Harlowmavericks motor

[carpy33]

Hope you manage to sort it all out Harlowmaverick. Due to being at Rick's today I made some telephone calls and I'm waiting on one of the guys to get back to me. He has a friend who is a diesel specialist so fingers crossed I will have some good news. I have asked him to look for the 3lt pump/ecu and Nats system.

Would like to say a huge thank you to rick (solarman216) for all of his hard work today. Superb welding and got me out of a hole :clap

 

[harlowmaverick]

Thanks for your help carpy, Rick truly is one of the good guys and hopefully eloco's advice may pan out and work a treat.
Just spoke to Rick and eloco is getting a inline fuel pump for his, let's see if that cures his problem before ordering one for mine lolol.
Thanks for the interest guys in this problem, and thanks for everyone's input!

 

[AlexD333]

Reading back it sounds intense!

Did previous owner use bio or veggie? I always hear the 3.0 is a nono for that.

 

[harlowmaverick]

the previous idiot, I mean owner made his own bio and used it in the vehicle until it broke! Tw@t springs to mind!

 

[solarman216]

Well made some headway, had a little time this am and stuck a submersible petrol pump on it in a 25 ltr drum of fuel, pressure was clearly a bit high as I could see the hoses swell, but nonetheless ran it up and it was a whole lot better, but I fear the pressure was around 60 psi so shut it down and went off to work, got back a little early this afternoon and had formulated a workround in my head during the day, this was to put a tee in the line and bleed it back off to the drum with a G cramp on it to vary the pressure, yet another improvement, then connected a 15 psi gauge to it and at idling set it at 6 psi, 3k revs saw it go back to 0 so set it to about 12 psi, at 3k it still dropped but only to around 4 psi, however it was running near perfect, one or two little blips but bearing in mind this was all cobbled together with odd bits of pipe and connectors, and I could see the odd air bubble I think this is a very good result, we just now need to establish what pressure this IP should run at then get a regulated pump to suite, wonder what luck eloco had today, Rick

 

[rustic]

Rick, maybe any pump that can deliver the pressure and volume will do, if you have an adjustable pressure reducing valve, or bypass valve, returning the excess fuel to the tank, but not sure if they will survive diesel etc.
Just a thought...

If it was water, I would suggest a triple headed diaphragm pump with pressure switch, like on pressurised water systems on caravans and boats, again...may not survive the diesel.

Also there is the safety issue... you don't want diesel under pressure forming a mist in the event of an accident

Rustic

 

[rayf3262]

As far as I can see the spill valve is the part of the return path to the main tank, as such it purpose may be something to do with maintains the internal pump pressure?
Which makes me wonder if the delivery pressure from the tank pump is low or marginal?

Right idea.... Wrong pump doh.
Anyhow the guys over at bluechip biodiesel reckon on 15 psi dropping to a minimum of 5 psi under full load.
This may prove to be a cheap work around for a veggie mullered VP44........

 

[solarman216]

Rustic, thanks for the input, however the large difference in fuel usage between idle and 3 to 3.5k revs is too much for stationary, so this cannot be because it is being burnt or the motor would be doing 5 mpg so it has to be the way the pump regulates itself and maybe keeps itself cool, so I think a variable output pump with a built in pressure sensor switch is called for, but more research is needed, perhaps a call to this "diesel bob" is in order, re the safety issues it would be wired trough the ignition system so key off = pump off, safer in fact than the in tank petrol pumps for fuel injection motors I reckon, Rick

 

[solarman216]

Ray thanks for that, it gives me something to work with, 15 psi dropping to 5 on full load is at least something to aim for, Rick

 

[Eloco]

Well made some headway, had a little time this am and stuck a submersible petrol pump on it in a 25 ltr drum of fuel, pressure was clearly a bit high as I could see the hoses swell, but nonetheless ran it up and it was a whole lot better, but I fear the pressure was around 60 psi so shut it down and went off to work, got back a little early this afternoon and had formulated a workround in my head during the day, this was to put a tee in the line and bleed it back off to the drum with a G cramp on it to vary the pressure, yet another improvement, then connected a 15 psi gauge to it and at idling set it at 6 psi, 3k revs saw it go back to 0 so set it to about 12 psi, at 3k it still dropped but only to around 4 psi, however it was running near perfect, one or two little blips but bearing in mind this was all cobbled together with odd bits of pipe and connectors, and I could see the odd air bubble I think this is a very good result, we just now need to establish what pressure this IP should run at then get a regulated pump to suite, wonder what luck eloco had today, Rick

Phoned up to get the overflow valve today to be told they didn't have it in stock coming direct from Bosch. :doh I had a bit of a mess by feeding straight from the tank to the pump. At first it set off straight away but stuttered higher in the rev range which was the opposite too what it had been doing. But then the longer it ran it started to bog down again on initial pick up. Looking at your figures the 15/16 psi is around the opening pressure for the valve so would make sense that if you were giving it constant pressure around there it would run better. Just have to wait for this valve now. Sorry about the ramble

 

[solarman216]

Contacted diesel bob, explained the problem, no hesitation pump stuffed, Rick

 

[solarman216]

gets deeper and deeper, seems this pump should have an external lift pump, but this seems to be on the US side Dodge etc, it seems there is a pressure port to check but unable to find details as to its location so far although a schrader (tyre) valve has been mentioned, Rick

 

[Eloco]

gets deeper and deeper, seems this pump should have an external lift pump, but this seems to be on the US side Dodge etc, it seems there is a pressure port to check but unable to find details as to its location so far although a schrader (tyre) valve has been mentioned, Rick

Read quite a few bits on the American pumps on Cummins and the like wasn't sure how much related to our pumps as most of the engines are six cylinder and six ltr. Did find this snippet though regarding pressure and lift pumps which for size of engine and fuel they must guzzle are not high. http://www.fassride.com/fasstech/frequently-asked-questions-faq.php

 

[rayf3262]

Here's the spill return mod:
http://www.chaz.yellowfoot.org/Fuel Return Mod.htm
Note the use of external fuel pump!



Here's the OEM layout with spill return to IP inlet:

 

[solarman216]

Thanks Ray, yes it how this one is, feed to the rear with the LEAK OFF PIPE joining, never seen this configuration before so most confusing, but and there is a but, if this type of system is fed with an external pump then this connection goes from negative pressure to whatever the pump develops, then this could potentially be bad for the injectors, as they need a free leak off path to function correctly, I must point out by the way that within proper diesel terminology a SPILL PIPE is a piece of test kit that is used in place of a normal injector pipe which stands vertical and is full to the top, when it spills this determines actual injection timing or the spill point, just one of those things that annoys me, unfortunately it has become widespread use to refer to leak off pipes, Rick

 

[solarman216]

OK a general update, since running the 60 psi pump through the IP it has been running well, I have to wonder if there was a sticky but of congealed veg stuff blocking something in the IP that the high pressure shifted? even today it ran faultless, so decided to drain the tank of veggie, reluctant to try the tank bung, (not my motor) so pulled the return hose off of the tank connected an extension into a 25 ltr drum and ran the engine 35 ltrs later and it started to pass air bubbles engine still running, so shut it down not wanting to run it right out, having looked at a swirl pot realise that there will still be 10 mm fuel in the bottom of the tank so will be taking the gauge/pick up unit out to suck it dry and also check the pipes etc, interestingly there was a well rusty worm drive clip on the return pipe, anyway cut the pipe to get rid of it and reconnected the return to the tank, checked the cut off bit out and the clip was compressing the rubber pipe to cause a restriction, I should add that the flow from this pipe is full bore and will travel around 250 to 300 mm if held horizontal hence it only took around 20 mins to fill 35 ltrs, also I could not hold ny thumb over this pipe to stop the flow so this proves the pump pressure is fine, it may not have been before I used the electric pump but will never know that now, armed with what I have learnt so far I would attack this job differently in the future, as long as I write it down, :doh, Rick

 

[harlowmaverick]

All looking good then!:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2
Let me know when you need your parking space Rick!
Mmmm num num!
Better book that steak place when you happy with my truck lol
Still have the full exhaust system sitting in my conservatory :thumbs:augie:thumb2

 

[solarman216]

So today managed to remove the tank unit without shearing any of the bolts, surprised to find 25 mm of oil still in the tank, so sucked it out, and as it was a bit gunky, wiped it out with loads of rag, now have a nice clean tank, busy tomorrow but sat fuel lines will be replaced, damper pipe removed (rusty) as well a rear brake pipe, and new filter installed, local diesel guys do not want to know about the VP44, getting ahead of myself here but that is what is on the list, Rick

 

[AlexD333]

Awesome story to follow, sounds involved :thumb2

Good results too.

 

[Banshee]

Awesome story to follow, sounds involved :thumb2

Good results too.

Here here Alex, makes for great reading :clap