Vague steering

[Blocky10]

Hi guys.
I've noticed I've started scrubbing the outside of the tyres. Have been underneath with the missus rocking the steering and all ball joints seem ok. Also had each front wheel off the ground and there's the slightest of play in both?
Searching the forum I've found reference to the idler arm bushes or replacement unit. Is there anything I've missed?
Cheers.
Ian

 

[rustic]

Possibly wheel bearings, easy to adjust, see down loads.

 

[macabethiel]

Hi guys.
I've noticed I've started scrubbing the outside of the tyres. Have been underneath with the missus rocking the steering and all ball joints seem ok. Also had each front wheel off the ground and there's the slightest of play in both?
Searching the forum I've found reference to the idler arm bushes or replacement unit. Is there anything I've missed?
Cheers.
Ian

To confirm it is the wheel bearings get the Missus to apply the foot brake. If the play disappears its the wheel bearings.

Scrubbing on the outside indicates too much toe out.

 

[elty001]

At a guess I would say the Draglink and tie rods are possibly wearing. Is there alot of free play in the steering wheel before it seems to do anything?

 

[Blocky10]

To confirm it is the wheel bearings get the Missus to apply the foot brake. If the play disappears its the wheel bearings.

Scrubbing on the outside indicates too much toe out.

Cheers. I'll give it a look.

 

[jims-terrano]

We had the discussions last year regarding wheel bearing play and the brake stopping the movement. As Rick advised me at the time the play is still there brake or no brake. Wheel bearings dead easy to adjust but Id say it isnt causing any steering issues unless really bad.
Id check track rods at either side, the centre drag link or relay as Ive heard it described and also the passenger side idler which is basically the pivot between track rod and drag link. Last time I checked bushes were not available for the idler, the replacement from Milners that I got had bolt holes slightly out and needed elongating to fit.

Good luck

 

[Blocky10]

At a guess I would say the Draglink and tie rods are possibly wearing. Is there alot of free play in the steering wheel before it seems to do anything?

Not that I've noticed but it has started drifting across the road depending on which way the camber is?
Also when changing lanes the steering wheel gives a little shake.
When reversing off the drive we do a 180 so it's lock to lock so I'm thinking it's a little bit of everything i.e. all the ball joints, idler arm bushes and wheel bearings?.
Cheers for the replies. Hopefully it'll manage the Wiltshire Weekend then it'll be coming off the road for a few weeks. :naughty

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

Not that I've noticed but it has started drifting across the road depending on which way the camber is?
Also when changing lanes the steering wheel gives a little shake.
When reversing off the drive we do a 180 so it's lock to lock so I'm thinking it's a little bit of everything i.e. all the ball joints, idler arm bushes and wheel bearings?.
Cheers for the replies. Hopefully it'll manage the Wiltshire Weekend then it'll be coming off the road for a few weeks. :naughty

Yeh I would go with that, a cumulative effect of all the links etc.. Mine is starting to get the same, it had the anti roll bar drop links changed for last mot and that made an improvement though!

 

[jims-terrano]

Made a huge difference to my 05 plate when Bigbunny changed idler, track rods and drag link.

Dont forget to get the tracking done after replacing any of those bits:thumb2

 

[elty001]

Also check the compression rod bushes on the lower wishbone.
The cup washers on the chassis had cracked on mine and it effected the camber and steering.

 

[Blocky10]

Morning guys and gals.
Steering is no different after adjusting wheel bearings, 're-indexing torsion bars and having a wheel alignment.
So next step is replacement idler and ball joints, of which I've counted 6.
My question is, where do you suggest I should buy these from. Milners or other 4x4 specialist, or my local motor factor?
The suspension standard.

The guy who tried the wheel alignment also said there is a little play in the steering box? Now there is a chance he knows nowt about these setups and I wasn't going to get into it with him then, but if there is, are these serviceable with a kit?

Cheers. :thumb2

 

[jims-terrano]

Have you had front end in the air (securely supported of course) and had a good feel around and moved the wheels to see what happens.

I've had local tyre fitters tell me they couldn't do tracking because there was too much play in the steering box, still on the same box 10 years later.

Weak points that I've had replaced or replaced myself were the LH steering idler which is the pivot on the chassis.

The two track rods that connect wheel hubs with either the idler or the steering box. You can buy just the ends but I think it's far better to buy complete and assemble them with grease or copper grease on the threads to help prevent them rusting stuck.

The centre drag link that goes between both the idler and box under the engine.

Had to replace all of the above parts not long after getting my 05 plate, this really made a big difference but cost a bit in parts.

The drag link and track rods from milners were fine but the idler was a pain because the mounting holes were slightly off. Bigbunny fitted it for me and fortunately he had the tools to enlarge the holes to make it fit. I've heard of this before on those idlers bout from milners. Now you could buy from your local motor factors and have the same problems. Milners are certainly cheaper and generally speaking you get enough discount to cover postage. If I were replacing all those I would be replacing the ARBs too but hang fire as you may here of Rose Joint links on here in the near future and those are the way to go.

Personally in your position and if you are keeping the truck I would replace all the steering parts as I described and then get the tracking done immediately as it will be out.

Good luck

 

[rustic]

Noboody has mentioned wheels or tyres, if you have steel rims, one might be buckled slightly, also there may be something behind the rim to hub stopping it seating correctly. It might be a wonky tyre or wheel balance.
There have been issues of even new tyres not being able to be balanced at all due to a manufacturing defect.

So try this no cost investigation, swap tyres front to back, but clean mating faces. Half hour job, maybe remove the odd stone, check for nails etc.

Note, could be a waste of time doing it if you find it is still the same, but just a thought.

Here is a question, with engine off, how much side to side movement do you get say at the top of the steering wheel, as you rotate it lightly left to right, ie what is the free play? if I recall 35mm is considered normal.
Rustic

 

[Blocky10]

Have you had front end in the air (securely supported of course) and had a good feel around and moved the wheels to see what happens.

I've had local tyre fitters tell me they couldn't do tracking because there was too much play in the steering box, still on the same box 10 years later.

Weak points that I've had replaced or replaced myself were the LH steering idler which is the pivot on the chassis.

The two track rods that connect wheel hubs with either the idler or the steering box. You can buy just the ends but I think it's far better to buy complete and assemble them with grease or copper grease on the threads to help prevent them rusting stuck.

The centre drag link that goes between both the idler and box under the engine.

Had to replace all of the above parts not long after getting my 05 plate, this really made a big difference but cost a bit in parts.

The drag link and track rods from milners were fine but the idler was a pain because the mounting holes were slightly off. Bigbunny fitted it for me and fortunately he had the tools to enlarge the holes to make it fit. I've heard of this before on those idlers bout from milners. Now you could buy from your local motor factors and have the same problems. Milners are certainly cheaper and generally speaking you get enough discount to cover postage. If I were replacing all those I would be replacing the ARBs too but hang fire as you may here of Rose Joint links on here in the near future and those are the way to go.

Personally in your position and if you are keeping the truck I would replace all the steering parts as I described and then get the tracking done immediately as it will be out.

Good luck

Morning Jim. Had the steering wheel rocked back and forth for ages while I laid underneath gripping every joint. It was still on the ground though as I thought I would stand a better chance of feeling movement when it was working against the ground. The only thing I could feel was slight play in the wheel bearings that I've since adjusted.
My thinking is that I should get the 6 ball joints and associated bars and arms replaced in one go rather than a bit here and a bit there and having to get the tracking adjusted enemy time.
Then tracked and fingers crossed. I'll do arb links too and get rose joints when available.

Cheers Jim. :thumb2

 

[Blocky10]

Noboody has mentioned wheels or tyres, if you have steel rims, one might be buckled slightly, also there may be something behind the rim to hub stopping it seating correctly. It might be a wonky tyre or wheel balance.
There have been issues of even new tyres not being able to be balanced at all due to a manufacturing defect.

So try this no cost investigation, swap tyres front to back, but clean mating faces. Half hour job, maybe remove the odd stone, check for nails etc.

Note, could be a waste of time doing it if you find it is still the same, but just a thought.

Here is a question, with engine off, how much side to side movement do you get say at the top of the steering wheel, as you rotate it lightly left to right, ie what is the free play? if I recall 35mm is considered normal.
Rustic

Thanks rustic. I'll check the free play today.
Point taken about wheels and tyres. I checked them over after adjusting the wheel bearings and seemed ok. No harm in swapping front to back so I'll try this too but after having the tracking done, it is actually worse. People scream and run when I corner and round a bouts sounds like I'm on a race track!

 

[solarman216]

The guy who tried the wheel alignment also said there is a little play in the steering box? Now there is a chance he knows nowt about these setups and I wasn't going to get into it with him then, but if there is, are these serviceable with a kit?

Cheers. :thumb2

You say "tried the wheel alignment" was it out and did he adjust it to the correct value? if your tyres are scrubbing then I would have expected it to be out, do not forget once a tyre has started to scrub ie wear on the inside or outside edge, there is no stopping it even after tracking sorted as the tyre now has two different rolling radius-es and the scrubbed part will scrub even more due to it needing to turn quicker as it is smaller, re the steering box it is adjustable, there is a thread on this someplace, Rick

 

[solarman216]

Thanks rustic. I'll check the free play today.
Point taken about wheels and tyres. I checked them over after adjusting the wheel bearings and seemed ok. No harm in swapping front to back so I'll try this too but after having the tracking done, it is actually worse. People scream and run when I corner and round a bouts sounds like I'm on a race track!

When did you last do your LSD diff oil, mine is in need of doing and the rear wheels squeal on most corners, if your fronts are squealing then pull the fixed hubs off and give it a test run, if that stops it you have a transmission problem, Rick

 

[Banshee]

You've just tweaked the torsion bars to bring the front of the car level with the rear.

In doing this the angles of your tie rod ends will have increased thus placing them under more stress, I can promise you it will be either the drag link joints or the tie rod joints. You'd know about it if it was the idler arm bush.

Just to prove how bad mine was before I've just swapped it I'll upload the video

#33Life

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

You've just tweaked the torsion bars to bring the front of the car level with the rear.

In doing this the angles of your tie rod ends will have increased thus placing them under more stress, I can promise you it will be either the drag link joints or the tie rod joints. You'd know about it if it was the idler arm bush.

Just to prove how bad mine was before I've just swapped it I'll upload the video

#33Life

Bloody ell, so that was some worn joints?

Ps, I got that free steering box

 

[Banshee]

Bloody ell, so that was some worn joints?

Ps, I got that free steering box

Jammy sod :thumb2 I'm gonna be chopping mine up today usinga mixture of Elty and Alex's pictures, wish me luck.