Towing Speed

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Safe is 50, legal max has been raised to 60.

There are other reasons why people tow too fast or roll over.

1. Anti snake devices, such as Alco hitches stabilise the trailer. It is a bit of a oxymoron, as all it does in reality is take away the WARNING that you are starting to snake, until it is too much for the device to take - and that is certainly too much for many drivers to put right!

So remember; Alco hitches will remove the natural movement that acts as a warning - doesn't mean you can go faster....just means you won't know you have a problem until a little later!

2. Caravan ABS systems do lull the tugger into a false sense of security, as they feel the rules don't apply to them as the caravan is fitted with ABS. Yes it will make stopping easier when you need to - doesn't give you open access to drive like there is nothing behind you! Gadgets fail....and you have something like 20k worth on the back of your money!

3. Choice of tow vehicle is a factor - you not only want something with the weight that can tow a caravan, but something with soft enough suspension as not to damage the caravan chassis through vibration, but firm enough to hold its' own when the trailer wanders. Interestingly, 90% of matchstick accidents are towed by Discos! - don't feel you are above though, as the terrano is reknowned for having a soft ride!

4. State of the roads has a lot to do with it. Many of the motorways/dual carriageways under recent governments have been badly maintained. These result in deep ruts from heavier vehicles. When towing, these will throw you about as your trailer dips in and out of the ruts...it effects lorries as much as car/trailers - those weaving drivers are not asleep or drunk - the trailer is dragging the lorry around! Be aware of these, keep the speed down and try to straddle if able. Many roll overs strat of will an uncontrollable weave from ruts!

Thats some 'proffesional' advice from a guy that used to clear up the mess from matchstick martyrs, and tow lorries/trailers all over!
 
Any idiot can tow a trailer at high speed, it's when something goes wrong there is a problem.

correct but any idiot can drive any car at any speed . Thats the fundamental problem. Basic driving ability and awareness of whats going on and not just autopilot. some people should not be allowed out in pedal cars let alone to tow.

The brakes on a trailer rely on the over-run principle,

becoming increasingly incorrect as a carte blanche, certainly the case on my vehicle and caravan particularly outside of routine slowing and braking.

http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/al-ko-atc.html Most vans that have that also now have more car lik suspension with shockers all round as opposed to the old squishy rubber bushes. you can tell the difference immediately you hit the road.

add all of that to a car that has a tow rate of 3.5tonnes with only 1.8 tonnes on the back which clocks in at less than 80% . has a trailer detection and stability control in the vehicles stabilty/traction system and i would suggest that you have a very safe solid set up that is well within its capabilties and makes for a hassle free towing possibly up to the Bailey rated max (where permissible of course) of 80mph, which is quite clearly stated in their handbook when talking about the tyres.

You do need a decent driver and loader for the set up and thats where the daft family in their ford focus with a twin axle senator on the back are the problem.

You just cant judge everyone the same.
dont forget as well when most speedos are showing around 65 youre probably doing a true 60 :naughty

the ones id have every time (and have done :naughty) are camping trailers, unbraked motorcycle and boat trailers et al towed at over 50mph. They are by far and away the most dangerous because you effectively have a pendulum on the back of your car over which even the best has little control under hard braking. Im sure theyve changed since i last looked but when i did most of the pram type tyres they have were only rated to 60mph :eek:
 
I like these open discussion posts, :thumb2 :thumb2

I wasn't aware of the new technology going into caravans and trailers. :thumb2

My concern with all these safety features, is that it can encourage people to drive faster thinking that they are "Captain Scarlet"

Certainly for the sensible driver it will make their journey safer, in the same way that air bags and ABS have saved many lives and serious injuries.

However hitting a tree is still a major killer at any speed over 25-30 mph.

A blowout on a trailer tyre (or the car) could still cause a crash, I know some trailers are now fitted with these bands that keep the tyre on the rim, but there is no immunity to mechanical failure, or driver error.
 
I like these open discussion posts, :thumb2 :thumb2

:thumb2:thumb2

I wasn't aware of the new technology going into caravans and trailers. :thumb2

My concern with all these safety features, is that it can encourage people to drive faster thinking that they are "Captain Scarlet"

Certainly for the sensible driver it will make their journey safer, in the same way that air bags and ABS have saved many lives and serious injuries.

However hitting a tree is still a major killer at any speed over 25-30 mph.

A blowout on a trailer tyre (or the car) could still cause a crash, I know some trailers are now fitted with these bands that keep the tyre on the rim, but there is no immunity to mechanical failure, or driver error.

I agree, these aids will make some pillocks think they are indestructible but then again i reckon air bags and abs had the same effect when they became common place :confused:

The way I look at this technology and how i reckon it should be viewed is a bit like a pilot, particularly fast jets.

They learn to fly on a very basic no frills seat of your pants jet which hones their basic skills (learning to drive) they then move on up the tree (extra bits on the licence) unti they reach wherever they want to go.

A common misconception about fast jet pilots is they fly the plane on their skill, a bit like towing ;) they do but only to a degree. they need to literally keep a weather eye open, they need excellent spacial awareness but most surprising they would not be able to old something like a tornado in straight and level flight without their version of traction control, abs or alko trac. The planes are so inherently unstable they need electronics the likes of which are creeping into cars all the time to keep it safe and steady :thumb2

Good driver plus good kit :bow

On the puncture topic I agree too , one of my dreads but with a twin axle you do have more of a chance.
 
I had to do an emergancy bracke and an avoidance manoevure on the m5 last year (not easy with a van on the back) to avoid three cars piroeting as a fourth car cut across from the right hand lane so as not to miss his exit, if id been doing 70 I hate to think of how it would have ended up. Sorry to drive at speed of 70 and + are crazy. Not to say a total disregard for other peoples saifty, you cant antisipate what the nob eliment are going to do infront of you.

Sorry if it offends but thats my opinion

illy
well here go`s nowt ,,but after 25 years of been on the roads with a 44 tonner mate iv seen just about every kind of crash and the biggest one to date is people driving to slow and people ramming up there rear end .. think this is a case of why most car drivers hate caravans going far to slow ,, if people are to fightned to drive at 60/70 with a caravan on a 4x4 or a car well with in the same weight as there caravan , stop towing a caravan , or get a car that is twice the weight of the caravan . dont get a 2 ton caravan and think a ton of car to going to be ok to tow it ,, thats were things go wrong as for disregards for other road use this why i drive with the flow of the traffic so am not the one who get the one finger wave :thumbs
no offend taken bazza
 
well here go`s nowt ,,but after 25 years of been on the roads with a 44 tonner mate iv seen just about every kind of crash and the biggest one to date is people driving to slow and people ramming up there rear end .. think this is a case of why most car drivers hate caravans going far to slow ,, if people are to fightned to drive at 60/70 with a caravan on a 4x4 or a car well with in the same weight as there caravan , stop towing a caravan , or get a car that is twice the weight of the caravan . dont get a 2 ton caravan and think a ton of car to going to be ok to tow it ,, thats were things go wrong as for disregards for other road use this why i drive with the flow of the traffic so am not the one who get the one finger wave :thumbs
no offend taken bazza

No offence, but aren't quite a few accidents on the motorways caused by the drivers of 44 tonners, as you put it, straying into the hard shoulder, whilst they roll a fag, send a text or make a cup of tea etc etc. Sorry for the generalisation, but all drivers liesure and proffesional, become complacent and overconfident once they start to rely on safety equipment and/or their own sense of experience.

Alan
 
No offence, but aren't quite a few accidents on the motorways caused by the drivers of 44 tonners, as you put it, straying into the hard shoulder, whilst they roll a fag, send a text or make a cup of tea etc etc. Sorry for the generalisation, but all drivers liesure and proffesional, become complacent and overconfident once they start to rely on safety equipment and/or their own sense of experience.

Alan
yer very very ture mate ,, but them day of been a 44 tonner are over as health problems ,, force me to give my hgv up , i could of said nothing about it and carried on driving a time bomb , but i did put other road users first ,, and handed it back as for one i couldnt of lived with my self if i hurt/ killed any one , ,, just think of how many people out there dont say nothing to the dvla about change in there health
 
And this one was a twin axle caravan as well ! :eek:

ahhh but we dont know the reason behind the smash.

people do the strangest things. friend of mine in blissful ignorance stored the full size awning under the fixed bed in the back of their senator. just didnt know better.

They do know after 30+kg of load in the wrong place wrote the car of and severely damaged the van!!

On a more general note and contrary to popular belief blow outs on cars and caravans are extremely rare. What usually happens is a a puncture occurs and the still rotating tyre cant handle the forces of sudden deflation so it disintegrates. Completely different to a blow out.

Competent drivers and good electronics can sometimes deal with the onset.
 
As many of you know, I do a fair bit of caravan towing, which as some have pointed out is very different to towing any other kind of trailer. I have yet to test this new electronic stability stuff Dave is experienced in - but it does sound good, as opposed to the ALKO stabiliser hitch which is - pants!

My advice, is drive at a speed to suit the combination of towing vehicle /caravan and the road / weather /traffic conditions. But don't sacrifice safety for speed.

loading the caravan correctly has to be the number 1 thing for safe towing, all weight low and toward the front. Use the max nose weight to the max!

I have also had a tyre blow out, quite literally, the side wall exploded, because it had the wrong load rating :doh It was on a very large twin axle caravan (2800k plus) and forget the old wives tales about carrying on with a flat tyre on a twin axle it's nonsense - the back corner hit the road with a bang!

I do think, as others have pointed out, that too many 'safety' gadgets can lead people into a false sense of security! And carrying too much gear around with you is asking for incorrect loading trouble!
 
well have towed at an indicated 65 or what ever felt right, tend to judge this
by the rev counter and the feel of the outfit.

now i'm thinking that the caravan is the most precious thing after my family
and hey whats the rush, slowing to indicated mid 50s, might just save some
fuel and certainly wear n tear on the old tin tent. after all its not a race
and been proven that dropping few mile per hours, only lengthens journey
by a few minutes.

load propery , max out the nose weight, bin the stabilizer, learn to drive
and sense whats good for the rig. read road, try IAM / road craft advise.

observation is everything, try a running commentry as I did on my IAM car
test back in 1987 at 20 years old. does pay, still got clean licence...
 
well have towed at an indicated 65 or what ever felt right, tend to judge this
by the rev counter and the feel of the outfit.

now i'm thinking that the caravan is the most precious thing after my family
and hey whats the rush, slowing to indicated mid 50s, might just save some
fuel and certainly wear n tear on the old tin tent. after all its not a race
and been proven that dropping few mile per hours, only lengthens journey
by a few minutes.

load propery , max out the nose weight, bin the stabilizer, learn to drive
and sense whats good for the rig. read road, try IAM / road craft advise.

observation is everything, try a running commentry as I did on my IAM car
test back in 1987 at 20 years old. does pay, still got clean licence...


Totally agree, what the hell are we all rushing around for? cept when racing but that is off road and a different story altogether, and yes we do caravan demolition derbys, Rick
 
Totally agree, what the hell are we all rushing around for? cept when racing but that is off road and a different story altogether, and yes we do caravan demolition derbys, Rick


where are the pics!
 
I have also had a tyre blow out, quite literally, the side wall exploded, because it had the wrong load rating :doh It was on a very large twin axle caravan (2800k plus) and forget the old wives tales about carrying on with a flat tyre on a twin axle it's nonsense - the back corner hit the road with a bang!

I'd never actually heard the story of "carrying on" but as you say, i tend to think it is bollocks but what i will say (based on a twin axle car transporter getting a puncture and the tyre ripping off) i di mange to control it. Lots of wobble and a bit of a sweat on but having some rubber still on the road on one side has to be better than just a metal rim :thumb2


what the hell are we all rushing around for?

Because we all have occasions where circumstances take over our destiny.

When we headed to the IOW 2 weeks ago I planned the tow to the ferry with breaks calculated in, I knew where all the planned roadworks were and then i added on 2 1/2 hrs just in case.

Due the the handywork of a complete dick who fitted the tow electric socket to my new car we had failure of said tow electrics. First the ns indicator on the van failed then the right.

Cut a long story short we ended up at woodall services ,with no tools multimeter or wiring diagram, for just over two hours whilst an auto electrician came out and fixed it for us (he described the work done as a f###ing abortion and ended up rewiring it so even if id had full kit with me id have been there as long doing the job!) .

We then got caught up in extraordinarily heavy traffic.

So with no extra capacity on later ferries or probably none the next day we had to try and make ours original which we did with exactly 8 minutes to spare.

Car and van well capable of an indicated 65mph and managed to get a full week on the IOW instead of 5 days.

Thats why we rushed on that occasion :thumb2 well worth every minute of uber concentration and cost of fuel.
 
I'd never actually heard the story of "carrying on"

If I had a blow out or puncture on my twin axle boat trailer, I would "Carry on" onto the hard shoulder or maybe the next junction at low speed if close enough.
I would then change the wheel.

My trailer can gross at well over 2800kg, so I only use 60% of it's capacity.
Yes the other wheel would be overloaded, but I would want to get off the motorway as soon as possible to protect the family...... the boat and the car.


How many of us actually carry a spare wheel, correctly inflated.....? :doh
I don't mean these tin cans either, if you get a flat on a caravan, you have probably wrecked it anyway by the time you find a safe haven.
 
me for one i dont check the car spare tyre/ or the caravan spare wheel but i do carry a tyre pump:augie :doh getting back to this towing speed and this 70 mph ,, as we all know the speedo in the terrano is 6/7 mph out any way so 70 is 63/64 so do we all drive at 78 to do 70 think not ,, just because it says 70 your not doing 70 :naughty
 
me for one i dont check the car spare tyre/ or the caravan spare wheel but i do carry a tyre pump:augie :doh getting back to this towing speed and this 70 mph ,, as we all know the speedo in the terrano is 6/7 mph out any way so 70 is 63/64 so do we all drive at 78 to do 70 think not ,, just because it says 70 your not doing 70 :naughty

It's so easy to check your speed now with Sat Nav, then you can "Calibrate" your speedo easily.

When I say Calibrate, I don't mean adjust it.

You can have a Table
Indicated Speed ..... Actual Speed
30................................28
40................................37
50................................etc
60
70
80

This MUST be done if you change tyre size etc.

I up-graded my Mav to the later size tyres 235 75 R15 and now the Speedo is correct at 70 mph, and isn't more than 1-2 mph out elsewhere.

Simple enough to do.

However I do get frustrated when I am following cars through speed cameras, when they slow down to 35 when passing a speed camera set to 40mph. :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
your lucky then cos mine is out by 6mph and thats with a sat nav and a speed sensor no matter who,s i use it 6 mph diffrents with the dash :( but like i say i can do 76 with sat nav and dash reads 70
 
If I had a blow out or puncture on my twin axle boat trailer, I would "Carry on" onto the hard shoulder or maybe the next junction at low speed if close enough.
I would then change the wheel.

My trailer can gross at well over 2800kg, so I only use 60% of it's capacity.
Yes the other wheel would be overloaded, but I would want to get off the motorway as soon as possible to protect the family...... the boat and the car.


How many of us actually carry a spare wheel, correctly inflated.....? :doh
I don't mean these tin cans either, if you get a flat on a caravan, you have probably wrecked it anyway by the time you find a safe haven.

From my experience of twin axle punctures you might not be able to! don't ban on anything more than stopping safely!
 

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