needs to wind his neck in with all his childish accusations, otherwise we won't let him come to Wales again and drive the lanes that OUR council tax pays to maintain!!!:thumbs
 
NATHAN i challenge you to show me exactly where i go off piste. go on you and dave from crag come to a team wales meet and show me what dis pleases you and how im going off piste.

and you know thats the first question your getting publicly on diflock. so have a good think about it . i can meet you at strata and you can show me the exact route, no trouble, its not a threat or anything nasty. i just want you to show me so we can put all this boring bitching to bed for good...... ill even come on my own if you like

lets face it if you know better, then prove it

and yes i know you can read this


:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

:sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly :sly​
 
I knew I shouldn't have sent you that link LMAO!!!

Still, he needs to wind his neck in with all his childish accusations, otherwise we won't let him come to Wales again and drive the lanes that OUR council tax pays to maintain!!!:thumbs


:clap :clap :clap TEAM:South East is with you both :clap :clap :clap
 
Somebody badmouthing us again mates?:augie
Do I need to put my "Taffia" mates into action on this:sly
They can be really abrasive when they're asked:naughty
 
evening fellow nissanites..................
Just back from the outer hebrides, literally....

awesome place, anyway, I digress,

emotion aside, Mr Extreme, neither Nathan nor myself are swiping at anyone, I'm not anyhow.
I agree that the lane boundaries should be defined, and that the council should get off the fence and state legally, exactly what the situation is.
The truth is, no one knows, hence the revocation of the S59's issued both last and this year.
I want to see this right of way used to it's full extent, by whoever chooses to do so, and whenever.......
The bottom line is, the TRO, such as it is on the Sarn, is up for renewal, I have an inkling that the council/BBNP are going to try to shut the lane in its entireity, that's the line I hear from groups opposed to MPV use on rights of way. I do resort to wearing a 'mask' occasionally in order to find out what's hapening in those camps who's point of view tends to be rather narrower than our own or in total opposition even. The only way to beat them is........
So I believe that there is a move against MPV access on the Sarn and Chris Williams (who I don't know) is trying to rally support.

So, a letter can't hurt the cause surely? The more the merrier I think.

However, and for the record, I am simply me in here, just a geezer who drives a T2, and who's into keeping our rights of way open for future generations.

I guess to underline this, I'm going to have to come down and drive the lane which means I'll have to take the damned towbar off.........
Time and funds are tight at the moment, and I'm knackered from a long drive so anything else will have to wait...............
Might even drag nathan along too..........
 
Hi Dave - glad you had a good time...my neighbour in Oxfordshire is building a straw bale house in the Orkneys - keeps trying to get me up there, so sounds like I might have to cave in.

Re this 'letter writing'. who to and where please? We've just done one for Terranosaurus for some Yorks lanes, so won't hurt to repeat the exercise, but don't know where to address it...?
 
collected all the info on the sarn today from chris and rowan
will give it to paul tomorrow evening to post on here

it needs very quick letter writing from everyone though

if anyone wants to forward contact details ie glass or crag lara to get the word spead phone numbers would be good

having read all the info walters is really pushing to close this and fast

need lots of help on this one everyone
 
collected all the info on the sarn today from chris and rowan
will give it to paul tomorrow evening to post on here

it needs very quick letter writing from everyone though

if anyone wants to forward contact details ie glass or crag lara to get the word spead phone numbers would be good

having read all the info walters is really pushing to close this and fast

need lots of help on this one everyone


Ya know ya can count me in with what ever help i can give :thumbs
 
im enclined to go with the ring of steel around neath, just make a route and just keep driving in a big circle around the town. or council offices.
depending on how many people would turn up


protest and just bring it all to a stand still on a saturday afternoon or mid week im easy

if we drive legally what can they do ?
 
im enclined to go with the ring of steel around neath, just make a route and just keep driving in a big circle around the town. or council offices.
depending on how many people would turn up


protest and just bring it all to a stand still on a saturday afternoon or mid week im easy

if we drive legally what can they do ?


As ya know M8
I can only do the weekends i dont have me kids :thumbs
 
collected all the info on the sarn today from chris and rowan
will give it to paul tomorrow evening to post on here

it needs very quick letter writing from everyone though

if anyone wants to forward contact details ie glass or crag lara to get the word spead phone numbers would be good

having read all the info walters is really pushing to close this and fast

need lots of help on this one everyone

CRAG LARA and GLASS are already on the case................. it's also gone out on the mud club site and loads of others as well.......... this one is best dealt with by individuals as well as the groups, bombard walters with letters of objection.................

Address for letters/email is.....


[email protected]


or

Environmental Directorate
Neath, Port-Talbot County Borough Council
Civic Centre, The Quays
Brunel Way , Baglan Energy Park
Port Talbot
SA11 2GG
 
CRAG LARA and GLASS are already on the case................. it's also gone out on the mud club site and loads of others as well.......... this one is best dealt with by individuals as well as the groups, bombard walters with letters of objection.................

Address for letters/email is.....


[email protected]


or

Environmental Directorate
Neath, Port-Talbot County Borough Council
Civic Centre, The Quays
Brunel Way , Baglan Energy Park
Port Talbot
SA11 2GG

on the case.:thumbs
 
Nice one Paul,

It'll be good to give them some mass individual objections...........

point out the economic losses as well..................... plus I want to drive that lane later on this year and I'll be damned if I let some irresponsible business ruin it for any of us.
 

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