Intermittent immobiliser...

[emjaybee]

Having grief with my Y plate 5 door. Starts fine, runs fine. Go somewhere and stop engine. Won't restart. Glow plug light doesn't come on won't start. Will turn over but won't start. If you leave it for hours (approx 4+) mysteriously starts okay. Now can't trust it, has done this for couple of weeks now. Been recovered twice, starts later when at home. I suspect immobiliser is playing up. Wife uses the car so needs to be reliable. Don't want to spend ££££'s on dealer or changing modules willy-nilly. Would like to know if immobilser can be switched off or by-passed. It is unlikey to get nicked so not worried about losing immobiliser. If I can't solve it cheaply she'll have to go. Reluctantly, but can't have wife being stranded whilst towing horses! Please help, don't want to lose her! (the car, that is!)

 

[AlexD333]

How long have you tried cranking for after driving?

I wonder if the glow plug relay is faulty when got or something :nenau

In which case enough cranking would get it going.

Also what lights do you have on dash when the problem is present.

Get pictures/video of when terrano is running well to when it is not and see if there are differences (obviously glow plug light)

Welcome btw, nice bunch on here, how long have you owned?

 

[rayf3262]

Characteristic of a failing crankshaft position sensor (CKPS).
When the sensor ages the magnet looses some of its permeability, this is exacerbated when hot.

 

[emjaybee]

Lights?????

Mmmm, haven't looked for lights when it plays up. When it happens, I can crank it until my wrist aches but it won't start. It does seem to be worse when it's had a good run. Short trips sometimes it will start after a couple of attempts. But then sometimes I have driven 1 mile and it won't start!

What has the crank position sensor have to do with it? Both recovery guys that have come out to it found that no fuel was being pumped when it was cranking, which is kinda why I was looking at immobiliser!

My brain (electrician) was thinking second key(chipped copy) playing up or immobiliser playing up.

Had it two years, been useful tool as it doubles as winter van for property maintenance.:thumb2

 

[cncfabs]

I had that with a laguna if the crank sensor is faulty the ecu wont know its cranking and wont pump fuel

 

[rayf3262]

Mmmm, haven't looked for lights when it plays up. When it happens, I can crank it until my wrist aches but it won't start. It does seem to be worse when it's had a good run. Short trips sometimes it will start after a couple of attempts. But then sometimes I have driven 1 mile and it won't start!

What has the crank position sensor have to do with it? Both recovery guys that have come out to it found that no fuel was being pumped when it was cranking, which is kinda why I was looking at immobiliser!

My brain (electrician) was thinking second key(chipped copy) playing up or immobiliser playing up.

Had it two years, been useful tool as it doubles as winter van for property maintenance.:thumb2

If the IMMO is playing up then the dash indicator should confirm that.
If the CKPS is hot and delivering no crank position information, then it follws that no fuel will be delivered as the ECU does not know the position of the crank for injection.
Once started and hot with no CKPS output then the ECU will fall back to using the no 1 injector lift sensor, but it will not start under these conditions.

 

[solarman216]

Agree CPS, expensive from Nissan, depending on if it is Bosch or Hitachi I can point you in the right direction for a new one from a different make of car much cheaper,or might even have one here, Rick

 

[emjaybee]

Food for thought!

I think I shall have to take it out for a run in the next day or so and get it nice and hot and try to recreate the problem.

Which/What lights should I be getting on the dash for the immobiliser?

I have an owners manual, however it was off Eb*y and is not completely correct for my vehicle, but gives me most of what I need.

I am moderately ok with a bag of spanners, how easy is the CKPS to change?

Thanks solarman216 for the offer of sourcing a replacement I'll come back to you when I've tried a recreation.

Thanks for all your help today, please keep an eye on this thread and I'll try and recreate the fault and come back.

Starting to feel a bit more positive thatthe old girl will keep going!!!!

:clap

 

[AlexD333]

You'll get there, sometimes these problems can be a real pain in the arse, but you'll be a happy once it's sorted :thumb2

 

[rayf3262]

I think I shall have to take it out for a run in the next day or so and get it nice and hot and try to recreate the problem.

Which/What lights should I be getting on the dash for the immobiliser?

I have an owners manual, however it was off Eb*y and is not completely correct for my vehicle, but gives me most of what I need.

I am moderately ok with a bag of spanners, how easy is the CKPS to change?

Thanks solarman216 for the offer of sourcing a replacement I'll come back to you when I've tried a recreation.

Thanks for all your help today, please keep an eye on this thread and I'll try and recreate the fault and come back.

Starting to feel a bit more positive thatthe old girl will keep going!!!!

:clap

Normal operation for the IMMO light is:
with no key the light will flash around once per second.
with the key in and the turned to position 2 (prior) to start the light should be out.

The alternative sensor that Rick is referring to is a VAG product.
This sensor is electrically compatible but requires a spacer/shim to set the sensor in the correct position. This was a "fix" carried out by a member called revolver.

If you want to check the sensor then the ideal method would be to use an oscilloscope.
A continuity check should show a coil resistance of around 1000 ohms, if this checks ok, it is does not prove the sensor is good. Just that it's coil is not goosed.

However as a rough check a DVM set to AC volts should show in excess of 2.5VAC when cranking.
Check it when cold and then hot and see if there is a significant difference.

 

[emjaybee]

Update...

Back again!

Update. Unlock truck and get in. Immo light flashing approx every two seconds. Key in and turn to second position, light goes out, glow light comes on and then goes out. Turn key, start truck, roar off into the distance!

Take it for a 15/20 min run to get nice and warm.

Turn it off, remove key, immo light comes on after a few seconds and flashes approx every two seconds.

Now...

Immo light flashing approx every two seconds. Key in and turn to second position, light goes out, after a couple of seconds light flashes six times in quick succesion and then stays on! Glow light does NOT come on. Truck will not start.

It did this a couple of times, then it did the normal stuff and started and then it went back to the not starting deal. This is kind of normal pattern, except twice now it would not start at all and had to be recovered as previously mentioned.

Answers on a postcard PLEASE!...

This is why I kinda feel it might be immo problem. would anybody like to have a stab at diagnosis.

On the CKPS note, where is it on the engine, if possible I'd like to check that out as well. Covering all bases!

:surrender

 

[solarman216]

I will leave this to ray, but my money will be on the csps, yes as ray says the cheaper one needs a spacer, but it works and a whole lot cheaper, Rick

 

[emjaybee]

Time to go shopping...

I will get a new CKPS and see if that does the trick, I am struggling to identify it on the engine, not sure if I'm being a bit thick, I am looking at the lower have of the engine, is it there or higher up?

Anybody got any ideas what the six flashes of the immobiliser means?

On the up side... wife took the copy key into Timpsons to get them to check the chip and they stuck a new one in free of charge!

"All hail Timpsons"

 

[solarman216]

the cps will be in one of two places, Hitachi maf it will be on the top of the front timing cover. Bosch and it will be on the top of the bell housing, Rick

 

[emjaybee]

Been a while...

Hello again, been awhile,

Now, this non-starting issue we discussed back in July. I won't bore you with all the details, but, have changed the Crankshaft Position Sensor (eventually).

Made no differnece to starting problem. When it won't start this is what I get with the Immobiliser light:

Immo light flashing approx every two seconds. Key in and turn to second position, light goes out, after a couple of seconds light flashes six times in quick succesion and then stays on! Glow light does NOT come on. Truck will not start.

Has anyone got ANY idea what the hell is wrong?

HEEEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPP !!!!!!:banghead:banghead:banghead

 

[AlexD333]

Hello again, been awhile,

Now, this non-starting issue we discussed back in July. I won't bore you with all the details, but, have changed the Crankshaft Position Sensor (eventually).

Made no differnece to starting problem. When it won't start this is what I get with the Immobiliser light:

Immo light flashing approx every two seconds. Key in and turn to second position, light goes out, after a couple of seconds light flashes six times in quick succesion and then stays on! Glow light does NOT come on. Truck will not start.

Has anyone got ANY idea what the hell is wrong?

HEEEEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPP !!!!!!:banghead:banghead:banghead

Given the time delay I guess this is not your daily drive?

Why don't you bite the bullet and ring nissan, just make sure you ask how much to diagnose, then you could get anyone to do the work, usually half an hour or hours labour is the norm, you then have the choice of what to do and where to go :thumbs

 

[emjaybee]

Hmmm...

This may sound odd...

hadn't thought of that!

The delay between early threads and now was vehicle sorned for summer, me being self-employed (property maintenance), holidays, illness and death in family.

Quite the year !

 

[panelbeater]

the good news is you have eliminated the cps,the bad news is you have not solved the fault,but all feed back to this sight is off use so thank you.
sorry i cant help but it looks as it might be the imm/key chip.
a while ago someone in france had the none starting and i think it had to go to nissan to go reset.

 

[emjaybee]

Next move...

Thanks for input, next move will be trip to Nissan (if I can get it started!)

May be a while before I manage to get it there, I'll keep you posted.

 

[emjaybee]

Bunch of w......

Don't ever bother with Nissan Banbury.

Insist I book vehicle in to have fault codes read, won't be able to see vehicle until 20 days time!

Despite asking, VERY nicely, wouldn't consider seeing car earlier just to read codes.

I am in Hook Norton, half way between Chipping Norton and Banbury, can anyone suggest someone in this area who may be able to read the codes on my truck?

HEEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPPPP:jerkit: