Gross Weight Question

[Muckypup]

No its on little independant arms with typical small trailer wheels. I'd like to change that if possible to something that could take larger wheels, any ideas?

 

[Thomas-the-Terrano2]

isnt having a plate, or serial number something for trailers post 79 or similar.

i'm sure theres a cut off for over run brakes, bit like when proper glass
windows in caravans was outlawed.

sure its mentioned in trailer law in the caravan club handbook, not that i
can immediately lay my hands on mine.

btw vatco nice to have some real knowledge on the subject on board, reckon
you are now our trailer guru.

you mentioned 3500 as a limit, but feel sure at some point something had
a 4 tonne limit, maybe classic rangey though of course it could have be
standardised along the way. i had one 20 yrs ago and certainly recall it
stating an 8 tonne limit restricted to a very low speed, maybe in low box
in agricultral mode??. hey anyone remember west yorks police using a rrc
may be 2 to get artics moving stuck on m62 in 70's winters. ok more of
a short term recovery move than full blown towing but believe meeting
the requirement kept all the other marques out of WY police purchases
for several years...

also whilst i cant rember which one but likely a dodge ram 1500, with the
correct axle ratio was plated atleast in states to tow more than 3500
though unsure if would be same if imported here. i say a 1500 as it would
gvw under 3500 for b licence, naturally their 2500/3500 3/4 and 1 ton
pickups can tow alot more but their gvw put them like your works wagons
into c1 and likely back to 5th wheels n elecy brakes for good measure.

 

[vatco]

No its on little independant arms with typical small trailer wheels. I'd like to change that if possible to something that could take larger wheels, any ideas?

Hmm indespension yuck! good for camping trailers etc but don't like them for work. Best solution would be a torx or duraflex

Depends on budget and dimensions really

But options are there defo

 

[vatco]

isnt having a plate, or serial number something for trailers post 79 or similar.

Try telling old bill or VOSA that!
It was meant to be but the wording got hashed somewher and the official interpretation takes it as 'ALL' (grrrrr)

i'm sure theres a cut off for over run brakes, bit like when proper glass
windows in caravans was outlawed.

Again see above.. Vintage trailers are suposed to be exempt but official notification from Dept of Transport is to the contrary. However it has to be said that you can get away with it on the side of the road if you are polite enough and sound like you know your stuff. We do often but we do not advise others to try

sure its mentioned in trailer law in the caravan club handbook, not that i
can immediately lay my hands on mine.

Sorry can not trust that organisation on these points anymore. They once tried to say Airstream trailers where ilegal full stop

btw vatco nice to have some real knowledge on the subject on board, reckon
you are now our trailer guru.

Ooooo errr. well better than being an x-spurt I suppose :augie
It is my job and with the sort of work I do then I have to stay up-2-date otherwise I would be well and trully stuffed

you mentioned 3500 as a limit, but feel sure at some point something had
a 4 tonne limit, maybe classic rangey though of course it could have be
standardised along the way. i had one 20 yrs ago and certainly recall it
stating an 8 tonne limit restricted to a very low speed, maybe in low box
in agricultral mode??. hey anyone remember west yorks police using a rrc
may be 2 to get artics moving stuck on m62 in 70's winters. ok more of
a short term recovery move than full blown towing but believe meeting
the requirement kept all the other marques out of WY police purchases
for several years...

also whilst i cant rember which one but likely a dodge ram 1500, with the
correct axle ratio was plated atleast in states to tow more than 3500
though unsure if would be same if imported here. i say a 1500 as it would
gvw under 3500 for b licence, naturally their 2500/3500 3/4 and 1 ton
pickups can tow alot more but their gvw put them like your works wagons
into c1 and likely back to 5th wheels n elecy brakes for good measure.

There are options; There are also loopholes. But in my opinion if you don't know about the special rules then you prob shouldn't be doing it

We recently towed a 34 ft 4 ton trailer caravan with a 4x4 Troll quite legally
and got pulled
and got checked
and got sent on our way with blessings because all paperwork etc was not only in order all notices made and registered but we had all copies on board and to hand.
5 min shortest plod pull with an abnormal I have ever had

Now lets see: for a start we where overlength 7 mtrs is the normal limit; We where overwide as well because the truck is plated at GVW 3500kgs and the trailer was 8ft

Oh and don't forget we where a ton over the plated weight of the tug

So you can do it if you know how

Showmen regularly pull loads in excess of allowable train length, over weight, oversize, multiple trailer pulls, etc

Many vehicles are capable of pulling and stopping far more than the plated restrictions they are given for sale to the general public

Most manu's want to sell there non comertial vehicles to ordinary punters and because of driving licence laws world wide would never dream of restricting a Troll or similar to someone with a HGV licence

 

[Muckypup]

"Many vehicles are capable of pulling and stopping far more than the plated restrictions they are given for sale to the general public

Most manu's want to sell there non comertial vehicles to ordinary punters and because of driving licence laws world wide would never dream of restricting a Troll or similar to someone with a HGV licence "


But does that not contradict what you explained earlier in this thread??? How is it that you were towing a four ton trailer with a vehicle plated at a ton less than that? Didnt you say a Terrano rated at 2800kgs cant tow an empty trailer weighing 1000kgs but plated for 3500kgs?
Or are you saying that you have a Troll, purchased with a higher towing rating because you have a HGV license?
If this is the case I may well be saving up for another catagory adding to my license

 

[vatco]

But does that not contradict what you explained earlier in this thread??? How is it that you were towing a four ton trailer with a vehicle plated at a ton less than that? Didnt you say a Terrano rated at 2800kgs cant tow an empty trailer weighing 1000kgs but plated for 3500kgs?
Or are you saying that you have a Troll, purchased with a higher towing rating because you have a HGV license?
If this is the case I may well be saving up for another catagory adding to my license

No
As I said there are loopholes

Troll in question is registered as a specially adapted vehicle

Over length and overweight covered by official notices

Over wide and over length covered by escort

You don't want to go down this route----getting the vehicle reregistered involves allsorts of inspections, paperwork and hassle

Notices have to be filled in advance, through the right channels and with the right protocol

Escorts are easy; in this case it was a couple of ordinary cars signed up and with lots of flashylight bits

For private use this is not practical but it can be done
We get to do it because we are a specialist company

As I said if you don't know how to do it then you shouldn't even be attempting it. Point is it can be done.

Extra group on your licence is worth it. Even if you don't use it commercially it will give you an incite into driving and controlling a different class of vehicle this in turn will give you a different attitude and a different driving tech for smaller vehicles as well

As for the T its registration, plated weight and your driving class restricts you. If you do not comply you may end up in deep doodoo

Maybe I shouldn’t have posted what is possible but I did so just to indicate that it is but only under special circumstances

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

No its on little independant arms with typical small trailer wheels. I'd like to change that if possible to something that could take larger wheels, any ideas?

I beleive the indespension type hub will take ford or peugeot fitting 4 stud weels straight on, or mini wheels, having said that mini wheels are now like rocking horse p00 and probably worth more than the trailer! but try the others if your can, but bear in mind it won't be able to carry any more weight with bigger wheels as the suspension will be the same.

o' and don't shout if im wrong :doh

 

[Muckypup]

"As for the T its registration, plated weight and your driving class restricts you. If you do not comply you may end up in deep doodoo"

To be fair I wasnt planning on towing four ton with my motor, I was just pointing out how daft all the rules are and how some people can get around laws and others cant. This is the same accross the country in every aspect, some folk manage to get easilly out of landing in court, others dont stand a chance.
I was totally oblivious to the fact you cant tow a 3500kgs plated trailer with a lesser rated truck, thank you for pointing that out. It just means that if I need to tow more than my Maverick is rated for I either borrow my mates Rangie, or beyond 3500kgs its the Case CS150 from now on
I've towed over ten tonnes (i presume legally again lol) with that beast :naughty

PS - I am always wondering why you see certain folk getting away with a road train of several trailers, or a transit pick-up towing a massive triple axle caravan...

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

certain people? people like me? anyway, a transit rruck can legally pull virtualy any caravan on the road, having a train weight of 5000k and obviously when unloaded this gives a huge towing capacity, but lets not get inot LGV towing laws this thread is long enough LOL And fair grund people have showman's licences that allow multiple trailers! It is equaly odd to think we would live in a society that would create laws that would make sections of its citizens daily lives (in and out of working hours) impossible, it would be like making living in a house a criminal offence!

on a lighter note, i go to many livestcok sales and i would argu that 60% of the people there are towing in excess of the capacity of their vehicles, the same goes for many peopel towing mini diggers, road rollers, etc etc. And i have never know anyone get stopped!

there was one landmark case (this is a factual example you may find it on the net) where a delivery driver for a nissan dealership, was stopped for deliveruing a car on atrailer behind a nissan serena, the plod pulled him and he was summoned to court as the trailer put the towing vehicle over the train wieght.

his defence, the treain weight on the vehicle refferd to the van that his 'car' was converted from by Nissan, and so the train weight gross, weight etc did not apply, the case was dissmissed and he won. So work that out?

 

[vatco]

I beleive the indespension type hub will take ford or peugeot fitting 4 stud weels straight on, or mini wheels, having said that mini wheels are now like rocking horse p00 and probably worth more than the trailer! but try the others if your can, but bear in mind it won't be able to carry any more weight with bigger wheels as the suspension will be the same.

o' and don't shout if im wrong :doh

LOL

Correct on the weight issue thats why a different axle would be good

And I can find some mini wheels if needed I had forgotten the stud pat was the same

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

LOL

Correct on the weight issue thats why a different axle would be good

And I can find some mini wheels if needed I had forgotten the stud pat was the same

if you can find some 10 inch mini wheel fin me one, i have a trailer that needs a spare wheel, and i have a spare 12 inch mini wheel, with a tyre that holds air that i dont need,

 

[vatco]

or beyond 3500kgs its the Case CS150 from now on
I've towed over ten tonnes (i presume legally again lol) with that beast :naughty

That'll do it LOL
Agri laws are different again anyway

PS - I am always wondering why you see certain folk getting away with a road train of several trailers, or a transit pick-up towing a massive triple axle caravan...

As Plank just pointed out a showmans licence gives leave for all sorts including running on tax free fuel

on a lighter note, i go to many livestcok sales and i would argu that 60% of the people there are towing in excess of the capacity of their vehicles, the same goes for many peopel towing mini diggers, road rollers, etc etc. And i have never know anyone get stopped!

Too true and again you can get away with it most of the time if you are sensible and look safe and legal.

there was one landmark case (this is a factual example you may find it on the net) where a delivery driver for a nissan dealership, was stopped for deliveruing a car on atrailer behind a nissan serena, the plod pulled him and he was summoned to court as the trailer put the towing vehicle over the train wieght.

his defence, the treain weight on the vehicle refferd to the van that his 'car' was converted from by Nissan, and so the train weight gross, weight etc did not apply, the case was dissmissed and he won. So work that out?

I don't know the case but probably Construction and use - specially adapted vehicle
But there have been many cases like that.

As has been said the law is an ass. It is an even bigger load of BS in many cases because the folk that we entrust our law enforcement to often don't know it, understand it or are able to enforce it.

A lot of folk break the law towing unknowingly and quite safely. Trouble is the law has to be there to protect us from complete idiots like the man I saw a few weeks ago pulling a badly loaded tandem axle 3.5 ton trailer behind a Ford focus.
The trailer was drawbar heavy and having a mind of its own at anything above 35 mph. I passed him out and returning half an hour later I came across him again. Car mashed, trailer on its side in the ditch with the load all over the shop and a number of plod in attendance :lol

 

[zippy656]

So can we see the PICS please

 

[vatco]

if you can find some 10 inch mini wheel fin me one, i have a trailer that needs a spare wheel, and i have a spare 12 inch mini wheel, with a tyre that holds air that i dont need,

Have one odd 10 inch steel you can have if you want it. also have a set of four origonal 'Rosi' style but want $ for them

You can keep the 12 inch though. No good to me someone else may need it

 

[vatco]

So can we see the PICS please

Don't do pics while I'm drivin :lol
And I sure as well wasn't goin ta stop

 

[lacroupade]

I have occasionaly been peed off by these 'private escorts'.....particularly when they are on the motorway escorting a wide load that actually isn't very, and on at least two occasions, although nothing even protruded over the third lane and it was a long dead straight, one of the 'escorts' was driving in the outside lane at a steady 30mph or whatever low speed it was, causing the most horrendous tailback, completely preventing any traffic passing.

Clearly they have a job to do, but thinking they can effectively close the motorway by virtue of having an orange flashing light is not the way to do it.:doh

And yes I did get past by nefarious means, muich to the escorts clear frustration....:augie

I stick them in the same pigeon hole as truck drivers who block both lanes in a merge, people who flash their lights at you because you overtake them and CLOGgers. Or even OLOGgers for that matter LOL!:thumbs

 

[vatco]

I have occasionaly been peed off by these 'private escorts'.....particularly when they are on the motorway escorting a wide load that actually isn't very, and on at least two occasions, although nothing even protruded over the third lane and it was a long dead straight, one of the 'escorts' was driving in the outside lane at a steady 30mph or whatever low speed it was, causing the most horrendous tailback, completely preventing any traffic passing.

Clearly they have a job to do, but thinking they can effectively close the motorway by virtue of having an orange flashing light is not the way to do it.:doh

And yes I did get past by nefarious means, muich to the escorts clear frustration....:augie

I stick them in the same pigeon hole as truck drivers who block both lanes in a merge, people who flash their lights at you because you overtake them and CLOGgers. Or even OLOGgers for that matter LOL!:thumbs

Lol
The government has a job to do as well. And they don't do it very well either
Escort vehicles are often a pain but it isn't because of the laws it is because of the usless jobsworth behind the wheel

If we have an escorted load we use our own drivers. Our drivers are all capable of taking the tow and understand how it is going to behave and what the driver of the tug needs. So they are normally well behaved and we aim to cause as little agro to other drivers as poss. Having said that they are liable to play with you if you are being a bit of a dork and not paying attention

All of our loads will fit within the traffic lane. It is mostly legth that causes us a prob going through tight corners and junctions etc. Sometimes getting a long trailer out of Soton can be fun but we try and time it for best traffic conditions

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

Have one odd 10 inch steel you can have if you want it. also have a set of four origonal 'Rosi' style but want $ for them

You can keep the 12 inch though. No good to me someone else may need it

I could definately use it, its getting it that might be the problem

 

[vatco]

I could definately use it, its getting it that might be the problem

Don't know where you are,,, central England is a big place

So, depending on where you are and how urgent I may be able to help

BTW don't know what the tyre is like I havent looked but even if it looks good i would replace it because it hasn't seen black stuff in a lot of years

You can either PM me where you are or give me a call. All my deets are on my website so I can't hide

 

[SteveN]

Showmen regularly pull loads in excess of allowable train length, over weight, oversize, multiple trailer pulls, etc

Sorry, but this is not true,very few, if any showmans loads exceed allowable length, over weight is covered as is any heavy haulage by STGO and there is nothing wrong with multiple trailer pulls.

As Plank just pointed out a showmans licence gives leave for all sorts including running on tax free fuel

Again totally untrue !! I assume that when you say "a showmans licence" you are taliking about the road tax, if so then the rules regarding getting a vehicle registered as a "showmans special" are very strict and now Vosa require written proof at the side of the road that showmen are actually paid up members of a bona fida organisation with regard to the legality of their vehicle.

As for the tax free fuel, the only time red diesel can be used is in the generators, ALL road going vehicles must have white diesel in use and the penaltys for non compliance are the same for all.

cheers
Steve