Correct timing advance on 2005 Terrano 2 2.7TDI?

[-=Alex=-]

This is used pump.

I checked needle sensor for resistance only, and continuity on timing advance valve.

Another update.Just physically moved pump away from engine as far as possible.
All fault codes have gone, Engine Check is gone, just white smoke, rough running and unstable revs while cold left.
What can it be? Will try to move pump back slowly...

 

[makeitfit]

White smoke = air ingress I thought or No1 injector ? Sorry lost track a bit, have you checked fuel filter seal ?

 

[geoffdown]

Checked needle sensor and timing advance valve resistance and continuity.
Everything ok, as per manual.
Engine runs ok except white smoke, high vibration and P1246 fault.
The only thing I can do now is forget about pump adjustment and move it manually.

you've checked resistance on no. injector which u say is fine but the sensor works by a small rod that moves when the pressure drops then back up when the pressure builds this is how it senses when no.1 cylinder has fired but when running shitty fuel which u say ur nozzle's were fooked then the sensor might well be ****ed to i.e sticking as like I said before the sensor is in the flow of fuel be it diesel or dirty wvo just something to be a ware of that's all might not be the problem but when the engine is not timed correctly wont that cause whitish smoke

 

[-=Alex=-]

I have custom filter and clear fuel lines, there is no air in lines.
All injectors were cleaned and adjuster on Friday by Bosch Diesel Centre.

Another update.
Engine is hot now and keeps revs ok. Pump was moved to the middle position. Vibration higher than standard, but better than earlier today.
Still white smoke, even with air filter off. So it's not insufficient air.
Engine revs to 3000 easily.
Knocks at about 1000 rpm and 1500-1800, on other revs no knocks.

 

[Sweety]

The white smoke is common when getting air into the fuel system so i'd double check all of the fuel lines etc & for the time being whilst trying to get it to run right I would dump the WVO & just use pure diesel for the time being as you can always go back to using WVO or WVO/diesel mix once it's running 100%.
I don't know much about running veg oil but I would think it'll be starting to thicken up due to the colder temps we're getting now & wonder if this isn't helping matters (someone please correct me if i'm wrong:doh)

 

[makeitfit]

Veg oil will be a little more gloopy as temp drops. However that usually only effects start up time . Once up to temp the fuel in the tank gets warmed too from the pump's return line. Fuel temp/viscosity wouldn't explain rough running at specific revs :augie I don't think. So I'd check fault codes again if you're sure there's no air ingress and suspect No1 injector or Crank sensor maybe.
Personally I still reckon undried WVO won't be helping any. Cleaned and filtered and "washed" wvo fair enough but nagging thought I have is this free fuel is costing you fuel pumpS , injectors and so on :nenau
As I said before I've run neat SVO and bio for years and had none of these problems ( so far and grabbing a large bit of wood :lol )

 

[Sweety]

Veg oil will be a little more gloopy as temp drops. However that usually only effects start up time . Once up to temp the fuel in the tank gets warmed too from the pump's return line.

Cheers for the info makeitfit:thumbs

 

[-=Alex=-]

During tests car was running on approx 50/50 WVO/Derv. Plus, I have coolant heated heat exchanger, which heats up fuel to about 90 degrees. Fuel definitely was easy to flow.

Another update.
Following mechanic's advice (and suspicion), adjusted intake valves (should be done after 60K miles, mine has 51K). They should be 0.25mm, approx. half of them were 0.3-0.4mm, another half less than 0.2. Adjustment made no difference to smoke or vibration.

Disconnected air line between MAF and Turbo. Turbo is in great condition, spins easily.
No difference to smoke.

Noticed that knocks are less noticeable if acceleration is slow. If I press accelerator pedal fast, knocks are really hard. It makes me think that issue is still with timing.

Mechanic suggested that the problem may lay with flywheel - if it has moved, then crankshaft sensor gets signal in wrong time. Although he said he has seen this issue only once 10 years ago... Can't imagine how flywheel may move...

 

[geoffdown]

During tests car was running on approx 50/50 WVO/Derv. Plus, I have coolant heated heat exchanger, which heats up fuel to about 90 degrees. Fuel definitely was easy to flow.

Another update.
Following mechanic's advice (and suspicion), adjusted intake valves (should be done after 60K miles, mine has 51K). They should be 0.25mm, approx. half of them were 0.3-0.4mm, another half less than 0.2. Adjustment made no difference to smoke or vibration.

Disconnected air line between MAF and Turbo. Turbo is in great condition, spins easily.
No difference to smoke.

Noticed that knocks are less noticeable if acceleration is slow. If I press accelerator pedal fast, knocks are really hard. It makes me think that issue is still with timing.

Mechanic suggested that the problem may lay with flywheel - if it has moved, then crankshaft sensor gets signal in wrong time. Although he said he has seen this issue only once 10 years ago... Can't imagine how flywheel may move...

Cant be flywheel but can still be injector no.1 sensor sticking as its a moving sensor the resistance would be ok just a thought as ur nozzles were fooked

 

[Sweety]

Mechanic suggested that the problem may lay with flywheel - if it has moved, then crankshaft sensor gets signal in wrong time. Although he said he has seen this issue only once 10 years ago... Can't imagine how flywheel may move...

TBH can't see that happening as it's bolted onto the end of the crank shaft:augie I might be poss with one of the modern motors with a DMF but the T2 is very old tech

 

[-=Alex=-]

Cant be flywheel but can still be injector no.1 sensor sticking as its a moving sensor the resistance would be ok just a thought as ur nozzles were fooked

What this sensor senses? Needle movement? They were stripped and cleaned all last week.

Another suggestion I got:
"I wonder if there's some crud got into one or more injector, maybe from a bent injector-line or reassembly....
Did you flex or bend any HP lines to remove the injectors...?
If so, (Its happened to me) then the scale deposits that build up on the inner surface can scale-off and pass the the injectors and partially block/sieze them....."

But these knocks were happening before I touched HP lines!

 

[geoffdown]

What this sensor senses? Needle movement? They were stripped and cleaned all last week.

Another suggestion I got:
"I wonder if there's some crud got into one or more injector, maybe from a bent injector-line or reassembly....
Did you flex or bend any HP lines to remove the injectors...?
If so, (Its happened to me) then the scale deposits that build up on the inner surface can scale-off and pass the the injectors and partially block/sieze them....."

But these knocks were happening before I touched HP lines!

the nozzles were cleaned but what did they say bout the sensor

 

[-=Alex=-]

I just spoke to them, they said it was also checked. And resistance I have (96 Ohm at 7 Celsius) is close to correct - 105 Ohm at 25 Celsius.
Now trying to negotiate with CNCfab to get his control injector to fit to my car and see what happens...

 

[geoffdown]

I just spoke to them, they said it was also checked. And resistance I have (96 Ohm at 7 Celsius) is close to correct - 105 Ohm at 25 Celsius.
Now trying to negotiate with CNCfab to get his control injector to fit to my car and see what happens...

Again u say checked for resistance but u dont mention if the checked if the sensor is sensing as I have said before the sensor I belive has moving parts so did they check the sensor when doing the pressure brake test:nenau as it may well be showing correct resistance but not actually working

 

[-=Alex=-]

Again u say checked for resistance but u dont mention if the checked if the sensor is sensing as I have said before the sensor I belive has moving parts so did they check the sensor when doing the pressure brake test:nenau as it may well be showing correct resistance but not actually working

Hmm...
In the picture below you can see pick-up coil at the top of the injector, and as far as I understand there is a rod which is being moved by the needle.
If this road breaks, then coil is OK, but it sends no signal as rod is not moving. Is it possible that Diesel centre guys could have missed broke rod during maintenance? I doubt..

Another thing...
Maybe there is no electrical connection between injector or crankshaft sensor and ECU?
Because 3-4 weeks ago one morning I got:
1. Airbag fault - no circuit
2. No horn
3. No volume control on steering wheel.
I haven't fixed it yet, but it looks to me as broken wiring. Maybe the same could happen to engine control wires?

 

[makeitfit]

When my No1 injector went south I was told it was non serviceable :nenau
The injector/nozzle bit can be but not the electro pizzo gubbins :augie
So a quick control swap would answer a lot.
I'mpretty sure though that if crank sensor is on the blink the ecu defaults to safe mode, but does not make diesel knock ?

 

[solarman216]

maybe depends if it is Bosch or Zexell, Bosch should read 100 ohms so suggests a coil, Zexell no reading so might suggest pizzo stuff, Rick

 

[-=Alex=-]

It is Bosch then, it reads 95 ohms.

Below is what was checked or done over last weeks. All checks on proper derv:

1. As per Workshop manual - voltage to timing advance valve - present.
2 . Crankshaft sensor - resistance 850 ohms at 7 degrees , should be 900 at 25 degrees
3 . Needle sensor in the injector 1 - resistance 95 ohms at 7 degrees , should be 105 at 25 degrees .
4 . Timing advance valve in the pump - resistance around 14.5 ohms at 7 degrees , should be 15 at 25 degrees .
5 . The gaps in the valves - were from < 0.20 to 0.30-0.40 , now all set to on 0.25.
6. Pump Timing advance set with dial gauge tool - initially set at 0.36mm as per manual, but result wasn’t good. Then moved the pump back and forth, no effect. 7. For some time had P1246 fault code after pump replacement, but then it gone (likely because the pump was moved ) . Now there are no faults at all.
8. Disconnected MAF - no effect
9. Started up without an air filter - no effect .
10 . The turbine is clean, runs good.
11. Compression is good. 1 cylinder - 35.5 bar, 2 - 34 3 - 33 4 - 31. Per manual should be 29.6 , the critical minimum - 24.4 .
11. All injectors were sent to Diesel Centre, cleaned and adjusted to open at 130bar .
12. Fuel system has 2 filters, plus 2 small filters in the timing valve and inlet to the pump were cleaned . I did not check filter in return line because original pump did not have it.. The pump number 0460404974.

 

[makeitfit]

Might be worth checking the MAF also as if there's no difference when it's unplugged, that suggests it's goosed :nenau

 

[solarman216]

as makeitfit says unplugging the maf should make it run like a bag of bones, if it makes no difference then either the wiring is bad or the maf has gone, Rick