poor starting issue

[ste68blue]

Hi guys some may remember me putting a post recently about poor starting due to what i thought being glow plugs.
The glow plugs were replaced with new ones but the issue remained.

There was also a mention of possible fuel problems.

To quickly describe what the symptoms i am experiencing are i switch ignition on, glow plug light comes on (as always) then after a few seconds goes out, then when i turn the key to start the engine it turns over a few seconds and eventually fires but sounds and feel like it is running on 1 cylinder, after a few more seconds without touching anything the engine seems to level out and then runs fine.

So this is what i found this morning, i went to start the engine as normal, but it didnt fire up, i turned the key again after allowing the light to go out again and it fired straight up and wasnt even lumpy.
Now if that could be fuel related where should i start investigating?

A point also worth mentioning is that once the engine has been run i can switch it off and back on and it fires straight up, no lumpiness....

Please help as i am scared that at some point its not gunna start at all....

 

[clivvy]

have you checked:

ignition switch
battery earth/engine earth/pedal earths (near top of dipstick - two wires on the engine).

?

 

[ste68blue]

Hi thanks for the reply.
But they wouldnt explain the way it starts, very lumpy from first cold start, but fine once its fired and switched off and restarted...
Could air be getting into the fuel system...could this explain how once its turned over and started that its then fine...?

 

[clivvy]

if air is getting into the fuel system, then it will continue to be a problem - that said, inspect your fuel pipes especially down opposite the start motor - they rust there its hard to see.

Check fuel filter/seal on housing.

 

[Banshee]

Start again from scratch!!!! You def have plug issues still be it faulty plugs, bus bar or something else

These are the exact same symptoms the Terrano had when I brought it and I put the Lucas ones in that were a few months old from the Maverick before scrapping it and the problems went away

 

[ste68blue]

Okay...so I will do some testing and prodding about tomorrow...
I will start by checking voltage is getting to the buzz bar, I would also be tempted to put the old plugs back in and see if the problem is the same.
Can I check the glow plugs work out of the engine by connecting them directly to the battery before I put them back in?

 

[rustic]

...Can I check the glow plugs work out of the engine by connecting them directly to the battery before I put them back in?

Yes, but use a set of heavy duty wires to take 20 Amps, some use jump leads... but take care you don't create a short.
The end 1" of the glow plug, starts to go red hot within a few seconds, if it is working, so take precautions to avoid setting fire to anything.

Don't leave connected too long, just enough to prove they work.:thumb2

 

[Banshee]

Okay...so I will do some testing and prodding about tomorrow...
I will start by checking voltage is getting to the buzz bar, I would also be tempted to put the old plugs back in and see if the problem is the same.
Can I check the glow plugs work out of the engine by connecting them directly to the battery before I put them back in?

The jump lead test is a great way, if it don't glow like the pic in the link below then it's faulty!!

http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/forum/showpost.php?p=271563&postcount=27

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

It does sound glowplug related, as Banshee mentioned in another thread a while ago, worth checking that the nuts on the top of the glowplugs are making a good connection to the busbar.

Personally though, if you are fairly sure that they are ok, I would be looking at fuel filter. Have you changed it recently? Is the water trap on the bottom screwed into the filter properly, and also is the tap turned off completely?

I had a few issues similar to what you describe, car was a pig to start if left standing over night, but fine for most of the day starts. To start with, I changed the two pipes to clear, and noticed that the fuel was draining back to the tank, so I fitted a non-return valve just before the filter. It actually turned out I had a crack in the casting of the fuel filter mount, but it took a while to find that, and the non-return valve did help things for a while as it just clouded the fault finding for a while.

 

[ste68blue]

Again, thanks for the replies.

I am gunna do the test on the old glow plugs tomorrow and if they all work i am gunna put them back in i think....and double check the buzz bar connection after checking the voltage to the buzz bar...

The fuel filter was changed last weekend along with removing the mini filter too and replacing the leak off pipes.

I will report back with any findings.

 

[firebobby]

Has it been doing this for long then or since you changed the filter?
What smoke if any do you get when it starts and does it run normally through all rev ranges once warmed up.

 

[Banshee]

Has it been doing this for long then or since you changed the filter?
What smoke if any do you get when it starts and does it run normally through all rev ranges once warmed up.

I see where you're going with this and that would be my next call as well for sure but def an idea to re-check plugs etc first

 

[ste68blue]

i think the poor starting has just developed over quite a short period of time.
The filter was changed as a measure to eliminate it from the list of potential issues.
when it starts and i try to accelerate there is what i would think is whitish smoke....and is very lumpy.
Once it has run for a few seconds it revs fine and performs well, although i have noticed for a while that the turbo only spools up to 9psi, but am sure that is another issue for another day....

 

[AlexD333]

Something electrical in relation to the plugs or connection to them.

Seems funny that it will cough first time but immediately fire if turned off and on again.

I would suspect a dodgy connection of sort? :nenau

 

[ste68blue]

Hi guys, quick update from todays prodding and poking....

I first tested the voltage to the buzz bar plug and when i switched the ignition on i got a reading 12.3v.
checked continuity from plug to buzz bar and continuity from plug to glow plugs, all okay.
removed the glow plugs one at a time and connected them, via my jump leads to the battery and they all glowed bright orange with in seconds, so all okay there too.
what i did notice was an odd drip of fuel under the front end of the car, turned out the banjo (mini filter housing) appeared to be weeping (red arrow)

so i removed the power steering pump to get good access, removed the banjo and the nut/ housing beneath it, replaced the copper washers on both parts and reassembled.
That stopped the leak.
What i also noticed was that if i pumped the primer on top of the filter housing it was very spongy for a few pumps then became solid and bubbles seemed to appear in the feed pipe out of the primer.
If i left it a few mins and pumped it again the same happened, spongy then became solid and bubbles appeared.
So i decided to replace the fuel filter again with another new one.
Having done this, exactly the same happens....so air seems to be getting in somewhere, i checked the pipes from the tank all the way to the primer and all is dry...so could the fault be with the primer?

When i start the motor, initially it takes a few spins to get started and very lumpy, if i switch it back off and restart it fires straight away and no lumpiness, if i switch it off and leave it a few mins it takes a little while to restart and is initially very lumpy again....so that leads me to think the fuel pressure is dropping due to air ingress somewhere....

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Hi guys, quick update from todays prodding and poking....

I first tested the voltage to the buzz bar plug and when i switched the ignition on i got a reading 12.3v.
checked continuity from plug to buzz bar and continuity from plug to glow plugs, all okay.
removed the glow plugs one at a time and connected them, via my jump leads to the battery and they all glowed bright orange with in seconds, so all okay there too.
what i did notice was an odd drip of fuel under the front end of the car, turned out the banjo (mini filter housing) appeared to be weeping (red arrow)

so i removed the power steering pump to get good access, removed the banjo and the nut/ housing beneath it, replaced the copper washers on both parts and reassembled.
That stopped the leak.
What i also noticed was that if i pumped the primer on top of the filter housing it was very spongy for a few pumps then became solid and bubbles seemed to appear in the feed pipe out of the primer.
If i left it a few mins and pumped it again the same happened, spongy then became solid and bubbles appeared.
So i decided to replace the fuel filter again with another new one.
Having done this, exactly the same happens....so air seems to be getting in somewhere, i checked the pipes from the tank all the way to the primer and all is dry...so could the fault be with the primer?

When i start the motor, initially it takes a few spins to get started and very lumpy, if i switch it back off and restart it fires straight away and no lumpiness, if i switch it off and leave it a few mins it takes a little while to restart and is initially very lumpy again....so that leads me to think the fuel pressure is dropping due to air ingress somewhere....

Any thoughts or suggestions?

On mine, the inlet barb union that screws into the fuel filter housing, seemed a bit loose, and when I tightened it up, the problem got a lot worse, and I finally had a small leak appear. When I looked closer, there was a split in the casting, along the thread, and the union is very slightly tapered, so when I tightened it up, it forced open the crack, and that was where the air was being drawn in.

 

[ste68blue]

I have to say i would be tempted to temporarily put an in line filter to bypass the filter housing, just to see if that improves the situation...at least then i can pin point whether the filter housing is to blame...

Do any of the breakers on here have a filter housing/ primer they want to sell me at a reasonable price?

 

[ste68blue]

Ok guys, quick update...
On sunday I was having some real problems with air getting into the fuel system and causing me some slow lumpy starting...
Well monday morning came, started the motor and it fired straight up on the first click and has continued to do so since...
Now I dont like to tempt fate but the old girl appears to be back to her old self again, starting first click with no lumpyness at all, so whatever the problem was appears to have been resolved...sorry I cant give a more precise fix...

Thank you, as always to all contributors, thats what makes this forum great.

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Result... maybe it was the Banjo, and it just took a bit longer to get the remaining air out of the system. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[ste68blue]

Yes maybe...whatever it was its good to have the old girl back...