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Matt
Guest
Anyone heard anything about councils in North Wales imposing a ban on all laning inside Snowdonia next year?
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jace
Guest
sounds like job for cammera man or andrew k could it because its national park or something like that!
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Guest
Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/7113069.stm
Some discussion on it at present. Some of the best lanes are currently under threat.
Some lanes in Derbyshire are also under threat.
Some discussion on it at present. Some of the best lanes are currently under threat.
Some lanes in Derbyshire are also under threat.
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jace
Guest
why are they so hell bent in shutting peoples fun down!
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Guest
Guest
jace said:
Because they can :!:
Its also popular to be anti 4x4
cameraman said:
Yep - politicians may well believe that the public in general is anti-4x4 and that there are votes in being sympathetic to that view, which in my estimation is far from the truth.
A year or two back the RA sponsored some research using a biased (rigged) questionaire that supposedly supported the notion that 87% (I think) of the public would support a ban on 4x4s in the countryside. The reality is, I think, that 87% of the public haven't a clue what a "Right of Way" is or about the effects that the RA's agenda would have on them.
Courtesy of the 2006 Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act (NERC), National Parks now have the same powers to TRO lanes as a Highway Authority. Unfortunately, National Park members are appointed rather than elected so are impossible to influence - and will often be folks with an ill-conceived environmental agenda.
It ain't going to get better. Ho hum ......
Cheers
Andrew
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Deleted Member
Guest
It's going to end up,that all we can do is pay and play,that's if they don't complain about them as well,just like Need4x4... :?
http://www.need4x4.co.uk/
http://www.need4x4.co.uk/
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I think British people all have this quaint notion of being out in the countryside, the bracing air, the outdoor life, a romantic fantasy!
the truth is its all fenced in by misserable gits shouting 'get off my land' while they rip up the hedge rows and kill the fish stock and wild life with fertiliser, or sit on thier fat backsides claiming erro subsidies for doing absolutely nothing!
I have a friedn who owns a great deal of land in cumbria he lets people camp on a small part as it is very close to the Penine way, once i witnessed a camper, walking her dog in a field of at least 40 acres otherwise unused except for 'subsidies'. he made her pack up and leave and then banned her from returning, all for walking a dog! that is the freedom of the countyside for you!
I think green lanes represent the last real acces to rurla britain there is and ought to be preserved for this reason if nothing else, maybe people dont want to drive on them, and down own a 4x4, well i am too fat to fit in a canoe but i appreciate people have the right to access the water ways!
I do however thnk we have a responsibility to use them with respect and not abuse leave litter churn them up or upset people or animals unneccessarily, so maybe we could just ban Land Rovers :lol: :wink:
the truth is its all fenced in by misserable gits shouting 'get off my land' while they rip up the hedge rows and kill the fish stock and wild life with fertiliser, or sit on thier fat backsides claiming erro subsidies for doing absolutely nothing!
I have a friedn who owns a great deal of land in cumbria he lets people camp on a small part as it is very close to the Penine way, once i witnessed a camper, walking her dog in a field of at least 40 acres otherwise unused except for 'subsidies'. he made her pack up and leave and then banned her from returning, all for walking a dog! that is the freedom of the countyside for you!
I think green lanes represent the last real acces to rurla britain there is and ought to be preserved for this reason if nothing else, maybe people dont want to drive on them, and down own a 4x4, well i am too fat to fit in a canoe but i appreciate people have the right to access the water ways!
I do however thnk we have a responsibility to use them with respect and not abuse leave litter churn them up or upset people or animals unneccessarily, so maybe we could just ban Land Rovers :lol: :wink:
J
jace
Guest
ha ha like it plank maybe get together with fuel guys form pro 4x4 party with cheaper fuel to boot
jace said:
Because a significant minority of people drive routes that don't have vehicular RoW, and their actions can't be justified, but all the general public see is damage & problems. Unfortunately the Ramblers Association tend to promote an image that any 4x4 usage off road is illegal. And with their membership numbers being so large, its a big problem to overcome.
And YDNP has already taken steps under NERC to attempt to close routes, SNP may well follow, especially as there have been some very acrimonious debates about vehicle access.
LDNP on the other hand, while not going out & out to promote laning, recognises it is a sensitive subject, but provides details of legal routes via http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/index/enjoying/outdoors/green_roads.htm
It is worth noting that many famous Lakes routes were lost under the "dual status" issue within NERC, unfortunately.
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jace
Guest
now i see why its important to get out and about and prove the routes being used!
JonathanM said:
Well, funnily enough it usually is - unless it's with the permission of the landowner!! We don't help ourselves by talking about offroading when what we really mean is onroading - but on unsealed roads that have public vehicular rights (BOATS or UCRs/ORPAs).
All the public need to do is look at Section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to see that it is an offence to drive anywhere other than a road (i.e. offroad) or on a road that is a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway without authority.
:smile:
Cheers
Andrew
jace said:
Not just that, but you need to record that you have used it - preferably on Wayfinder (of whichever hue). At least then, if a specific lane comes under threat, details of folks who have used the lane can be retrieved, so that they can be contacted and invited to complete a DCC (or other HA) user evidence form for use in defending the lane.
Cheers
Andrew
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jace
Guest
so why not just get local forum users to log on and say theyve driven the lane on such an such date whether theyve been there or not itd keep it open for people who are serious users! not quite cricket i know but bet they use underhand tactics !
jace said:
Hang on a mo ........ what is needed are folks (who *have* driven lanes) that are prepared to complete a Derbyshire CC (or other authority) User evidence form to say that they have driven a lane and how frequently - and also be prepared to stand up at a public enquiry and confirm that they have. It is that kind of evidence that might persuade an Inspector at a PI that the majority usage of a lane over the last 5 years was vehicular (one of the NERC exceptions) and hence help in maintaining our right to drive it.
At the moment, the 4x4 community is fragmented. GLASS try to act as a focus, but there are many - possibly the majority of 4x4 clubs that are not affiliated to GLASS (including this one). If we want to develop some clout, we need to get together and act together.
Cheers
Andrew
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jace
Guest
yes but id fill form in saying whatever and tell whoever asked id been there do it on daily basis lol!
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I agree with the collective action point of view, people do need to get together and stand up for things they have a passion for,
with fuel prices, road tax rises (both the runours and reality)
the media whipping up 4x4 hatred etc etc
the political machine is at us from all sides and if we cant get together and hold them off (even for just a bit longer) then they will almost certainly win
with fuel prices, road tax rises (both the runours and reality)
the media whipping up 4x4 hatred etc etc
the political machine is at us from all sides and if we cant get together and hold them off (even for just a bit longer) then they will almost certainly win
J
jace
Guest
that dr stood for his hospital closure programme isue he got in if someone stood for 4x4 rights and fuel prices reckon theyd get fair bitove support then they could raise questions on fuel tax and green lanes etc
andrewk said:
:roll:
Andrew, certain pedantic approach to your response, I personally don't refer to green laning as off roading, I was referring to the common public misunderstanding that anything not tarmaced is "off road" driving, and that the RA see the use of unsurfaced RoW as an activity that should be banned.
JonathanM said:
Pedantic, yes maybe :smile:
The RA use that confusion about the meaning of the term "offroad" in the minds of politicians (as distinct from the the public in general who don't give a rats, so far as I can tell) to imply (without saying it) that driving on unsurfaced roads is illegal.
Cheers
Andrew
