Zippy and 4x4 response

[zippy656]

yay, on stand by...


just in case....

 

[rustic]

Hi Zippy, I read about the 4x4 response on the web, clearely it's voluntary, and you may get called by certain organisations.

I understand you need to get additional insurance for voluntary work, and you have to show competance in controlling the vehicle etc, and have the appropriate recovery equipment and know how to use it and know the limits of the vehicle.

Do you get fuel allowance or mileage and how many miles would you do per year say?
What happens if you are at work and help is required ?

I am aware that others on the forum do this but many may not know what is involved.

Best regards,
Rustic

 

[zippy656]

Hi Zippy, I read about the 4x4 response on the web, clearely it's voluntary, and you may get called by certain organisations.

yes, the organisations sign up and agree to pay milage OR fuel.
no good if your keeping people warm with a running engin but only do a few miles and use 3/4 tank of fuel ( £60 )


I understand you need to get additional insurance for voluntary work, and you have to show competance in controlling the vehicle etc, and have the appropriate recovery equipment and know how to use it and know the limits of the vehicle.

some insurance companys are OK with is as long as you tell them BEFORE the event... public liabilty insurance is covers but 4x4 resomnse..

recover equipment.. NOPE not needed its PEOPLE and EQUIPMENT we move.. recovery of cars ectis left to some one else.

Do you get fuel allowance or mileage and how many miles would you do per year say? so fat THIS year i have done 100 miles ish...


What happens if you are at work and help is required ? its all down to YOUR boss. he can let you go.. or not.. with OR without PAY, depends one nice and helpful he is.. ( im still working on mine )

I am aware that others on the forum do this but many may not know what is involved.

Best regards,
Rustic

any more question ask away... if i can answer im sure some one else will...

 

[Deleted account DD]

Cant knock the volunteers, they make up a significant and useful service :thumb2 theyre acknowledged in the civil contingencies act too.


However you need to bear several points in mind relating to tasks youre asked to undertake.

Im no expert but i have researched some of the points.

One most important one is the insurance, it all depends on the risk in what youre doing. Some activities such as the transport of prisoners as discussed on here earlier this year is an absolute no no for most (just have a peek in the back of a lock up van if you want to see what makes an acceptable transport unit). I have business use on my car and am on call but its a condition I dont transport either.

Another one is you. I'm not sure what checks zippy and his mates have been through but I would have thought crb checks are a minimum.

You also have the standard of their driving and convictions to put into perspective. Im not aware of any protocol to cover that. an anyone help out on that? Is there a caveat that all you do is on your own back with no cause use permit involved???

 

[solarman216]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick

 

[R1cho]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick

:clap:clap:clap I agree, if i passed someone that needed help i would stop to help out as much as i could, as i would hope someone would do for me.

 

[BongoBerry]

most insurance companies don't have an issue with the 4x4 response work, it is good practise to let them know however.

with regards the "work" it varies from moving folks about for 999 call centre staff, picking up docs,nurses, specialists etc to the odd recovery

fuel allowances etc can depend on the organizations and agreements in place, i've done , receipts for fuel and mile allowances ... just depends how their systems work

all in all good fun and beats watching the trash on TV at night

 

[kbekl]

i can only talk about the nw group as i thin keach group is actually different

we have a training officer that was part of the army training center for off road driving and we have a second training officer which deals with maps reading ect and a third training officer that deals with equipment, we also have a recovery man with truck

we have monthly meets where we will train and use equipment just to keep busy and gets us out of the house lol

we have public liability insurance that covers our group only alsoinsurance companies are made aware of our involvement in the group normally via post

we have just been given £700 for our involvement in the Keswick 2 Barrow walk

we do have a training session in the lake district on sunday which is map reading in the snow (if it snows lol)

from our site

what is it as a team we are offering to the general public?

Generally anything we can do to help, within reason of course. We are not a glorified taxi service for example but if there is a genuine need then we are here to help

do you actually get called out to people in distress?

not so much, we arent an emergency service. we are more there to provide logistical support to the emergency services if required. obviously there are only so many 4x4's in the police/ambulance/fire service so where we can help we will do

what as a response team member are you actually required to perform?

we are not required to do anything. we do what we are able to do as long as its safe. no-one is expected to do anything they are not comfortable doing

and what is actually expected of you as a member as it isnt all training and going for meets ?

nothing is expected of you. the whole idea of being a volunteer is putting in the time if you are able. this can be an hour or the whole thing so nothing is expected of anyone other than acting responsibly and representing the group in a professional friendly manner

Its also important to remember that every call out to the group will be handled by the group co-ordinator (Dave) and he will evaluate whether it is something we should be involved in or not.
For example a call from a member of the public who can't get off their driveway to go to the shops will not be treated in the same way as a police call to assist a woman stranded in the middle of nowhere in the snow. Both are effectively a recovery job but one will carry a far higher likelihood of attendance.

All responders are quite within their rights to turn down a call out as well. If you do not feel a call is within your capabilities, is in your opinion dangerous or you are simply unable to attend then there is no problem saying no. Its better for someone to say no and another responder attend than to get one of our own in trouble as well as the original reason for the call out.

Finally every callout should have a minimum of 2 responders and vehicles attend. This provides for safety and security of the responders.

 

[makeitfit]

:clap:clap:clap I agree, if i passed someone that needed help i would stop to help out as much as i could, as i would hope someone would do for me.

I'm not stopping to help plod
I live in hope :augie

 

[briggie]

id like to help out with 4x4 response , but im not sure how id get on because of my mobility problems .. ie if i get stuck , or have to get out of the vehicle

 

[macabethiel]

4 x 4 respnse

The reason I bought my first 4 wd vehicle in January 2006 (An old Merc 300TE 4-Matic) was when I went fishing to Mapperly Reservoir near Ilkeston in a RWD Estate Car I got stuck in a light snow covering much like today.

A chap who had gone out in his Jap 4x4 for fun - I think it was a Musso gave me a tow as I had a tow rope in my boot. I was very grateful that he towed me the quarter of a mile up the slight hill. He would not take any money from me and I decided I needed 4 WD. I had had a few incidents of being almost stuck on wet grass and in mud at various venues so this was the last straw so as to speak.

My 300 TE was a great motor and cheap (£900) and when I sold it with collapsed rear self-levelling suspension I recovered £375 of the outlay by selling it off in bits.

I bought my R3mR Auto in August 2007 from a local trader who I have known for almost 40 years. I did not even realise that it was not a UK type Terrano I thought it was a parallel import !

I was despearate for a replacement vehicle and paid a lot for my truck it was £3300 with new MoT, tax and new tyres. It had had a lot of work done to maintain the vehicle and everything worked even the Aircon. The bodywork was in fantastic condition and free of dents etc.

As we speak her indoors is in France in the truck doing the booze run for Christmas and I know it will not let her down.

I now know why people like 4 x 4 vehicles I just wish I had bought one years ago! I carry a tow rope and would help anyone in difficulty but would only do this on the spur of the moment basis not as a volunteer. If I was 40 years younger then I would volunteer - stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !

 

[Deleted account DD]

Are we not getting near the aspect of like the police officers who, as they were not trained to rescue from water would not help a drowning person because of that, sorry but if I find someone in trouble and I can help with my 4x4 and feel inclined to do so I will and that is the end of it, this country has gone far enough off the rails as far as I am concerned, but then I have always done what I want when I want so it will make no difference anyway, Rick

Lets get something straight here, it was not police officers, it was pcsos. In reality completely different. It was actually a cop who upon arrival went in. But of course you are limited by what the press says if you believe it :nenau The coroners inquest made far more sense.

Moving on.

Essentially the difference between spontaneous assistance eg jumping in to save a drowning person or stopping to tow a stranded car and all of the considerations involved are poles apart from pre planned operations which zippy and his colleagues are involved in.


A dead, debilitated or injured responder is not a good one.

 

[Deleted account DD]

I now know why people like 4 x 4 vehicles I just wish I had bought one years ago! I carry a tow rope and would help anyone in difficulty but would only do this on the spur of the moment basis not as a volunteer. If I was 40 years younger then I would volunteer - stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !

:thumb2

 

[Deleted account DD]

with regards the "work" it varies from moving folks about for 999 call centre staff, picking up docs,nurses, specialists etc to the odd recovery

Absolutely appropriate too. However once youre sucked into it, particularly in whats commonly known as the "heroic phase" of an incident you will get asked to do and successfully carry out jobs beyond that remit.

Once you hit the trough beyond that and the cold light of day hits things will look different.

Fair do's as I said above spontaneous assistance is fine but dont let it become the norm.

The example I quoted regarding a 4x4 member transporting prisoners is a very real one and as a routine task he undertook entirely inappropriate.

As far as the insurance goes, anyone who is with the Admiral group does need to check up. I wasnt exactly impressed by the answer I got from them . Effectively 4x4 response work = full business use.

 

[zippy656]

stranded blondes in short skirts would be a speciality !

oh i wish....



my only blonde to date was a 50 year old paramedic all in he greens taking her to bristol ambulance station from Salibury..

 

[BongoBerry]

id like to help out with 4x4 response , but im not sure how id get on because of my mobility problems .. ie if i get stuck , or have to get out of the vehicle

Hiya,

if you want to get involved, and happen to be good at juggling a few balls at the same time while watching telly and playing a game of chess you may want to consider being a controller. (dispatching folks to meet demand and reallocating based on position etc)

absolutely essential role in response team, and you need not leave your chair let alone your house

just a thought

 

[BongoBerry]

Absolutely appropriate too. However once youre sucked into it, particularly in whats commonly known as the "heroic phase" of an incident you will get asked to do and successfully carry out jobs beyond that remit.

Once you hit the trough beyond that and the cold light of day hits things will look different.

Fair do's as I said above spontaneous assistance is fine but dont let it become the norm.

The example I quoted regarding a 4x4 member transporting prisoners is a very real one and as a routine task he undertook entirely inappropriate.

As far as the insurance goes, anyone who is with the Admiral group does need to check up. I wasnt exactly impressed by the answer I got from them . Effectively 4x4 response work = full business use.

Yep i hear you. Not to mention how many folks think you are a "company" .. so who do you work for? lol.... I run with the mentality of helping folks with a healthy dose of common sense on the side. I'm never putting myself, or my 4x4 at unecessary risk especially in the bad weather.

Road-side assistance can be covered by the group insurance if you call it in and its allocated to you. Its up to you to make the judgement call as to whether you are capable to assist.

of course not everything one does requires the groups approval either (good old fashioned neighbourlyness ... if thats a word)

 

[briggie]

just checked our insurance policies ... it says class 1 business use ..... is that ok ?:nenau

 

[BongoBerry]

just checked our insurance policies ... it says class 1 business use ..... is that ok ?:nenau

if thats your personal insurance it should be fine, some insurance companies try and stitch you up as they consider fuel money as payment and ergo you are a cab/taxi.

others realise that you volunteer for a charity and you are not "getting paid"

however, do contact your insurance company and ask them. its quite common practise for them to send you a letter stating that the volunteer work is ok

 

[Deleted account DD]

however, do contact your insurance company and ask them. its quite common practise for them to send you a letter stating that the volunteer work is ok

Agreed :thumb2 i always ask for written confirmation from them. Email is ok too as most archive all electronic comms for around 7 years so it can be shown it originated from them

As far as suggested involvement for Briggie, I would think he would enjoy it.

You'll find ,Briggie, you get involved with all sorts in connection with it as the CCA puts a statutory obligation on other responders, cat 1 & 2 to train and raise awareness BEFORE the incident.

W Yorks are pretty active if you make the right contact (or dont trendies say "touch base" arrghhhhhh puke)