Fitting an Intercooler to a 96 2.7TD

[Deleted Member S]

Just had a look on ebay under the heading of intercooler & there are loads of them some as low as £20 off spriter vans & quiet a few at the £50 mark. TBH if you keep looking I think it could work out costing under £200 if you shop carefully, plus there is also your local breakers yards

 

[extreme-4x4]

if you upping the colder air on a tdi why not just put a slightly bigger scoop on the bonnet. that would make it colder...

but then my tdi has not suddenly sprouted wings now its -12 at night .
so if the air outside is -12 its got to be getting colder than -12 with the wind factor (driving at speed)


ok its a bit better now its winter but. now its very cold outside its no better than normal winter running

is there an optimum coldness you should be aiming at before it gets to cold to make any difference.


oh and the roof scoop still works fine seems better in dusty conditions, no mpg improvement . no water in yet , no faster just a little smoother

 

[zippy656]

That was an installation by Alisport IIRC.

You can pick up the gear to do al that for not much over £300 if you shop around.

Mines got a top mounted intercooler but I still plan on fitting a front mounted one eventually

have you thought about fitting a fan on the top. so its aways getting cool are over it>

some one heres got one, cant remember who though



zippy

 

[Bibio]

if you upping the colder air on a tdi why not just put a slightly bigger scoop on the bonnet. that would make it colder...

but then my tdi has not suddenly sprouted wings now its -12 at night .
so if the air outside is -12 its got to be getting colder than -12 with the wind factor (driving at speed)


ok its a bit better now its winter but. now its very cold outside its no better than normal winter running

is there an optimum coldness you should be aiming at before it gets to cold to make any difference.


oh and the roof scoop still works fine seems better in dusty conditions, no mpg improvement . no water in yet , no faster just a little smoother

My TD is pulling better coming home from work 3am and -5 defo need an intercooler

John

 

[extreme-4x4]

yes they run better in the winter that's true, but not massive improvement (not like its got wings now)

yes a third party intercooler could be be bigger and so cool better

but we already know a standard intercooler could give you 25bhp more
but its not like we are getting massive extra bhp with the winter temps at say -5 compared to +30 in the summer i dont see a bigger intercooler giving 35 degrees more cooling cos it only has the outside temp to cool it

example : in the summer at +30 a big intercooler will not cool it to -5 and even if it could would it be worth the expense cos like i said its not like its a massive imprvement with 35 degrees extra cooling in the winter

on a hot petrol engine i can see front mounted.

but on a diesel i cant see the point of all the extra expense to front mount
as you will loose pressure with 6 metres of hose and and joints its going to heat back up slightly running over the engine again and friction with that long run

im still looking at ideas though. but id say a standard intercooler is better than no intercooler and the benefits of a front mount over a top mount are very minimum...

what would be better would be a twin fan that runs of the air feed to suck in new cold air at the same preasure as it throws out
for example swapping old hot turbo air for new cold air but equal exchange.
maybe a second turbo fan in line

then your not trying to cool something that is already extremely hot

 

[Terranosaurus]

have you thought about fitting a fan on the top. so its aways getting cool are over it>

some one heres got one, cant remember who though

Thought about it but discounted the idea, I'm sure they work at low speed (but who needs power at low speed) but am convinced they must have a detrimental effect at high speed even over standard but especially over the higher effiecency of a front mounted cooler.

 

[Jocky]

Not forgetting you need to increase fueling after fitting intercooler:naughty more air less fuel not good:doh

 

[Terranosaurus]

Not forgetting you need to increase fueling after fitting intercooler:naughty more air less fuel not good:doh

Thats the beauty of the MAF sensor and managed fuelling it does it for you up to a point. YOu can get away with it anyway on a diesel, they run lean 90+% of the time anyway, you're just not making the most of the intercooler if you don't increase the fuelling on a TD.

 

[tezzer]

might be better to check with your insurers first to see if they will still cover you
if you do carry out the modification, you know what them greedy bleeders are like, :nenau










tezzer

 

[extreme-4x4]

ok well i spent most of the day thinking on this one,
and i recon front mount you could fit 26" x 12" intercooler . standard is 14"x 14"

so your almost double the cooling area. but do you think if double the cooling area will make it twice as cold ...probably not as your restricted by the outside temp... ok you will get extra cooling and a bit extra with the chill factor of moving through the air as you drive


as we know they run a little better in the winter but nothing to write home about and not enough for most people to go spending 3-400 on parts assuming a bigger front mounted intercooler would make the winter-summer differance.

thats the bit i cant see. but obviously if it did give you wings id do it


your 3-400 youd get an hour on a rolling road and a tweek to the ucu and your insurance wont see a dirty great intercooler strapped to the front either.

 

[Terranosaurus]

Once again in english this time please extreme - what are you saying/asking I really can't tell.



Plenty of people fit bigger intercoolers to the already front mounted intercoolers on Landrovers cos it does make an appreciable difference.

Have you ever put your finger over the end of a bycycle pump and pumped it a few times, or felt the compressor to cylinder pipe on a garage compressor? Hot aren't they. That's what a turbocharger does to the air, only its hot itself too because its exhaust driven so it heats the air even more.

Theres a 25bhp (IIRC) differnce between the TD and TDi engine almost all of which has to be down to the cooling as theres not a lot else different. Thats with a relatively small poorly placed cooler - I'm sure theres more to be had with a more efficient one.

 

[zippy656]

if you get it chiped you get up to 150bhp im told..

 

[extreme-4x4]

ok i thought i had . but here goes

im here throwing ideas into the melting pot. if no one has ideas nothing new ever happens or gets improved thats all. i dont doubt anyone's views or opinoins as im no specialist

the original question was
how to fit a intercooler to a td ... A. fit a tdi one its proven to work and its a cheep way to fit one as parts are redily available

it is suggested you can fit a big one to the front ... but what evidance is there its going to be better on a diesel. and if it is. is the extra bhp worth the big expense.

so what other options are there to get over the problem of the turbo heating up the inlet air...
now a turbo uses exhaust gas to turn a fan , this is conected to a second fan that pushes lots of clean air into the combustion. but this prosses heats up the new air so its quite hot and not as dense. however its not as hot as exhaust gas. so its not converting all the heat from exhaust heat into the new air

so what if...


if you put in a second turbo fan in the same line and use the clean air intake with air warmed up by the turbo this will turn the 2nd turbo fan to suck in newer clean air and almost all of the heat will be eliminated

so the air you would put into an intercooler put it into another turbo type device this will power the new air intake with next to no heat transfer from the exhaust

just my thaught and ideas.

what do you think ?

you could even put it through a front intercooler too

 

[Terranosaurus]

If that were going to work perpetual motion machines would be viable too. The very act of ccompressing the it heats up the air as well as the conduction from the exhaust etc.

 

[extreme-4x4]

well im no expert and i doubt we will find an expert on here.

but how much heat transfer comes from the conduction from exhaust heat . compared to the heat caused by compression of the air which is the greater?
to eliminate one would benefit im sure

does a turbo produce the same output as it uses for or how much is lost ?

im guessing they are suited to the needs.

im sure some air conditioning or turbo expert could advise

 

[Bibio]

25 bhp extra would do me after fitting an intercooler, as I cant get mine chipped,

Im looking for more power to pull the caravan ,the hills going up to Scourie (sutherland) on holiday are like Everest.

The guys going on the run to Orkney are in for a bit of climbing !.

John

 

[Deleted Member S]

does a turbo produce the same output as it uses for or how much is lost ?

Of cause the turbo puts out the same output as an intercooler is'nt going to alter how it is set up As you have mentioned Extreme that your motor feels a bit quicker due to the weather being cold at the min compaired to in the summer well thats because the air is more dence at the min so fitting a larger cooler could give you the same extra power in the summer

 

[extreme-4x4]

Of cause the turbo puts out the same output as an intercooler is'nt going to alter how it is set up As you have mentioned Extreme that your motor feels a bit quicker due to the weather being cold at the min compaired to in the summer well thats because the air is more dence at the min so fitting a larger cooler could give you the same extra power in the summer

yeah i worked that out... but its not massive is it, hardly worth the trouble or expense

the jump from td to tdi with intercooler now that would be worth the money and time

so how do you get that sort of extra performance by messing with the intercooler

 

[Terranosaurus]

Of cause the turbo puts out the same output as an intercooler is'nt going to alter how it is set up As you have mentioned Extreme that your motor feels a bit quicker due to the weather being cold at the min compaired to in the summer well thats because the air is more dence at the min so fitting a larger cooler could give you the same extra power in the summer

I think extreme meant does a turbo charger push as much air as it is being pushed by - but of course it doesn't its a machine all machines are ineffecient, a petrol engine is about 30% efficient and a diesel is only about 40%.

I don't have any figures but turbo's will be horrendously inefficent with regard to the ammount of boost they can provide against the force used to spin them, if you imagine the increased volume/speed/pressure/energy of the exhaust gas versus the relatively low energy even on full boost in the intake its a no brainer really.

If you used one turbo to provide pressure to spin another turbo up to produce boost, I doubt you'd get any appreciable boost at the intake.

BTW before anyone says it, this is not how a twin turbo set up works. A twin turbo set up separates the engine into 2 "banks" of cylinders each with its own dedicated turbo driven from and feeding only that bank of cylinders.

 

[Deleted Member S]

so how do you get that sort of extra performance by messing with the intercooler

The more air you can sqeeze into an engine the more fuel you can add so you get a larger & more powerfull burn so more power output. Fitting a larger cooler means you lower the inlet air temps down more than standard thus alowing more air into the cylinders as the colder air take up less room:augie
Have you ever fitted twin carbs to a motor ? thses will give you more air/fuel per cylinder which = more power output.