The great INSURANCE CON

[Kamsin]

OK, bear with me, this maybe a little long winded..:augie

We have insurance, because we have to that's the law, but are the insurance playing fair. I think we need to make some noise and get this looked into, iv been complaining to friends about it for ages, so I'm going to voice it on here.

You have an accident with your car, the insurance man says "We need to collect the vehicle to have it assessed" your car is taken away and that's the last you see of it for a while.

Now 1 of 2 things is about to happen, first you get a phone call "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is being repaired and will be returned to you in a couple of days" or secondly "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is uneconomical to repair, so we have written it off, were going to give you x amount of pounds for it, thank you and have a nice day"

Right, as soon as the repair value goes above 80% of the value of the car, they wont repair it, no matter what you say to them. The next thing is they will want the log book for the car as well or they will refuse to pay out. So in fact they are forcing you to sell your car to them for a price THEY feel is exceptable.

Now if your cars damage to 79% of the value of the car they will repair it and give it you back, but 80% they keep it and give you some cash, WHY? Why shouldn't i still get the car back?

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i pay a premium for the cover on my car, so if its in an accident i can have it fixed. Where did i sign to say i will pay a premium for the cover and give you my car if they feel its to much to fix. I may fix it myself and cut out the labor costs.

This is the biggest con going and we go along with it. They get to buy your car from you without even asking. You have already paid for the cover why should they get the car as well. If its that bad you should get the car back and the cash, its just the same as getting the car back if its repaired.

Do you follow what I'm saying here?

Another con i found this week, (And i fell for it, as i did not work it out till it was too late) is after its been assessed and they feel its not going to be fixed they will send it to a salvage yard for storage till the claim is paid, WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. Now i wanted the car returned and was told "Yes that's fine, you will need to pay £80 to collect it and then get it home" WHY? i never told you to send it there to start with and i have not given you the car, you were only assessing it. Why was it not returned to me. Because this way they know you wont bother to go and get it and you will let them keep it, this way they sell it for salvage and get even more of your money.

What should of happened, but i did not think about it at the time was, i should of said, "No, you return it or I'm calling the police and reporting it stolen" now i know someone that did that and got his car returned, this is the reason i know about this bit now, after a conversation i had last week.

The car being claimed for was an 03 plate Nissan Terrano LWB, they offed me £2,500 but i got them to £2,700 after an argument. I asked how they came to the value and was told its an assessed value of what they THINK the market price would be, not what it would cost to replace it. There were no 03 plates anywhere to be found for that price but they did not care.

WE ARE BEING CONNED and they are getting away with it. They say how much we have to pay, they say how much they will give us if we claim and they say if your going to be forced to sell them your car. To me the car had loads of part on i could use but i lost the lot.

Just think about it, if your house insurance pays for a new roof, do they own the new roof or do you? Do they ask for the old roof back (Old roof slate is very expensive) No, because you paid a premium for the insurance, not a premium plus the roof.

I have checked out as much of the legal side as i can find, and they have no claim to your car as far as i can see. I have heard of someone going to court with the same thing and getting a settlement outside of the court and his car back, but its secondhand information that i can not prove right now.

Your thoughts.

 

[cncfabs]

OK, bear with me, this maybe a little long winded..:augie

We have insurance, because we have to that's the law, but are the insurance playing fair. I think we need to make some noise and get this looked into, iv been complaining to friends about it for ages, so I'm going to voice it on here.

You have an accident with your car, the insurance man says "We need to collect the vehicle to have it assessed" your car is taken away and that's the last you see of it for a while.

Now 1 of 2 things is about to happen, first you get a phone call "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is being repaired and will be returned to you in a couple of days" or secondly "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is uneconomical to repair, so we have written it off, were going to give you x amount of pounds for it, thank you and have a nice day"

Right, as soon as the repair value goes above 80% of the value of the car, they wont repair it, no matter what you say to them. The next thing is they will want the log book for the car as well or they will refuse to pay out. So in fact they are forcing you to sell your car to them for a price THEY feel is exceptable.

Now if your cars damage to 79% of the value of the car they will repair it and give it you back, but 80% they keep it and give you some cash, WHY? Why shouldn't i still get the car back?

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i pay a premium for the cover on my car, so if its in an accident i can have it fixed. Where did i sign to say i will pay a premium for the cover and give you my car if they feel its to much to fix. I may fix it myself and cut out the labor costs.

This is the biggest con going and we go along with it. They get to buy your car from you without even asking. You have already paid for the cover why should they get the car as well. If its that bad you should get the car back and the cash, its just the same as getting the car back if its repaired.

Do you follow what I'm saying here?

Another con i found this week, (And i fell for it, as i did not work it out till it was too late) is after its been assessed and they feel its not going to be fixed they will send it to a salvage yard for storage till the claim is paid, WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. Now i wanted the car returned and was told "Yes that's fine, you will need to pay £80 to collect it and then get it home" WHY? i never told you to send it there to start with and i have not given you the car, you were only assessing it. Why was it not returned to me. Because this way they know you wont bother to go and get it and you will let them keep it, this way they sell it for salvage and get even more of your money.

What should of happened, but i did not think about it at the time was, i should of said, "No, you return it or I'm calling the police and reporting it stolen" now i know someone that did that and got his car returned, this is the reason i know about this bit now, after a conversation i had last week.

The car being claimed for was an 03 plate Nissan Terrano LWB, they offed me £2,500 but i got them to £2,700 after an argument. I asked how they came to the value and was told its an assessed value of what they THINK the market price would be, not what it would cost to replace it. There were no 03 plates anywhere to be found for that price but they did not care.

WE ARE BEING CONNED and they are getting away with it. They say how much we have to pay, they say how much they will give us if we claim and they say if your going to be forced to sell them your car. To me the car had loads of part on i could use but i lost the lot.

Just think about it, if your house insurance pays for a new roof, do they own the new roof or do you? Do they ask for the old roof back (Old roof slate is very expensive) No, because you paid a premium for the insurance, not a premium plus the roof.

I have checked out as much of the legal side as i can find, and they have no claim to your car as far as i can see. I have heard of someone going to court with the same thing and getting a settlement outside of the court and his car back, but its secondhand information that i can not prove right now.

Your thoughts.

Over the years ive had 2 cars involved in accidents neither were my fault but on both occasions the car was never taken away and i was the one who said where the vehicle was repaired.On both occasions the assesser came to me i took it for quotes and they paid the bill.Who was the insurance company that did this to you.

 

[melissachels]

OK, bear with me, this maybe a little long winded..:augie

We have insurance, because we have to that's the law, but are the insurance playing fair. I think we need to make some noise and get this looked into, iv been complaining to friends about it for ages, so I'm going to voice it on here.

You have an accident with your car, the insurance man says "We need to collect the vehicle to have it assessed" your car is taken away and that's the last you see of it for a while.

Now 1 of 2 things is about to happen, first you get a phone call "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is being repaired and will be returned to you in a couple of days" or secondly "Hello Mr ....... This is the insurance company, your car is uneconomical to repair, so we have written it off, were going to give you x amount of pounds for it, thank you and have a nice day"

Right, as soon as the repair value goes above 80% of the value of the car, they wont repair it, no matter what you say to them. The next thing is they will want the log book for the car as well or they will refuse to pay out. So in fact they are forcing you to sell your car to them for a price THEY feel is exceptable.

Now if your cars damage to 79% of the value of the car they will repair it and give it you back, but 80% they keep it and give you some cash, WHY? Why shouldn't i still get the car back?

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but i pay a premium for the cover on my car, so if its in an accident i can have it fixed. Where did i sign to say i will pay a premium for the cover and give you my car if they feel its to much to fix. I may fix it myself and cut out the labor costs.

This is the biggest con going and we go along with it. They get to buy your car from you without even asking. You have already paid for the cover why should they get the car as well. If its that bad you should get the car back and the cash, its just the same as getting the car back if its repaired.

Do you follow what I'm saying here?

Another con i found this week, (And i fell for it, as i did not work it out till it was too late) is after its been assessed and they feel its not going to be fixed they will send it to a salvage yard for storage till the claim is paid, WITHOUT YOUR CONSENT. Now i wanted the car returned and was told "Yes that's fine, you will need to pay £80 to collect it and then get it home" WHY? i never told you to send it there to start with and i have not given you the car, you were only assessing it. Why was it not returned to me. Because this way they know you wont bother to go and get it and you will let them keep it, this way they sell it for salvage and get even more of your money.

What should of happened, but i did not think about it at the time was, i should of said, "No, you return it or I'm calling the police and reporting it stolen" now i know someone that did that and got his car returned, this is the reason i know about this bit now, after a conversation i had last week.

The car being claimed for was an 03 plate Nissan Terrano LWB, they offed me £2,500 but i got them to £2,700 after an argument. I asked how they came to the value and was told its an assessed value of what they THINK the market price would be, not what it would cost to replace it. There were no 03 plates anywhere to be found for that price but they did not care.

WE ARE BEING CONNED and they are getting away with it. They say how much we have to pay, they say how much they will give us if we claim and they say if your going to be forced to sell them your car. To me the car had loads of part on i could use but i lost the lot.

Just think about it, if your house insurance pays for a new roof, do they own the new roof or do you? Do they ask for the old roof back (Old roof slate is very expensive) No, because you paid a premium for the insurance, not a premium plus the roof.

I have checked out as much of the legal side as i can find, and they have no claim to your car as far as i can see. I have heard of someone going to court with the same thing and getting a settlement outside of the court and his car back, but its secondhand information that i can not prove right now.

Your thoughts.

i'm sure that depending on which class it was written off withg you can take the settlement figure and buy your car back for little cost. or just don't bother saying in the 1st place n fix it youself? but the bit about it being in a salvage yard is just chancing they're luck as they know most people don't bother.
I had the same with my vectra it got stolen & got no payout because according to them my excess was higher than the vehicle value (£250), plus i was to pay the rest of the premuim for a car i no longer had nor did they settle with me so i told them to shove it! i had only paid £120 to them for the premuim

 

[arcascomp]

They are definitely at it, but then sadly so are too many of their claimants trying to get funding for a sudden sore neck, etc..

I'm in the middle of sorting out a claim via Admiral and strangely if I don't bother to claim for damage to our car, I don't need to pay the excess on the claim for the third party. Odd, but our bumper wasn't looking too pretty before anyway.

Admiral have approved repairers who I can take my car to and they will handle the repairs from there and I would pay them the excess, or I can get quotes from two different garages that I would prefer to fix my car.

I've had a motorbike 'technically written off' before because it would have cost almost as much to repair as it was worth, but would have ended up being worth more after the repairs which the insurance companies can't handle. Instead I kept the motorbike and received about 90% of it's value to pay for DIY patching up. I know that the industry uses a standard pricing guide for vehicle values, similar to what garages use to work out trade ins, and their repair costs are also based on a standard computer system for pricing.

So I guess it depends on who you're covered with as to how sharp they are when it comes to a claim, I'd like to see them more controlled, but also get rid of ambulance chasing lawyers who cost us all money in the long run.

I think you can also get policies where you and the insurer agree on the value of the vehicle up front so there can be no argument, bet the premium is painful on those though.

When is my T2 old enough to get classic car insurance?!?

 

[dollywobbler]

They will demand that the car is taken to an assessor but I've demanded that the car goes to my house and the assessor comes there. It was a non-fault accident in my case so I called the shots.

It certainly seems that insurance is a great way to make money for insurance companies, bodyshops and recovery agents with storage space. Oh, and hire cars. Want to hire a car? It'll be about three times the price if you do it via the insurance. Scam central.

 

[Kamsin]

Over the years ive had 2 cars involved in accidents neither were my fault but on both occasions the car was never taken away and i was the one who said where the vehicle was repaired.On both occasions the assesser came to me i took it for quotes and they paid the bill.Who was the insurance company that did this to you.

This one I'm not sure on, as its a claim I'm sorting out for my niece. This is why i took over, cos they were running rings round her and scamming her left, right and center. They only offered her £2500 and then deducted £300 excess.

The last one that did it to me was ONE BIKE insurance. They took my bike and refused to let me have it back stating "We don't return bikes as its to risky" It was a limited edition white Hyabusa, i begged them to let me have it back and id have it repaired myself. NO. they took it. It had 1800 miles on the clock and was 16 months old, Paid out £8500 cost to replace £10,000 Chance of getting another limited edition 0.

 

[cncfabs]

This one I'm not sure on, as its a claim I'm sorting out for my niece. This is why i took over, cos they were running rings round her and scamming her left, right and center. They only offered her £2500 and then deducted £300 excess.

The last one that did it to me was ONE BIKE insurance. They took my bike and refused to let me have it back stating "We don't return bikes as its to risky" It was a limited edition white Hyabusa, i begged them to let me have it back and id have it repaired myself. NO. they took it. It had 1800 miles on the clock and was 16 months old, Paid out £8500 cost to replace £10,000 Chance of getting another limited edition 0.

Easy to say now but i wouldnt have let them take it.How legally can they refuse to return it to you it wouldnt be their property until the claim had been settled.

 

[RJL Services]

hi i was a mechanic by trade until i becombe disabled but the first thing is never get your car recovered to a garage i always have it taken to my home that way i can control what happens to it i have had 2 peugeot 406 classed at cat c write off and a nissan serena all of them i repaired and repainted myself when i had the workshop to do it in sadley i have to do it at home now weather permitting and due to my disabilty jobs take a lot longer now but i was only ever charged what they classed as salvage price never paid over £400 to keep it i have a peugeot 406 on a o3 plate thats been classed as a uneconmical repair the first time i got £5000 and kept the car second time £2500 kept the car had it 8 years now still looks like new was used as a taxi until 3 years ago has 359000miles on it and drives like a new car never allow them to bully you into anything tell them you will think about it and i never take there first offer i had a 1995 modeo that was written off by a landrover in a lane near me the landy was going to fast rolled in on the bend at top off hill and took out my wife and the mondeo had tyre marks all down drivers side at roof level and a nice one on the hatch back i new it was not worth repairing so i took off all the new bits like starter and altenator and battery they inspected it and offered me £300.00 minus excess of £200 i argued and ended up with £950 for it what i do is stay in control and have the vehicle at your home then you can control what happens

 

[Kamsin]

Easy to say now but i wouldnt have let them take it.How legally can they refuse to return it to you it wouldnt be their property until the claim had been settled.

They used the quote "Before we can settle" in the phone conversation. They bully you in to signing it over. Had it been my own car i would of fought to keep it but my niece just said let them keep it, its not worth the fight.

@rambolane They did offer to sell it back to us.......Hold on its STILL OUR BLOODY CAR. They don't have any right to sell you your car back, its still yours. We pay the premium to be insured. They just want more.

 

[briggie]

one only has to look at the repair they did to my beloved truck sally ( in another thread somewhere ) to see what a con it is

 

[RJL Services]

a very good point but i will remeber that next time when they try and sell it back as salvage thanks
:thumb2

 

[Kamsin]

I would like to be able to make enough noise about it to get everyone to do the same. Post this on all the websites your on and all the fourms. :clap

 

[reetp]

Yes, they are bastards. No two ways about it. Couple of quick points as I don't have much time....

As a consumer, the first problem is most people rarely read the small print of their contract. Big mistake - 'caveat emptor' let the buyer beware. It's your repsonsibility to check it. However, even if you do, you are still likely to get caught.

The biggest leverage they have is if you need the car and don't have alternatives (got car hire cover ??!!!!). Make sure the car gets taken to a place of your choosing if possible to keep it in your control. Assessors will travel.

If the vehicle is taken away somewhere out of your control then put it in writing that you will not accept any storage charges and they are for the insurers account, and ask them to acknowledge the fact.

Remember that any offer of settlement that they make is just that. An OFFER. You do NOT have to accept it.

Next, read here :

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/22/issue-22-motorinsurance.htm

The Ombudsman are pretty good and are well aware of underwriters screwing people for 'market value' (I'm in an argument on this myself at the minute).

The biggest problem is the the time that it all takes, they know this and play on it.

If you are desperate to get the car back then you will have to do the best you can in the time. If not, hold out for whatever you can get, and make them pay properly.

Complain, complain, and complain, but always keep your cool and ALWAYS say you are willing to negotiate - never just say no. If you go to court you can demonstrate that it wasn't you being obstructive

They kind of work on what i call the 90% rule. If they say no, 90% go away the first time. Say no again and you lose another 90%. So of the original 100 complainants, you only have one to deal with. Make it 90% again and it's 1 in a thousand.... you get the picture.

Although no genius in the is area, I used to work in insurance & law years ago so if anyone has any questions I'll try to help.

Just don't let the bastards grind you down.

 

[Kamsin]

Yes, they are bastards. No two ways about it. Couple of quick points as I don't have much time....

As a consumer, the first problem is most people rarely read the small print of their contract. Big mistake - 'caveat emptor' let the buyer beware. It's your repsonsibility to check it. However, even if you do, you are still likely to get caught.

The biggest leverage they have is if you need the car and don't have alternatives (got car hire cover ??!!!!). Make sure the car gets taken to a place of your choosing if possible to keep it in your control. Assessors will travel.

If the vehicle is taken away somewhere out of your control then put it in writing that you will not accept any storage charges and they are for the insurers account, and ask them to acknowledge the fact.

Remember that any offer of settlement that they make is just that. An OFFER. You do NOT have to accept it.

Next, read here :

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/22/issue-22-motorinsurance.htm

The Ombudsman are pretty good and are well aware of underwriters screwing people for 'market value' (I'm in an argument on this myself at the minute).

The biggest problem is the the time that it all takes, they know this and play on it.

If you are desperate to get the car back then you will have to do the best you can in the time. If not, hold out for whatever you can get, and make them pay properly.

Complain, complain, and complain, but always keep your cool and ALWAYS say you are willing to negotiate - never just say no. If you go to court you can demonstrate that it wasn't you being obstructive

They kind of work on what i call the 90% rule. If they say no, 90% go away the first time. Say no again and you lose another 90%. So of the original 100 complainants, you only have one to deal with. Make it 90% again and it's 1 in a thousand.... you get the picture.

Although no genius in the is area, I used to work in insurance & law years ago so if anyone has any questions I'll try to help.

Just don't let the bastards grind you down.

A great post Reept. Could i sugest that a moderator picks up on this. I would like some sort of thread that we can use to help people that have to make a claim, offer advice, give explination on whats happend to us and so on. Its because they deal with us as a single person and they have all the experience that they win.

I have found bits out and Reept has offered information, if we all do the same we can start getting the correct cover we paid for. :clap

Maybe we could have a break down of how to claim and how to reply to their questions, as stated above, DONT LET THEM TAKE THE CAR to be assessed, get the assessor to come to you, or insist the car is return to you after the assessment and not to a storage yard.

 

[reetp]

Thanks for the kind comments.

I'm happy to assist if I can.

 

[reetp]

FYI with the claim I just had on my Terrano where my wife had an unscheduled 4x4 experience (!) the underwriters originally offered 1750 less 500 breakers less excess. Although in Spain, the insurance was actually with Lloyds in the UK and was under English law.

They ended up paying me 2000 flat (the car is worth far more here than in the UK - I couldn't get an equivalent for under about EUR 3000!). I wasn't bothered about it being like new - it is 17 years old - so I was realistic in my expectations. Had the car repaired with second hand bits and bobs and all is pretty again. Even got an extra 'new' wing in with it.

I had to fight and argue, but kept my cool.

I had the benefit of a second car and told them I was in no rush for mine back and would argue them to the hell and back if I had to.

Answer is don't let them bully you. Be polite ALL the time, but firm. Be prepared to compromise, but that doesn't mean you have to give in.....

 

[melissachels]

I heard they're now trying to MAKE you send your car way & not giving you it back feck that cos I know I can fix my car cheaper then they can no matter how much damage was done & I'd quite happily take it to vosa for inspection. 3rd party fire & theft is great tho cos they're not interested in your car.

 

[magsleon]

Some time ago we had a lovely BMW 520 which got wrote off we were lucky in the fact Maggie worked in the motor business at the time and the car had been recovered back to a compound there. A figure had been agreed for the car and we were waiting for the insurance to come and collect it, meanwhile some friends called in from a BMW club and asked about how the car was doing and was told it was written off. they asked if they could see it and couldn't believe it had been pointed toward the scrap yard, they told us to buy back the car from the insurance and they would fix it. We got the car back for next to nothing and the lads took it away. When it came back it was just like new and they only charged us for parts and everything else was good will. So thats another option people might have,to buy back off the insurance and get it fixed under their own steam.

 

[Banshee]

I've just read through this an it concerned me if I'm honest so I rang up my insurance company (Adrian Flux)

They have told me that if the car is CAT A or B I will not get the car back at all and it will be scrapped outright by law however, CAT C & D as long as when you make the claim if I was to specify that I wanted to keep the vehicle I would be offered either the value of the car before the accident or I will be offered the opportunity to buy it back at the scrap value that is determined by the assesor

I hope this is helpful

 

[jims-terrano]

Interesting timing as I'm just waiting to hear from our insurance company. Don't really fancy buying it back tho but I can see a nice battle taking place.