Intermittent fueling issue?

[johnleddo]

Another flat battery& still no diesel at the injectors. Is it possible that the NATS could have been stopping the fuel intermittently in the past and now its just stopping it all the time?

Also does anyone have a wiring diagram? A friend has suggested finding out which wires provide power to the pump and just check its getting power.

 

[RJL Services]

if you have had the battery off for a while it may be worth the easy start to see if it wakes it up in the past when I have had a flat battery and fitted a new one I have had the problem of it not starting but a squirt of easy start seemed to reset something worth a shout nothing to lose mine been fine since and have done this quite a few times on others when battery has died :thumb2

 

[panelbeater]

i flattered a full good battery,it sounds like your battery is not fully charged or its on the way out.it should turn it over a darn sight more than 20 times.
also make sure fuel stop solionid is clicking when ignition is turned on.
undo all fuel feeds starting from ip side of fuel filter then pump till fuel is coming out of the pipe,when it does put back then disconnect next pipe at top of ip banjo pump filter till fuel comes out then reconnect banjo pipe,by then fuel filter pump will be hard,next crack open each injector 1 at a time while some one turns it over,once you have fuel through each pipe make sure they are all done up.if no start then a little easystart into air filter engine side of the maf.if it runs a bit on easystart but not from ip me thinks its ip again.
i have left my 2.7 for a few weeks with no battery when welding apun reconnection it started right away so do not think in naps.
if still no go then connect a small fuel tank directly to ip and try,if that fails then you could have got a bum ip,better to get from a known seller rather than unknown.

 

[johnleddo]

Thanks for the tip, I have tried it with easy start& it'll fire but not stay running. Im begining to think theres something stopping the diesel

 

[RJL Services]

you have installed a new pump so it will be dry so it may take some time to get it full off fuel and free of air make sure fuel filter is sealed and plunger pumped untill hard then turn it a couple of times and the pump plunger again you may have to do this a bit to get it to stay hard maybe priming pump is allowing air in just a thought :nenau

 

[johnleddo]

Thanks panelbeater I'll try all that tomorrow. I have loosened the banjo bolt and pumped the filter pump until there is a steady flow of diesel at the banjo but not done it coupling by coupling so I can try that tomorrow.

I hear what you're saying re reputable sellers in terms of time the pump swap was relatively quick best part of a day taking my time. But the bleeding process has been going on days now! Hopefully I'm not fighting with a faulty pump. It gives me some hope that i have had it running and ticking over smoothly with this pump.

 

[Banshee]

Watching this and wishing you the best of luck, please do keep us posted as this will all be great info when I come to do mine.

 

[johnleddo]

Thanks RJLservices I have managed to get the filter pump to stay hard I have also installed clear pipes into the filter and out of it which was a good tip as i can niw see an air bubble that sits in the pipe feeding into the filter, it occasionally disappears into the filter but usually returns to the clear pipe.

 

[johnleddo]

Another thing a friend asked was is the fuel pump controled by a relay? As the symptoms of intermittent faults could be caused by a sticking relay?

 

[johnleddo]

Had another code reader on the car the other day which showed a nats fault which would make sense if no diesel is being supplied to the injectors.

I contacted a local guy who can re programme ecus etc he said he cant do much with a nats system and said my best bet would be to swap the electrical components from the old pump onto the new one. I stripped the newly installed pump back off&set about this&it quickily became apparent that it wasnt going to be possible. I contacted the electrical guy again who said to send him some pictures and he'd see if there was anything he could do. After looking at the pics of the pump he said he couldn't see anything on it that would relate to a nats system!

Does anyone know deffinately if they are or aren't coded to the ecu?

This is getting confusing however maybe i should reinstall the old pump and see if the nats code shows again.

 

[rayf3262]

As far as I am aware there is no possibility of coding the VP37 IP to the ECU. (it's a dumb pump & contains no active components)
The ECU does however control the fuel shut off on the IP, this can be defeated with a simple wiring mod. In fact you should check the coil resistance as per the manual and verify that it could at least work. Once you got that far you may as well connect it directly to 12+VE and short of a mechanical issue be reasonably certain the fuel taps are open!

However I do not know if the ECU when in NATS lockout mode would continue to operate the fuel quantity adjuster normally, there is a reasonable possibility that it may.
Only one way to find out.......

 

[johnleddo]

Thanks very much for the advice. When you say the ecu controls the fuel shut off do you mean the solenoid on the fuel pump? And the wiring mod would be to connect the solenoid to a 12v supply somehow? Sorry if my questions are basic. This appears to be a learning experience that just keeps on giving!

 

[rayf3262]

Yes, you have the gist of it.
have a trawl through the EC section of the manual, Page 376 or thereabouts shows the fuel cut solenoid test procedure.

 

[Bigbunny2007]

Just read all this thread from the beginning and I'm not convinced its the ip! I'd try towing it and trying to bump it of and see if you can get it going that way. If its only turning over 20 times id say your starter motor is on its way out. Gives symptoms of flats battery!
Get towing you have nothing to lose :thumb2

 

[solarman216]

I did a test on a Bosch pump for another member the other day, first turned the ignition on and checked the solenoid for voltage, "0" so started the motor and 12v on terminal, so have to guess that the ECU applies 12v on turning to start position once NATS has been satisfied, unable to verify this as on my own, but guess it must be the case or it would not have started, not sure if applying 12v to terminal direct would work as this may be seen by NATS as a theft, and if ECU wire disconnected then 12v applied to solenoid may also be seen by ECU as theft as ECU will not see solenoid resistance, a way round that could be use a slave solenoid, Rick

 

[rayf3262]

I did a test on a Bosch pump for another member the other day, first turned the ignition on and checked the solenoid for voltage, "0" so started the motor and 12v on terminal, so have to guess that the ECU applies 12v on turning to start position once NATS has been satisfied, unable to verify this as on my own, but guess it must be the case or it would not have started, not sure if applying 12v to terminal direct would work as this may be seen by NATS as a theft, and if ECU wire disconnected then 12v applied to solenoid may also be seen by ECU as theft as ECU will not see solenoid resistance, a way round that could be use a slave solenoid, Rick

It is possible the ECU may not play nicely if the solenoid is disconnected, but it is an unknown at this time. If it where a VP 44 I'd definitely so no chance but the 2.7 IP is still fundamentaly a mechanical pump with limited ECU control.

However with fuel going into the IP it should at least start, and idle at the very least. Which gets to a known point.
BB's towing suggestion is also worth a punt...

 

[solarman216]

It is possible the ECU may not play nicely if the solenoid is disconnected, but it is an unknown at this time. If it where a VP 44 I'd definitely so no chance but the 2.7 IP is still fundamentaly a mechanical pump with limited ECU control.

However with fuel going into the IP it should at least start, and idle at the very least. Which gets to a known point.
BB's towing suggestion is also worth a punt...

Agreed but the ECU could disable starting if theft suspected by not reading the CPS, I am sure Nissan/NATS would have covered simple overriding of the cut off solenoid, on NATS1 we could bypass on bangers but not NATS 2, Rick

 

[panelbeater]

on an old overheated bx,after head off and rebuild etc it would not start no matter what so i got a tow and it started,got hot bled air ext so a good un.
following day it would not start so started going through things like we do,traced it to all glow plugs,removed replaced and walla all ok from then on.
i know its not relavent to you but the tow try is.

 

[panelbeater]

anyone got a pump he can borrow as he said a days work,took me 4 days as i have fkd back and had to stop to rest lots.i have a pump but its fkd the one i took off and replaced with ricks one,sorry to say it had same symptoms as yours.my younger brother told me it was my ip months befor i finally gave in,i got the i told you so etc.
he had the knowledge being a very good mechanic that kept a fleet of 100 london black cabs with the terry lump in them going so should have listened but it runs i say then it dont then went again then it dont but in my head it was not the ip but it was.
i have no brain input on nats as i tried to keep to old school lumps that are easy to repair,my terrys got ecu shit on them but very little input to ip,you got the old pump out take the fuel cut off of off it being very watch full of any seals and connect it to a battery and make sure it works if it does change them over closing one path in fault finding.

 

[johnleddo]

Thank you all for the continued input. I have tried the towing approach behind a friends hilux, tried towing it with the injectors cracked at first to hopefully get rid of any air then nipped them up&towed it again a couple of times but still no life from the engine.

I'm fairly sure the starter is ok, I must have recharged and flattend the starting battery more than 15 times trying to sort this out so it will have took its toll on the battery.

I re installed the new pump again yesterday with a wire attached to the solenoid. Ran out of time to fit the timing gear so will do that hopefully later this week coming and see if the nats thing can be bypassed to the solenoid. Hopefully that might work! If not back to the drawing board!

If i can't get it going over the next two weeks I'll have seriously consider its future which is a shame because its the perfect vehicle for my needs.