Intercooler

[jace]

didnt scoobys used to fit water injection to spray onto it,get it even colder?

 

[Adz]

Heres one for you.....................

Cant make my mind up :nenau

I think its fair to say we all agree fairly well that that an intercooler needs to be errrr...................cooled.

Well moving on the thought process, which will use the most fuel ?????

A fuel / air mix thats well cooled from an efficient intercooler

or

A fuel / air mix where the intercooler hasnt been doing its job very well :nenau

and WHY ?


Im stuck :nenau:nenau

general not specific but applicable to any you wish really.

my opinion,

an efficient inter cooler will be better for MPG - as it should produce more power so less revs required.

now I'll wait to be proved wrong :augie

:thumbs

The latter I assume. Logic as follows:

The MAF senses a given air temperature and, on the assumption that the intercooler is going to do its job, tells the ECU to inject a given amount of fuel for the amount of oxygen it knows should be ingested at that air temperature and density.

But, if the intercooler doesn't do its job, then the air entering the cylinders will be hotter and therefore less dense and therefore have less oxygen, so the engine will effectively be running rich and use more fuel than it needs to.

Make sense?

:clap :thumbs

 

[jace]

i havent got one,wouldnt mind getting one of sommat else and bolting on,you should see size of them on sprinter vans pipes about 3-4" no wonder they go like shite of preverbial!

 

[Adz]

i havent got one,wouldnt mind getting one of sommat else and bolting on,you should see size of them on sprinter vans pipes about 3-4" no wonder they go like shite of preverbial!

Its a tricky subject & alot of maths when adding an inter-cooler to a non inter-cooled vehicle no matter if its petrol or diesel :thumbs

I done a lot of testing on 1 of my Scoobys at Engine Advantages when trying out some prototype inter-coolers :thumbs

 

[jace]

its a zd3.0td same as fitted to trolls but no cooler,tweke (hes from nz and loves playin with his engine) of navara forum said they thought new zealand to hot to bother with one

 

[makeitfit]

didnt scoobys used to fit water injection to spray onto it,get it even colder?

Got water spray on mine :sly

 

[Adz]

its a zd3.0td same as fitted to trolls but no cooler,tweke (hes from nz and loves playin with his engine) of navara forum said they thought new zealand to hot to bother with one

I can see where there coming from but unless your talking desert heat i can't see it making a difference at speed on road but off road then i would agree.

 

[jace]

the south african hardbody versions same,plenty power no lag eats the 2.7tdi tops out at about ton though!
theres a drive i use about two miles long with trees on one side nav is doing extra 15+mph at same point as maverick did
my bonnet has no intercooler scoop so if u see navs with no scoop 3.0td 16v imports!

 

[lacroupade]

The fan is only a benefit at low speeds to help prevent heat soak.
as soon as any sort of speed is avail say over 20mph , then there's loads of air through the engine bay up and down through the I/C. As you say Paul your KnN induction works fine.
The fan I have on mine is designed to run either way , so as speed increases then the fan will be turned by in coming air, so no restriction to speak of.

But thats exactly why there WILL be loss of airflow....energy (and airflow speed) is lost in turning that fan...you might not think its a lot but it is and it reduces the airflow as a result. I mean look at the manufacturers, as I've said, the Smart diesel with its engine-in-a-suitcase is the only vehicle I can think of thats fitted with an OEM i/c fan....

I might even get the sums done for you by a European Engineer (the highest engineering qualification you can get).

 

[Adz]

But thats exactly why there WILL be loss of airflow....energy (and airflow speed) is lost in turning that fan...you might not think its a lot but it is and it reduces the airflow as a result. I mean look at the manufacturers, as I've said, the Smart diesel with its engine-in-a-suitcase is the only vehicle I can think of thats fitted with an OEM i/c fan....

I might even get the sums done for you by a European Engineer (the highest engineering qualification you can get).

Can't argue with that :thumbs

That's why i haven't bothered putting 1 on the Frog, I don't think it would benefit.
The 1 thing I can say for a definite is that the K&N or similar is the best on the Frog as the snorkel restrict's & the factory 1 is poo :lol

 

[Deleted account DD]

Ok I'll come clean. My thermostat was knackered on the jeep so I blanked off the radiator for a couple of weeks to keep the temp up, good old cardboard and bodge tape. Worked a treat.

Last weekend new thermostat and rad blanking removed , its like a new car :clap:clap:clap

Twas only then that i realised i'd closed off the airflow over the intercooler too so not surprisingly its running a lot better ..... oops :doh:doh just hadnt crossed my mind.

However Im still on my economy drive and no other factors have changed yet the average fuel consumption is definitely up (done hundreds of miles the last week :thumb2).

WHY :nenau:nenau wtf is going on, i would ave thought consumption would have decreased :nenau:nenau

Not complaining becuse the truck is running better and lesson learnt but im confused as a very confused person.

 

[Adz]

Ok I'll come clean. My thermostat was knackered on the jeep so I blanked off the radiator for a couple of weeks to keep the temp up, good old cardboard and bodge tape. Worked a treat.

Last weekend new thermostat and rad blanking removed , its like a new car :clap:clap:clap

Twas only then that i realised i'd closed off the airflow over the intercooler too so not surprisingly its running a lot better ..... oops :doh:doh just hadnt crossed my mind.

However Im still on my economy drive and no other factors have changed yet the average fuel consumption is definitely up (done hundreds of miles the last week :thumb2).

WHY :nenau:nenau wtf is going on, i would ave thought consumption would have decreased :nenau:nenau

Not complaining becuse the truck is running better and lesson learnt but im confused as a very confused person.

:augie :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :clap

That sort of proves my point with regards to intercoolers on diesel 4x4's against intercoolers on performance petrol cars.

Its to technical for me to explain but it's all mathematics :doh

When we peed about with intercoolers at Engine Advantages with my Scooby the results from changing the pipe size & intercooler size amazed me

But with regards to them on diesel's i think there better off without as they seem to have more power & run better.

If you want to do your own little experiment & if its not to fiddly, exchange your intercooler for a peice of pipe & or tubbing & compare fuel economy etc. :thumbs

Be interesting to know the outcome...

 

[The Patrolman]

It's not power you need it's ground clearance!!!

But Yes, engine not up to temperature, no airflow ove rthe intercooler - it willl not be on form!!

As for the MAF Sensor, the mass of the air entering the system and the amount of oxygen in that air will not change, it will just be more comperssed so tyhe ECU knows how much fuel to squirt in for the amount of air entering the system.

Bolyle's Law states PV=NRT

Pressure x volume is proportional to temperature. + some other constants!!!

So if you increase the pressure (Turbo) and reduce the temperature (Intercooler) the volume of air and oxygen has to increase, so more fuel ...bigger bang...more power!!

 

[makeitfit]

So if you increase the pressure (Turbo) and reduce the temperature (Intercooler) the volume of air and oxygen has to increase, so more fuel ...bigger bang...more power!!

I thank you, I hated chemistry in school
Anyway I know the fan on the intercooler is turned by the incoming air, but it matters very little. The fan blades are designed to interfere with air flow as little as possible, it's a bit like an aeroplane feathering it's prop. However the loss of air cooling is bugger all I say. The benefit though is that at LOW speeds where there is no airflow from forward ram effect THEN the fan can force some air through the I/C thus keeping the charge temp down. So I can get as much torque as poss pre turbo in the muck. It works for me so there
On a sunny day with a bit of water squirted over the I/C and then some fan action things get right chilled:thumbs

 

[The Patrolman]

And from what i've seen of intercoolers, a darn goog clean to remove all the oily 5H!t3 to let the air through is worth more than a mass debate!!!

 

[makeitfit]

Yep did mine last year and the goo that came out was like marmite
I've since removed the oil blow by thing so just got clean air going in now and no insulating oil to stop cooling:thumbs

 

[Adz]

Yep did mine last year and the goo that came out was like marmite
I've since removed the oil blow by thing so just got clean air going in now and no insulating oil to stop cooling:thumbs

Thats the 1st thing i did when i got if you remeber me old buddy :thumbs with my nice yellow garden hose :augie :lol

 

[The Patrolman]

I thank you, I hated chemistry in school
The fan blades are designed to interfere with air flow as little as possible, :thumbs

No the fan blades are designed to interfere with the air as much as possible that's why it's call a fan and not 'Just some spining blades!':augie

 

[Deleted account DD]

It's not power you need it's ground clearance!!!

:lol:lol

But Yes, engine not up to temperature, no airflow ove rthe intercooler - it willl not be on form!!

As for the MAF Sensor, the mass of the air entering the system and the amount of oxygen in that air will not change, it will just be more comperssed so tyhe ECU knows how much fuel to squirt in for the amount of air entering the system.

Bolyle's Law states PV=NRT

Pressure x volume is proportional to temperature. + some other constants!!!

So if you increase the pressure (Turbo) and reduce the temperature (Intercooler) the volume of air and oxygen has to increase, so more fuel ...bigger bang...more power!!

cheers steve :thumb2

 

[makeitfit]

No the fan blades are designed to interfere with the air as much as possible that's why it's call a fan and not 'Just some spining blades!':augie

No it's designed to interfere when powered thus driving air, but when not powered then the ram air can pass the blades with little resistance
If you see what I mean