CAUTION ref. SUNFLOWER OIL.!

[solarman216]

while we are having a cuppa , shall we discuss geomagnetic effects on radio signal propogation ? ....:naughty

Much prefer to talk about Toroidal Squish and Combustion chambers, Rick

 

[Bat21]

Much prefer to talk about Toroidal Squish and Combustion chambers, Rick

Now it's funny you should mention that Rick :augie

Due to a problem with the cooling system pressurising, I decided to take the head off the other day. I couldn't see any signs of obvious head gasket or head problems once it was off...

... but there was water in No6 bore, there was also a slight ring of fresh rust before I cleaned it up.

Have a look at this close up..... doesn't look good.

So, I ordered some of THIS which provided a definitive answer.

Not very clear images but I'm sure you see the results

Yup... it has a cracked bore... bugger

 

[solarman216]

Thats bad news, I have a 1975 lister st 2 water cooled engine all up together apart from one cylinder that has a crack not dissimilar to yours but, but a replacement is not available, (the damage was caused by a dropped valve did the piston and the head got replacements for these) I must say yours is in a rather odd place to crack, funny enough my race slogan is "Toroidal Squish" you will see it on all my bangers, and only recently Swifty pulled a head and when I saw the block I told him what it was, same as yours toroidal cavity in the piston, ah well reminis and all that, best regards Rick

 

[extreme-4x4]

a guide to the smoke pointof oils ( the point at which it is close to bursting into flames) note this is for culinary purooses only!

as you can see generaly speaking the temp for veg oil round 200 and sunflower around 250 a significant difference. but how much difference this makes in an engine i have no idea, nor do i know the smoke and flash points of diesel to compare!


Smoke Points
Safflower 265 degrees C
Sunflower 246 degrees C
Soybean 241 degrees C
Canola 238 degrees C
Corn 236 degrees C
Peanut 231 degrees C
Sesame 215 degrees C
Olive 190 degrees C
Lards 183 to 205 degrees C


A number of factors will decrease the smoke point of any fat:

combination of vegetable oils in products
presence of foreign properties (batter)
temperature to which oil is heated
presence of salt
number of times oil is used
length of time oil is heated
storage of oil (exposure to oxygen, light, temperature)

sorry for joining the debate so late on. but

are these not the point of flash (flash point)

well thats all well and good. but what are the heats we are getting from flash ( combustion )

obviously these are points measured in some lab for cooking purposes.
and not in a sealed cylinder with a dirty great turbo fueling the fire .

and a turbo that has been tweeked to shove more air in than everyone elses
not to mention the splash of petrol going in too

was it the petrol or the burn temp on the svo or petrol or the turbo tweek. or just old glow plugs

fact is no one knows what its doing,

i have not bothered reading it all, cant be arsed to be honest. ive tried the svo and the wvo and yes it works but i dont like it. yes it helps when your skint and thats the only time i use it....

 

[robobone]

sorry for joining the debate so late on. but

are these not the point of flash (flash point)

well thats all well and good. but what are the heats we are getting from flash ( combustion )

obviously these are points measured in some lab for cooking purposes.
and not in a sealed cylinder with a dirty great turbo fueling the fire .

and a turbo that has been tweeked to shove more air in than everyone elses
not to mention the splash of petrol going in too

was it the petrol or the burn temp on the svo or petrol or the turbo tweek. or just old glow plugs

fact is no one knows what its doing,

i have not bothered reading it all, cant be arsed to be honest. ive tried the svo and the wvo and yes it works but i dont like it. yes it helps when your skint and thats the only time i use it....

oh nooooooo dont start it up again:naughty:doh

 

[(RIP) PLANK]

sorry for joining the debate so late on. but

are these not the point of flash (flash point)

well thats all well and good. but what are the heats we are getting from flash ( combustion )

obviously these are points measured in some lab for cooking purposes.
and not in a sealed cylinder with a dirty great turbo fueling the fire .

and a turbo that has been tweeked to shove more air in than everyone elses
not to mention the splash of petrol going in too

was it the petrol or the burn temp on the svo or petrol or the turbo tweek. or just old glow plugs

fact is no one knows what its doing,

i have not bothered reading it all, cant be arsed to be honest. ive tried the svo and the wvo and yes it works but i dont like it. yes it helps when your skint and thats the only time i use it....

i used all thaat to raise questions, one was the same as yours, that no one bothered with as they were too busy with the row. It had becme more important than finding any real info or solutions

 

[Adz]

I really can't be arsed to "back pedal" but just to try & get the thread back on the original track :augie

There was NO PETROL involved in the SUN FLOWER OIL incident.!

I put 100% Sun Flower Oil in at Wales & drove the 300+ miles back to Essex at motor way speed's...

The Glow Plugs where new when i purchased Dirty Frog, so there around 18 months old... It had a replacement manual Zexel fuel pump too...

The result of the Sun Flower Oil caused the glow plugs to burn to hot, block the fuel filter housing & render the pump inoperative :doh

Read this post & the 1st couple & draw up your own conclusion :thumbs

The End, over & out, breaker - breaker, that's a big 10-4.


:thumbs

 

[dinky]

Must be a common fault on landcruisers as friends r plate amazon has just had his engine replaced due to cracked bord on no6.

 

[Adz]

I wonder if the cracked cylinder head on harlowmavericks old engine was caused by ignorance of alternative fuels or the above :nenau

I know now for a definite that i will revise before experimenting again as next time it could be worse & get to the engine :nenau

 

[Deleted account DD]

i used all thaat to raise questions,

I did actually try to head that way more than once. its actually very interesting and quite salient to those of us who tweak things!!!!!!!

What I was basically told (by a chemist)in this context was that two of the main factors affecting combustion that could knacker an engine are droplet size and combustibility of the liquid fuel. Thats because particularly under pressure the dynamics of the explosion change significantly.

That chart shows the smoke temp. I dont know but I would guess on something as relatively stable as oil flash point is just beyond each of the figures posted :nenau

There are loads of other variables that could affect the overall result of combustion. They include ambient temp, oil temp, air volume and mix, the unknown compression of the cylinder its all being lobbed into etc etc.

What is known is that the composition of the oil is close enough in terms of calorific value and combustibility to run in a suitable reasonably stock engine with no great worries.

So you pump it in.

Any non standard changes can affect how the mix explodes in the chamber. That includes volume and mix of air, pressure its forced in at by the turbo, compression within the chamber all sorts, its a pretty endless list.

If sufficient fuel mix has made it through the injectors its a fairly safe bet its viscosity is within limits for the engine. However chemically you have an unknown ratio of mixture, at an unknown flow rate , you are lobbing it into an unknown pressurised chamber, at an unknown entry pressure to carry out a controlled explosion.

l of those factors can affect the ignition point and burning temp of the fuel.

Conclusion of that ramble?

Characteristics of svo make it a suitable diesel replacement in some engines. However that engine was designed for diesel. You modify and change other factors and you should really consider that the basic fuel mixture under duress is also a significant factor. SVO under increased pressure with less oxygen content for example may react differently than diesel under increased pressure with less oxygen content. whilst the svo mix may have a stock engine at one end of its acceptable limits tweaking the turbo boost may take it beyond that whereas a diesel mix would only shift within those limits.

Without having that data you cannot say what did and what didnt do what. All you can say is its possible ,but when you look at the stock motors running cheerfully on the stuff the evidence tends to suggest the fuel alone isnt a problem

 

[briggie]

isnt the viscosity of some alternative fuels sometimes a problem too ?

 

[Deleted account DD]

isnt the viscosity of some alternative fuels sometimes a problem too ?

absolutley but that can change dramatically , in my post im talking about an svo thats ok viscosity wise in stock form as most are in T2s :thumb2

 

[briggie]

this is a interesting site , if you are into that sort of thing


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/kinematic-viscosity-d_397.html

 

[briggie]

this is a interesting site , if you are into that sort of thing


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/kinematic-viscosity-d_397.html

note the entry of beer too :augie:lol

 

[briggie]

perhaps we should start another thread on alternative fuels ? :nenau

 

[extreme-4x4]

why are people so desperate to start new thread all over the place.why not keep looking into this problem here. this thread has plenty of new information and alternative views on the subject. if you put all the pointless bickering aside

valuable thread this one i think:thumbs

 

[Deleted account DD]

why are people so desperate to start new thread all over the place.why not keep looking into this problem here. this thread has plenty of new information and alternative views on the subject. if you put all the pointless bickering aside

valuable thread this one i think:thumbs

:thumb2:thumb2

 

[MontysMaverick]

Extreme 4x4 Couldnt agree more, it all over the shop and to some this is a valuable thread :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs :thumbs

 

[lacroupade]

Killer thread lads!

Poor old Adz seems to have broken every rule in the book on SVO (which includes sunflower oil - which happens to be one of the best forms of SVO you can get actually) and paid the price. That and the tweaking he appears to have done to his turbo etc.. are, as has been said exhaustively (no pun intended), are what are to blame, not the SVO.

As a long term happy user of sunflower oil on a 50/50 mix, I feel obliged to stick up for it!:thumb2:thumb2:thumb2

 

[lacroupade]

Actually Adz I'm just curious where this 'sunflower oil' came from?

The reason I ask is that its usually pretty expensive.

Tesco-type vegetable oil is bottom of the pile cos its as the name suggests - it contains pretty much anything oily that can be squeezed out of a vegetable or plant, including second/third/fourth pressings from some of these sources (first pressings are kept for premium sale, a bit like extra virgin olive oil).

Then further up the scale you get Mazola-type corn oils, with rape seed oil in the same kind of bracket as far as I'm aware.

Then right up the top you get stuff like sunflower oil. Now the first thing is that it isn't produced in the UK since we don't have the climate for large volumes of sunflowers to grow economically, or to dry out before harvesting.

So it usually comes from the continent with all the extra cost that involves and, because its high quality, its most frequently used in the cosmetics industry where it imports trade at around £1,000 for a 1000 litre IBC, or £1 a litre....not very economical.

Admittedly I just finished a 1000 litre IBC of the lovely stuff that I paid only £500 for but thats cos it was gash stock when the Body Shop sub-contractor stopped manufacturing in Newport last year and sold all their raw materials and work in progress cheap. But thats all long since gone and I've never found a source even remotely near it in price despite searching far and wide..

So I'm puzzling over how you apparently came by 60 litres of the stuff at a price more economic than diesel...? Just curious as it may not have been quite what you were led to believe.....:nenau