Fitting an Intercooler to a 96 2.7TD

[extreme-4x4]

I think extreme meant does a turbo charger push as much air as it is being pushed by - but of course it doesn't its a machine all machines are ineffecient, a petrol engine is about 30% efficient and a diesel is only about 40%.

I don't have any figures but turbo's will be horrendously inefficent with regard to the ammount of boost they can provide against the force used to spin them, if you imagine the increased volume/speed/pressure/energy of the exhaust gas versus the relatively low energy even on full boost in the intake its a no brainer really.

If you used one turbo to provide pressure to spin another turbo up to produce boost, I doubt you'd get any appreciable boost at the intake.

BTW before anyone says it, this is not how a twin turbo set up works. A twin turbo set up separates the engine into 2 "banks" of cylinders each with its own dedicated turbo driven from and feeding only that bank of cylinders.

usually on v type engines...

but yes that was what i was trying to say about the extra turbo, spot on .

thing is when doing the extreme air you really do apreciate how much air that turbo pushes in... i did have a go into the cab and not outside... and f it sucks like nothing ive put my hand near before . believe me

 

[Terranosaurus]

usually on v type engines...

but yes that was what i was trying to say about the extra turbo, spot on .

thing is when doing the extreme air you really do apreciate how much air that turbo pushes in... i did have a go into the cab and not outside... and f it sucks like nothing ive put my hand near before . believe me

I belive you - but it don't suck anywere near as hard as the exhaust blows.

 

[extreme-4x4]

ok . but does the turbo take the full force of exhaust outlet or part of. now like a jet engine it compresses air albeit hotter. but the second one could compress cold air . now cold air is denser air so your compressing cold/ dense air straight in

id love to know the figures of energy into versus out of a turbo

 

[Terranosaurus]

ok . but does the turbo take the full force of exhaust outlet or part of. now like a jet engine it compresses air albeit hotter. but the second one could compress cold air . now cold air is denser air so your compressing cold/ dense air straight in

id love to know the figures of energy into versus out of a turbo

Yes it takes the full flow of the exhaust right up until the point where a preset maximum boost is reached which then opens the wastegate and bleeds off some of the exhaust around the turbine to maintain that set maximum boos level.

Turbo's are pretty inefficient that why we get turbo lag, until you reach say 2000rpm there is insufficient exhauts flow to spol the turbo and thus produce any meaningful boost.

I know what you're suggesting but it just wouldn't work due to the inefficencies in the system, even you're second turbo would start to get hot in its own right from ambient temperature, hot lubricting oil, friction etc so the cold effect would be less than hoped.

In all honesty don't you think racing/rallying teams and manufacturers etc haven't tried or at least thought through things like this? and do you know what they fit front mounted intercoolers. Scoobies come with top mounts and group N cars retain them but outside the restrictive rules of Gp N they fit front mounts, same with nissan skylines, people fit front mounts, cossies had em as std, so do EVOs etc etc

 

[extreme-4x4]

yeah i know they do... but they are all fast petrol cars. and when they are going flat out they are near melting point

diesels runs colder terrano's especially . i just wonder why on 4x4's they are generally on top.

unless its to avoid damage . that would be my biggest fear i guess

you'd want to fit above the bumper at least

 

[Terranosaurus]

yeah i know they do... but they are all fast petrol cars. and when they are going flat out they are near melting point

diesels runs colder terrano's especially . i just wonder why on 4x4's they are generally on top.

Landrover fit em up front as previously mentioned - now if thats not a slow 4x4 for you.


IIRC diesels run higher cylinder temperatures than petrols - your terrano does seem faulty why do you say it runs cold?

 

[extreme-4x4]

compared to a petrol race / rally type car id say it runs colder evo's , scooby's zx and alike
turbo's were mainstream in faster petrols until recently (10 years )
when they started using them more in small cars and diesels for fuel ecconomy...

but ive always found diesels to run colder

i guess i need to think more modern (stuck in a time warp)



ok the 300zx is not a good example as you find it hard to find one thats not everheating... lovely cars hair raising drive... but really stupid nissan for the little hoses that leak behind the engine


so how much more bhp would you like to gain from front mount then.with lets say twice the size of intercooler . i recon you'd easilly double the size

 

[Jocky]

Here is a simplistic view.

You can only force so much air into the cylinders. If you try and force in more it will go bang. As already said thats why you've got a wastegate, so boost doesn't get to high. If it wasn't there the engine would go bang as it would take the engines compression ratio above design.

Getting back to your temp thing. Diesel engines comp ration is usually twice what a petrol engine is Eg 20 to 1 to a petrols 10 to 1 so the temp in a diesel in my book must be higher. It needs to be or it won't burn.

The intercooler will only drop ther air temp so much below ambient, so fitting a massive interchanger won't make that much difference, the air will only get so dense.

If you can get the TDI bits to fit a TD and its cheaper than buying a front mounted kit, go for it.

:thumb2

 

[Terranosaurus]

This is getting boring - my last word on the subject


P1 x V1 = P2 x V2
_______GG______
GGT1GGGGGT1


Power is roughly (though not directly) proportional to the mass of air (oxygen really) passing through the engine - thus denser (whether from higher pressure or cooler) air means more power

 

[Jocky]

This is getting boring - my last word on the subject


P1 x V1 = P2 x V2
_______GG______
GGT1GGGGGT1


Power is roughly (though not directly) proportional to the mass of air (oxygen really) passing through the engine - thus denser (whether from higher pressure or cooler) air means more power

Yes the good old Combined Ideal Gas Law. Mr Boyle and Mr Charles have a lot to answer for:bow

Agreed its getting boring:doh

If you can get 25bhp extra enjoy it:thumb2

:lol

 

[Deleted Member S]

IIRC diesels run higher cylinder temperatures than petrols

Your spot on there m8:thumb2 Diesels depend solely on the heat generated from the air inside the cylinder being compressed to ingnite the diesel where a petrol engine has spark plugs to ingnite the petrol/air mix

 

[Spook]

i know this is an old thread, and having just read it a long one....but my simple question is can i fit a TDI intercooler to my TD easily :nenau(accepted the bonnet will need a hole cutting and scoop and painting) but can it be done without too much hassle, or should i just forget the xtra bhp and live a simpler life dreaming of a t2??:lol

Spook

 

[makeitfit]

Of course you can
Jimmy had an intercooler and pipes etc for 50 of his english pounds I think:augie
Bonnet will be the biggest hassle I think
Worth a look carefully in the scrap yard to see if the scoop type bonnet can be fitted with the newer grill and lights. I reckon they will as it's all bolt on stuff:augie
POWER :naughty

 

[extreme-4x4]

Of course you can
Jimmy had an intercooler and pipes etc for 50 of his english pounds I think:augie
Bonnet will be the biggest hassle I think
Worth a look carefully in the scrap yard to see if the scoop type bonnet can be fitted with the newer grill and lights. I reckon they will as it's all bolt on stuff:augie
POWER :naughty

bonnet wont fit it has a diferent curve on the front
you will have to cut your bonnet for a scoop
my roof scoop was a baking trey from wilkinson £3 i think
get the thick one thin wont work

 

[makeitfit]

Have you checked the slam panel extreme?
I think it's the same, just the bonnet got modded and the grill and lights. The actual body is the same:augie
Having said that I'll have a spy myself tomorrow

 

[extreme-4x4]

well yes it is the same body and slam pannel, but the front curve of the tdi is going to stick out past the grill on a td
so you would have to change the grill too then. and then the lights and so on

i looked at the shogun intercooler it looked very promising plus it has a fan already so you could do that and have a scoop in a cooler looking place

extreme intercooling (tm):bow:bow:bow

 

[Spook]

Got Jimmy's intercooler, he's looking for the pipes for me aswell.

i'm going to have a look at friend who has a t2 and work out how to srew the thing to engine. Bonnet going to be issue, thought about getting bonnet and lights from a scrapper, but looks like there are several different bumpers all with different profiles around the grill.

Like the idea of a Wilki's tray,

 

[makeitfit]

Ah what you need is one of my winch bumpers
Then you'll be able to do the facelift proper tidy like

 

[makeitfit]

well yes it is the same body and slam pannel, but the front curve of the tdi is going to stick out past the grill on a td
so you would have to change the grill too then. and then the lights and so on

i looked at the shogun intercooler it looked very promising plus it has a fan already so you could do that and have a scoop in a cooler looking place

extreme intercooling (tm):bow:bow:bow

Funny you mentioned Shogun! I found myself up the scrapyard again today while waiting for her car to be ready:doh
"Found" a rather nice roof spoiler
Got that shaped to fit tonight it's even got a nice hole for the aerial:thumbs

 

[extreme-4x4]

thats not fair you know i got mine last weekend.....