Insult from a Land Rover owner!!

[makeitfit]

still dont get it, your terrano will have a train weight.
car or 4x4 is not important.
i will check with my pet trafic cop in morning.

Whoa Nelly , "Pet traffic cop"
Now I've got to get me one of those

 

[kbekl]

i tow leagly for work all the time, very rare to see trailers on the roof, but caravans, well......
make sure you have plenty of nose weight, if not, crash.
as you say, 85% is rule of thumb, how much do you think and artic tractor unit weighs, compared to its trailer?
yes i know, air brakes, but i can drive one.
still not sure what is being said about weight.
average trailer even our ifors are only 5 or 600kg empty, are you saying beacuse its max mass is 3500kg you cant tow it empty?
not true, i will check with the law in the morning, but it make no sense, i know lots of laws dont, but it just doesnt.
maximum towing weight is unit being towed, maximum train weight is towing vehicle weight plus towed vehicle weight.
hence 5310kg for terrano.

thats nearly twice its written max

so why would they put it down at 2800kg ??

i dont get this law

right i get it

Just had a look at the VIN plate, it says:
GVW 2600
GCW 6100 (i'm guessing GCW and GTW are the same?)

This means max i can tow is 3500, I deduct from this the weight of us and our stuff and that will give me the weight I can pull. The total of everything must not be more than 6100

VOSA towing laws state that the max weight your trailer can carry (even if you never load it this much) must be equal to or less than what your vehicle can tow which it is so it's all good.

 

[badger]

yep you got it, train weight is all up weight, towing weight is just that, weight you can tow on top of car/4x4 weight.
so i underestimated at 5300kg.

pet trafic cops are ok, but can bite

 

[Muckypup]

VOSA towing laws state that the max weight your trailer can carry (even if you never load it this much) must be equal to or less than what your vehicle can tow which it is so it's all good.

so am i reading this right, a vehicle say max tow 2800kgs cant therefore tow a 3500kg trailer laden or unladen only a vehicle rated to 3500kg as its equal or less than

 

[badger]

not full, but up to 2800.
but, depends on load of terrano, full? 7 people, roofrack?
must check that all up weight is not more than mam or train weight.
you may still need to argue with mr.pc, but this i am pretty sure is corect.

but lets be honest, we all know what does and does not feel safe, be careful towing, and if you do it a lot, be more carfull, as we all know what happens.

 

[kbekl]

so am i reading this right, a vehicle say max tow 2800kgs cant therefore tow a 3500kg trailer laden or unladen only a vehicle rated to 3500kg as its equal or less than

i have sort of figured it out tho

right if ou have say a terrano that weights in at 2000kg and the GCW is 4800kg

the you can tow upto 2800kg with no one in the car :augie

it is all to do with what you are carrying in the car as well

but you are right you cant carry a trailer that has a mam higher than 2800kg

http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/preparing.aspx

 

[Muckypup]

And there it is third point down... so i'm right and the trailer cant be towed if its rated over the vehicles rating

 

[Muckypup]

question 3 on this page -

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/1358

 

[geoffdown]

question 3 on this page -

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/1358

yes even if u had a tralier rated at 3500kg the terrano can not tow it even if unloaded as max tow weight is 2800kg well thats if you get bstopped by the police:doh they c it that as the tralier can carry more you would carry more than what the car can tow but u wouldnt would you:augie but thats the law:doh

 

[badger]

from a trafic cop point of view, weight he is interested in as below is the laden weight, he will take you to the weighbridge if he feels unit looks unsafe.
is the ifor williams website is refering to comercial vehicles, not plg, as all cars and 4x4 are.
we have 4 of there trailers i can ask them.
you cant exceed maximum train weight, you cant exceed maximum towing weight.
but even that said, if they feel the driver is not safe with load, no matter how heavy they will take action.

was this thread not meant to be lr bashing?
got off track


Department for Transport guide to legal requirements for trailers and towing
Statement

Requirements regarding trailers used on the road are given in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended (C&U) and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended (RVLR). The following is a summary of the main requirements.

1 Weight
In the case of light trailers, that are less than 3500kg in maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.

The maximum laden weight of a trailer, which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both:

■the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and
■the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight.
Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight nor the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded.

It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the C&U.
If the towing vehicle has a permissible gross weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes the maximum width and length of the trailer are 2.55 metres and 12 metres respectively. If, however, the gross weight of the towing vehicle is 3.5 tonnes or less, then the maximum permissible width and length are 2.3 metres and 7 metres respectively. In both cases, the overall length of the towing vehicle and trailer must not exceed either 18m or 18.75m depending on the type of towing vehicle.

The definition in C&U of the overall length of a trailer makes it clear that the coupling device and draw-bar are not included in the length dimension. In the case of a caravan, where a protective box is mounted on to the front, which is supported on the draw-bar for the purpose of storage gas tanks, for example, this box is included in the overall length.

These requirements also apply to visiting vehicles. Under Regulation 4(4) Item 2 of C&U, we permit a vehicle to be brought into Great Britian by a person resident abroad, provided that the vehicle complies in every respect with the requirements relating to motor vehicles or trailers contained in:
Braking requirements are prescribed in Regulations 15 and 16 of The Road Vehicles (Construction &Use) Regulations 1986 as amended.

■A trailer with a maximum design laden weight of more than 750 kg must be braked.
■An inertia (overrun) type braking system may be used up to a maximum permissible laden weight of 3500kg.
■It is not permitted to use an unbraked trailer, the laden weight of which exceeds 50% of the kerbside weight of the towing vehicle.
■For trailers up to 1500kg laden weight, it is permitted to use secondary coupling, which in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling, will retain the trailer attached to the towing vehicle, prevent the nose of the trailer from touching the ground and provide some residual steering of the trailer.
■Above 1500 kg laden weight, the trailer must be fitted with a device to stop the trailer automatically in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling. This is normally achieved by a breakaway cable attached to the parking brake mechanism where the trailer becomes detached from the towing vehicle.

 

[Muckypup]

To be honest though it tends to be VOSA that jump on you nowadays rather than traffic cops, weight wont come into it with those buggers... major revenue collectors!


It might be worth a mod chopping this bit of the thread off and starting a new one with it, that way this thread can get back to Landy bashing

I HATE SMUG GREEN OVALS AND THEIR HYDRAULIC BRAKES THAT ALLOW 4 TON + LOADS :lol

 

[kbekl]

wounder what happens to the load when the air sus collapses :lol

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

no trailer should weigh more than towing vehicle, but there are exceptions to this, but im not too sure what they are, the 85% for caravans is not a legal requirement but a guide to safe towing. :thumbs

we have been through this on here so many times and if the 'no trailer heavier than the towing vehicle' rule was true, then not many trailers would move! My t2 has a towing capacity of 2.8 tonnes which is much greater than its weight. A range rover has a capacity of 5 tonnes ditto.

A trailer with a gross weight of 3.5 tones is common, a car weighing more than that is not!

If this 100% thing were true ifor williams would go out of buisness and no sheep catttle or horses would be moved anywhere again!

 

[badger]

ok, sado here has spoken to some people this morning!
all are as confused, vosa just seem to be using confusion to there own end.
but the final person i spoke to is a dvla approved driving instructor.
if you hold b+E the mam of the trailer may exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.
the mam of my ford maverick is 5380kg, so i can tow a total weight of 2800kg in my 3500kg mam trailer, so have to underload trailer.
the loaded weight of combined unit may not exceed the mam.

people without b+e test after 97 may not drive a vehicle with a mam greater than 3500kg, which does rather beg the question, do they need to take a test to drive a l/r or terrano or similar??
maybe someone knows, this seems even more a grey area?
or maybe this is more gvw area, again all very confusing.

but happy now my trailer towing is ok, one point of interst, a non b+e driver may tow an overweight trailer if for the reason of recovering a vehicle, restriction on how far etc. but.....

 

[apenn]

While on the last BCCC event at Walters Arena. I was asked to take two co drivers around the 7 mile course.
It was only when I got back to the service area that I was told that some of the other marshals mainly disco drivers did not expect me to get round. Given I only had M&S tyres on.
They were all amazed on how easy I made it look.
Just have a look at this go to face book and you will see some of the courses we drive. http://www.marches4x4.com/bccc.html

 

[lacroupade]

Walters Arena/QUOTE]

Walters - a despicable bunch of arsewiping bar stewards...thanks a lot for getting the Sarn closed lads.:doh

 

[kbekl]

ok, sado here has spoken to some people this morning!
all are as confused, vosa just seem to be using confusion to there own end.
but the final person i spoke to is a dvla approved driving instructor.
if you hold b+E the mam of the trailer may exceed the weight of the towing vehicle.
the mam of my ford maverick is 5380kg, so i can tow a total weight of 2800kg in my 3500kg mam trailer, so have to underload trailer.
the loaded weight of combined unit may not exceed the mam.

people without b+e test after 97 may not drive a vehicle with a mam greater than 3500kg, which does rather beg the question, do they need to take a test to drive a l/r or terrano or similar??
maybe someone knows, this seems even more a grey area?
or maybe this is more gvw area, again all very confusing.

but happy now my trailer towing is ok, one point of interst, a non b+e driver may tow an overweight trailer if for the reason of recovering a vehicle, restriction on how far etc. but.....

you got me their lol

just had a look and the b license covers up to 3500kg gvw not the mam that only comes into it when towing lol

i can drive a vehicle that is 3500kg but when towing i cant go above a mam of 4250kg

so does that mean i cant tow with a trooper as that has a mam of 6100kg

 

[96terrano]

Can't believe I've never seen this thread:doh

I have also been I victim, I simply asked a question on a facebook 4X4 site of where to get some good quality carpet for my 'terrano' in this defender guy said just scrap it ans get a proper 4X4, I said nah mate, I need it for towing the landys out 'as a joke', and then it all kicked of, this guy got really nasty and abusive like saying propper nasty offensive stuff, one of my other friends with a D22 came in on my behalf too and he eventually shut up

Ohh and theirs also my dad's mate who's got a discovery, he got really nasty to my face about my terrano

So landrover snobbery does exist, they just seem to be a bunch of nasty bastards a lot of them.

 

[mymini007]

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

:clap:clap:clap:clap

I have to say, most of the what I would call "Real Landrover guys", are a great bunch, and can appreciate any decent off roader for it's ability. It's the ones who know nothing about mechanics, or driving, and just buy a Landrover or Rangerover, usually already set up for off roading or get a mate to do it, so they have not done any work, that try it on. They then rely on brute force, and speed to get everywhere, rather than skill.

When we had the SJ, my wife had was so good at getting into the furthest corners of the Pay and Play days before getting stuck, that when the landy's came to pull us out, they would have to winch to get to us, then extract us, then would be winching back out, as we drove off barely leaving tracks in the surface of the mud under us.. They all used to say that the great thing with the Jap cars was how light they were, so did not not need all the bells and whistles to get to the same places as they did, and in the case of the SJ could go through gaps a Landy could not even dream of. Horses of courses, and they all had their place.

Still, we never broke a half shaft though.:lol