Correct timing advance on 2005 Terrano 2 2.7TDI?

[solarman216]

I had aap chance to visit diesel centre workshop yesterday, they showed me everything - machines, testing etc. When they stripped injectors, there was visible dust inside, on washers. Needle was also very stiff, they had to use vice to get it out of the nozzle


Alex[/

Then that injector is scrap, there are workshops and workshops, if that element was reused it will fail in a short time, an idea of the tolerances of an older injector as found on a T2, if you remove the needle and hold it in your hand and place the body on a cold surface for few mins, then try and re insert it, on a good element it will not go until the temperatures equalise, Rick

 

[Kishada]

What timing tool set are you looking at or have you already bought one?

Saw Laser 1870 and Sealey VSE2242 and wondered if they definitely fit?

 

[geoffdown]

In this case, does it man that all I need to do is to install pump in the middle of studs and adjust the rest electronically?

no as each pump r diff the casings r not cast the 0.79 thou so should be set right don't get me wrong it will run but either with a lot of diesel knock or lack of power or both

 

[-=Alex=-]

I had aap chance to visit diesel centre workshop yesterday, they showed me everything - machines, testing etc. When they stripped injectors, there was visible dust inside, on washers. Needle was also very stiff, they had to use vice to get it out of the nozzle


Alex[/

Then that injector is scrap, there are workshops and workshops, if that element was reused it will fail in a short time, an idea of the tolerances of an older injector as found on a T2, if you remove the needle and hold it in your hand and place the body on a cold surface for few mins, then try and re insert it, on a good element it will not go until the temperatures equalise, Rick

Wow, what a tolerance!

 

[solarman216]

Wow, what a tolerance!

that is for old style injectors running at around 2000 lb sq inch, modern common rail ones run at 20 to 25 thousand lb so shudder to think of their tolerance, that is why they have to have pure clean derv, Rick

 

[-=Alex=-]

Todays update:

1. Had my injectors cleaned and serviced (not refurbished), £190 for set of 4... They look very good and spray good, but my purse is still crying...
Injectors were adjusted to open at 130 bar.

2. Diesel specialists suggested that manual pump adjustment does make a difference, don't rely just on electronic timing advance only.

3. Checked cylinders pressure (counting from radiator side):
1st - 35.5 bar
2nd - 34 bar
3rd - 33 bar
4th - 31 bar
Standard pressure according to manual 29.42 bar, minimum 24.52.
Is here anything to worry about?

4. Checked wastegate with engine off - can't move it even with pliers. I'm not sure if it should move with turbo off, but mine definitely doesn't. Please advice.

 

[solarman216]

Todays update:

1. Had my injectors cleaned and serviced (not refurbished), £190 for set of 4... They look very good and spray good, but my purse is still crying...
Injectors were adjusted to open at 130 bar.

2. Diesel specialists suggested that manual pump adjustment does make a difference, don't rely just on electronic timing advance only.

3. Checked cylinders pressure (counting from radiator side):
1st - 35.5 bar
2nd - 34 bar
3rd - 33 bar
4th - 31 bar
Standard pressure according to manual 29.42 bar, minimum 24.52.
Is here anything to worry about?

4. Checked wastegate with engine off - can't move it even with pliers. I'm not sure if it should move with turbo off, but mine definitely doesn't. Please advice.

the ECU will look at the CPS to determine injection point as long as the pump is within tolerance if the pump is advanced to far then the CPU will simply retard it to within spec, so nothing to be gained by moving pump.

as for the pressures their gauge is foofed,

waste gate forget it, it is there to stop over pressure when running full bore, it hardly ever comes into service, Rick

 

[geoffdown]

the ECU will look at the CPS to determine injection point as long as the pump is within tolerance if the pump is advanced to far then the CPU will simply retard it to within spec, so nothing to be gained by moving pump.

as for the pressures their gauge is foofed,

waste gate forget it, it is there to stop over pressure when running full bore, it hardly ever comes into service, Rick

Read my previous post the ecu can only advance and retard to a certain tolerance so pump needs to be set as near as timed as poss completely diff to common rail pumps which do not need to be timed

 

[-=Alex=-]

Thank you guys.

Is cylinder pressure ok,not too high?
Should wastegate open easily by hand? I would assume so.

 

[geoffdown]

Thank you guys.

Is cylinder pressure ok,not too high?
Should wastegate open easily by hand? I would assume so.

Mine moves when I use a short handle screwdriver hope that helps

 

[Kishada]

Bump

What timing tool set are you looking at or have you already bought one?

Saw Laser 1870 and Sealey VSE2242 and wondered if they definitely fit?

P.S. Grab yourself a Mityvac to test the wastegate actuation on the turbo.
Never seen the penny actuation arm seize on a Garret T series and I've rebuilt a few.
They normally go the other way and develop slight wear in the bore causing a tiny leak of exhaust gases.
They're only really prone for cracking on the exhaust housing where the penny seats inside, thus causing a slight leak past the wastegate penny when actually shut.
If you remove the tiny circlip from the wastegate actuation arm (it might crumble to pieces with corrosion!) then you should be able to move that actuation arm with minimal force, just a single finger.

 

[Kishada]

Ran out of time to edit.
Last sentence should read:

If you remove the tiny circlip from the wastegate actuation arm (it might crumble to pieces with corrosion!), then lift the wastegate actuator rod off the exhaust housing wastegate flap (penny) actuator arm then you should be able to move that exhaust housing actuation arm with minimal force, just a single finger.

 

[-=Alex=-]

Just came back home, was assembling everything back.
Timing advance was 0,29mm on timing tool gauge, manual recommends 0.36 +- 0.02, so I adjusted that by rotation the pump.

Started engine.
Engine starts OK, but makes lots of white smoke, a bit of banging noise, unstable running, Engine Check light and P1246 fault code.

P1246 is F/INJ TIMG F/B:
Injection timing feedback system does not operate properly. (This system consists essentially of ECM, injection timing control valve and needle lift sensor.)

Check Items:
Harness or connectors (Injection timing control valve, needle lift sensor,crankshaft position sensor (TDC) circuits)
Injection timing control valve
Needle lift sensor
Crankshaft position sensor (TDC)
Air in fuel line

Any ideas? This is new pump to me, maybe adjust timing manually by simply moving IP and listening to the sound engine makes, without any tools?
Help, please!

 

[solarman216]

Just came back home, was assembling everything back.
Timing advance was 0,29mm on timing tool gauge, manual recommends 0.36 +- 0.02, so I adjusted that by rotation the pump.

Started engine.
Engine starts OK, but makes lots of white smoke, a bit of banging noise, unstable running, Engine Check light and P1246 fault code.

P1246 is F/INJ TIMG F/B:
Injection timing feedback system does not operate properly. (This system consists essentially of ECM, injection timing control valve and needle lift sensor.)

Check Items:
Harness or connectors (Injection timing control valve, needle lift sensor,crankshaft position sensor (TDC) circuits)
Injection timing control valve
Needle lift sensor
Crankshaft position sensor (TDC)
Air in fuel line

Any ideas? This is new pump to me, maybe adjust timing manually by simply moving IP and listening to the sound engine makes, without any tools?
Help, please!

sounds like new pump to me to but worth checking the needle lift sensor and crank position sensor first as pump expensive, but cncfabs may have one, Rick

 

[-=Alex=-]

Rick, this is pump I bought last week, and crank position sensor was checked last month.
Now I'm thinking about needle lift sensor, this is my last hope.

 

[geoffdown]

Rick, this is pump I bought last week, and crank position sensor was checked last month.
Now I'm thinking about needle lift sensor, this is my last hope.

right were all the injectors bad as if the 1 with the wire was then the sensor would more then likely be fook as it is in the path of the crappy wvo ur using and u cant be fixed u need a new injector which also means work done on it was awaste of money unless u keep it to replace either injector 2,3 or 4 which don't need the sensor does that make sense

 

[-=Alex=-]

Checked needle sensor and timing advance valve resistance and continuity.
Everything ok, as per manual.
Engine runs ok except white smoke, high vibration and P1246 fault.
The only thing I can do now is forget about pump adjustment and move it manually.

 

[-=Alex=-]

Checked needle sensor and timing advance valve resistance and continuity.
Everything ok, as per manual.
Engine runs ok except white smoke, high vibration and P1246 fault.
The only thing I can do now is forget about pump adjustment and move it manually.

 

[solarman216]

Rick, this is pump I bought last week, and crank position sensor was checked last month.
Now I'm thinking about needle lift sensor, this is my last hope.

Was this a recon IP or a used one, Rick

 

[dave123]

Checked needle sensor and timing advance valve resistance and continuity.
Everything ok, as per manual.
Engine runs ok except white smoke, high vibration and P1246 fault.
The only thing I can do now is forget about pump adjustment and move it manually.

how do you check the needle lift sensor for resistance and continuity. ?