Gross Weight Question

[(RIP) PLANK]

Showmen regularly pull loads in excess of allowable train length, over weight, oversize, multiple trailer pulls, etc

Sorry, but this is not true,very few, if any showmans loads exceed allowable length, over weight is covered as is any heavy haulage by STGO and there is nothing wrong with multiple trailer pulls.

As Plank just pointed out a showmans licence gives leave for all sorts including running on tax free fuel

Again totally untrue !! I assume that when you say "a showmans licence" you are taliking about the road tax, if so then the rules regarding getting a vehicle registered as a "showmans special" are very strict and now Vosa require written proof at the side of the road that showmen are actually paid up members of a bona fida organisation with regard to the legality of their vehicle.

As for the tax free fuel, the only time red diesel can be used is in the generators, ALL road going vehicles must have white diesel in use and the penaltys for non compliance are the same for all.

cheers
Steve

sorry i am a bit lost ae you saying my comments are totaly untrue?

 

[tezzer]

Showmen regularly pull loads in excess of allowable train length, over weight, oversize, multiple trailer pulls, etc

Sorry, but this is not true,very few, if any showmans loads exceed allowable length, over weight is covered as is any heavy haulage by STGO and there is nothing wrong with multiple trailer pulls.

As Plank just pointed out a showmans licence gives leave for all sorts including running on tax free fuel

Again totally untrue !! I assume that when you say "a showmans licence" you are taliking about the road tax, if so then the rules regarding getting a vehicle registered as a "showmans special" are very strict and now Vosa require written proof at the side of the road that showmen are actually paid up members of a bona fida organisation with regard to the legality of their vehicle.



As for the tax free fuel, the only time red diesel can be used is in the generators, ALL road going vehicles must have white diesel in use and the penaltys for non compliance are the same for all.

cheers
Steve

regarding the diesel steve, tractors, jcb's etc, drive on the road, but they use red diesel, because they are classed as plant, and dont have to run on white,
showmans licence, this exempts the holder from having to have a operaters licence, and must have living quarters fitted, also, he must prove he is in the showmans circle. the vehicle must have multi purpose use aswell.

a very tricky law i reckon.:doh

 

[Muckypup]

Im sorry but I agree with Steve on the fuel issue!!!!!

The law is very clear on red diesel ITS NOT ROAD FUEL! You cannot even run tractors on red diesel on the road! Be it a JCB, Fast-Trac or anything.
The rules are clear, if you are taking your tractor on a road then you must not be more than two miles away from your base with red fuel in your tank. This is a big issue at the moment for agricultural contractors and many are finding themselves in court for exactly that...

Regarding the comment below i made earlier :

"PS - I am always wondering why you see certain folk getting away with a road train of several trailers, or a transit pick-up towing a massive triple axle caravan..."

Thanks for your explination PLANK, it was a question really, how is it i see some people getting away with towing a road train?
As far as I was aware road-trains of any type are not allowed therefore multipule trailers are un-lawful, no matter what business you are in. If there is a showman's license that allows this then that would be the answer to my question.
Regarding what you said about Transit trucks and towing caravans...
I HAVE A TRANSIT TRUCK WITH TOWING KIT. Are you telling me I can tow more with the Transit than my Maverick? As far as I was aware they both had the same towing rating as each other - 2800kgs

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

I think, not the think! that the licence that alows the towing of multiple trailers, is a historical thing, it dates from when such things were allowd on our roads, and people who towed them were allowed to carry on doing so, and still are for reasons of historical authenticty. Rather like a Balti house being able to employ only it's chosen racial group despit the race ralations act (and its amendments) for reaons of authenticity. I do not beleive it would be permitted to build a new fairground ride that would need multiple trailers.

There are very very few, triple axle caravans in the UK Most being custom made by a man called Dan sullivan, and they are all less than 2800k despite their size. Though i am not suggesting every one who tows, does it legally, as we have proved in this thread it is a very, very grey area.

but bear in mind many of our laws are fairly new, i believe you could still have a passenger in a caravan until the early 80's? and the law which banned passengers in a trailer also stopped bendy-buses being legal in the UK, yet a decade later and we have them on city streets? none of it makes much snese at all, to me or any of us by the look of it!

 

[Muckypup]

Damn right it dont make sense, but hell if theres a law new, old or for historical/authenticity purposes that can be taken advantage of then im all for it :thumb2

Its a shame farmers cant do the same. How much easier it would be at silage time if we could pull multiple carting trailers lol! :naughty

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

i think its more a case of the pople who have the licence for multiple trailers are all geting pretty old, and when they have gone there will be no more!

in much the same way as pre 97 test gives you automatic B+E and when all those that passed their test pre 97 have gone there will be no more.

 

[SteveN]

Hi guys,

probably because it was late when I posted, I didn't make it very clear, I was refering to showmans vehicles when I said that it was white diesel only.

Regarding multiple trailers, the biggest reason you don't really see them much now on fairground loads is because rides are now more compact with hydraulic fold up,down,in,out parts.even a set of dodgems can be one one fold out artic trailer. The first rule is that the prime mover can only carry generators, yes I know the modern artic ones usually have a small trailer on the back, but the unit doesnt carry a load just a generator behind the cab ! A bit of a grey area there ! Then it goes something like the first trailer must not be more than 33 feet long and the second trailer no more than 30 feet long, totoal length must not exceed 85 feet, thats what it was last time I had a load like that, it may have changed a bit but I don't think so.

Added to this the train weight of the prime mover is still the governing factor,by the time you take the unladen weight of the unit and generators etc, then the unladen weight of the trailers it would be uneconomic in the world of road haulage.No generators but you would need to have some sort of ballast on the prime mover for traction.

Old rides are bulky but not heavy and the space needed to rack everything out to protect paint etc is why there were always loads of trailers.

The truth is that the basic laws for these things dates back to steam traction engine times.

A vehicle registered as a "showmans special " is mot exempt on the grounds that it is untestable, much the same as some recovery vehicles, but ther vehicle has to be in a roadworthy condition as defined by Vosa, a roadside pull could end up with a cherished (not) GV9 or whatever the new name for it is, LG9?

On a lighter note roadtrains can be good fun to drive, golden rule is to make sure you know where you are going, reversing can be a tad awkward !!!!!

cheers
Steve

Member of the Society of Independant Roundabout Proprietors