Terrano 2, 2.4 petrol conversion to 2.7 diesel

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B

Banksy

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Hi Guys

I have a T2 1997 2.4 petrol which i want conveted to a 2.7 diesel.
the reason I wish to do this is that the T2 cosmetically is really good inside and out. But unfortunately the petrol engine is shot, with low compression which caused it to struggle through its last MOT on emissions.

So I thought well if it needs changing why not go for the 2.7 diesel engine as the reports are good.

Now the question: can it be done, is it worth doing and how much would it cost, say to get a good second hand engine out of one being scrapped and to have it fitted. And finally does anyone Know anyone who does this sort of convertion. I am only looking for approximate costs

I lookforward to your guidance and advice.

Thanks
Banksy:thumb2
 
Why go deisel?

I'd go for a replacement Petrol and Gas it

Cheaper to run, quiet, smooth and it brings a new meaning to the phrase 'Gas Guzzler' :D

But thats just my Op

Converted many petrols to Diesels in the past but nothing that modern if you are hell bent on going down that route I would look for a complete doner car and make a good one outa the 2 bassed on the diesel
 
Thanks

Thanks Vatco:clap

All advice welcome - I had not even thought about a gas convertion!
I still really fancy diesel, maybe bio fuel

thanks again

Banksy
 
Hmmm

There are mostly 2 camps for reasons to run on either BD or LPG

1) Strain on the wallet
2) The desire to be green

If the first is the case there is little argument and LPG will win I recon

The second (which is the reason most folk seen to give) is more complex

LPG - Takes little energy to produce but to process it for use (I.E. cool it and compress it into bottles) has a high energy cost. Fact is the greenhouse effect to produce LPg or Petrol is much the same. Using LPG in vehicles, the emmisions are much the same as well. Only real advantage is the lack of unburnt fuel pumped out the exhaust.


BD - If we used waste veg oil then it would seem that the energy cost is zero because it is a waste product and, therefore, costs nothing to produce at that stage. However the reasoning behind this argument is flawed but we won't go into that here.

If companies where to use waste vegi oil to produce BD then there may be a sound enviromental argument. But, the fact is they don't. Most use imported Palm oil, cropped in Malaysia or other places were it is planted after clearing the rainforest. I am sure I dont need to state the effect of this on our inviroment.

Me? I would like to be greener but only if it is practicle and has real value. So in this instance I go with the cost in my back pocket.

An Lpg vehicle is less damaging on the enviroment. It burns cleaner and more efficiently, Servicing periods are extended so less waste here and engines seem to last longer and so on. So I can be that little bit greener and have more cash to spend on other thngs which helps the ecconomy and makes me feel better to boot.

I only run a huge furby because I need to. Our other daily driver does 60mpg can only carry 2 people plus shoping (there is only 2 of us now) and I would convert that to LPG as well if there was room in it for the fuel cell :lol
It is also a recycled car (pre owned I believe is the modern term) and so I am re-using something that has already been produced.
(don't start me on the scrapage system-------No one would be able to find me a big enough soap box :lol )
 
Vatco- thanks for your very detailed reply.

I must be honest it is cost which is the driving factor in my case. I like you require a 4X4 for work purposes and also care about the enviroment, so am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I think the option I will go for is the convertion from petrol to diesel and would still welcome advice as per my original post from you guys out there.

Vatco - thanks for the points you raised which has still let me podering.

Banksy
 
Hmmm

There are mostly 2 camps for reasons to run on either BD or LPG

1) Strain on the wallet
2) The desire to be green

If the first is the case there is little argument and LPG will win I recon

The second (which is the reason most folk seen to give) is more complex

LPG - Takes little energy to produce but to process it for use (I.E. cool it and compress it into bottles) has a high energy cost. Fact is the greenhouse effect to produce LPg or Petrol is much the same. Using LPG in vehicles, the emmisions are much the same as well. Only real advantage is the lack of unburnt fuel pumped out the exhaust.


BD - If we used waste veg oil then it would seem that the energy cost is zero because it is a waste product and, therefore, costs nothing to produce at that stage. However the reasoning behind this argument is flawed but we won't go into that here.

If companies where to use waste vegi oil to produce BD then there may be a sound enviromental argument. But, the fact is they don't. Most use imported Palm oil, cropped in Malaysia or other places were it is planted after clearing the rainforest. I am sure I dont need to state the effect of this on our inviroment.

Me? I would like to be greener but only if it is practicle and has real value. So in this instance I go with the cost in my back pocket.

An Lpg vehicle is less damaging on the enviroment. It burns cleaner and more efficiently, Servicing periods are extended so less waste here and engines seem to last longer and so on. So I can be that little bit greener and have more cash to spend on other thngs which helps the ecconomy and makes me feel better to boot.

I only run a huge furby because I need to. Our other daily driver does 60mpg can only carry 2 people plus shoping (there is only 2 of us now) and I would convert that to LPG as well if there was room in it for the fuel cell :lol
It is also a recycled car (pre owned I believe is the modern term) and so I am re-using something that has already been produced.
(don't start me on the scrapage system-------No one would be able to find me a big enough soap box :lol )

Theres always SVO though, rape seed oil or in my case sunflower oil produced in Europe in fields already used for such crops.....and these trucks will run a very high proportion without modification. I typically use 50/50 SVO/diesel and a bit less in winter.
 
I'm no expert, but I reckon converting a Terrano from petrol to diesel could be a major undertaking and the cost of doing so would hugely outweigh the benefits.

I personally think you would be better off going for a reconditioned short motor, which would negate the need to modify any of the electrics and/or possibly gearing etc.

Needless to say I am only a Saturday morning mechanic and you may have a lot of experience in taking on such projects.

If you do start it there are a lot of people here who will help you with some great advice though.

Good Luck

Alan
 
Theres always SVO though, rape seed oil or in my case sunflower oil produced in Europe in fields already used for such crops.....and these trucks will run a very high proportion without modification. I typically use 50/50 SVO/diesel and a bit less in winter.

Personally dont like the uncertainties of running SVO mix in unmoded engines but there are 2 schools of thought on this, It is possible that niether is correct.
However, if you are running SVO have you considered getting a small plant and making your own BIO from SVO.

This is something that I have investigated and am considering as I have 2 diesel trucks (a 5 tonner and a 7.5 tonner) A good plant that works and produces proper diesel fuel comes in at around £1000 including all the stuff like methonol needed dryers etc. You can get cheaper ones but they are often badly produced and have a tendancy to self ignite :eek:
 
My turn.............:rolleyes:
The most cost effective fix will be to rebuild/replace the petrol engine,then gas it, fact.:thumbs
It's a project one could do simply as it's just a nuts n bolts job:thumbs
The diesel change over would be a pain I guess mainly because of all the ancilary changes reqd, like exhaust, electrics etc. AND diesel engines fetch good money too:eek:
On the bio front I've been lucky so far from what you guys say:augie I'm on near enough NEAT bio from some bloke who makes it including some kero and some chemical trickery. It's good for -30 :eek: and at 56p a litre I luv it:D
 
Personally dont like the uncertainties of running SVO mix in unmoded engines but there are 2 schools of thought on this, It is possible that niether is correct.
However, if you are running SVO have you considered getting a small plant and making your own BIO from SVO.

This is something that I have investigated and am considering as I have 2 diesel trucks (a 5 tonner and a 7.5 tonner) A good plant that works and produces proper diesel fuel comes in at around £1000 including all the stuff like methonol needed dryers etc. You can get cheaper ones but they are often badly produced and have a tendancy to self ignite :eek:

Just for info, these trucks are one of a fairly small range that can use SVO with no mods, its old diesel technology with a Bosch fuel pump thats the best one for the job....theres a lot of SVO usage history across the site with no issues.
 
just to add to the LPG environmetal benefits, it is also a sealed fuel sytem and so causes no polution via evaporation etc when standing, as diesel and petrol cars polute to a small extent even when parked!

You may also find a used petrol engine cheaper, or even a whole used petrol t2 will be cheaper than a good diesle engine, but i am prepared for arguments :thumbs
 
might be selling my 2.4 1996 terrano in the near future.
so there might be an option there for you.
 
Thank you to you all for your advice.

Well it looks like I will be going for a good 2nd hand or recon engine (petrol) and gas.

Does anyone know anybody who undertakes such work and rough costings?

Thanks

Banksy
 
Just for info, these trucks are one of a fairly small range that can use SVO with no mods, its old diesel technology with a Bosch fuel pump thats the best one for the job....theres a lot of SVO usage history across the site with no issues.

I am aware of this. And I know that a lot of folk use unmodified SVO either as a mix or straight with no probs. I just don't like it and I have good reason not to.

Years ago I used to run old diesel engines (Sims and CAV systems) on recycled oil from transformers mixed with petrol. They ran fine for a while. We where doing high mileage mind. But after a while we started to get trouble with pumps and injectors and eventually had a couple of engines need overhauls and where not impressed with the mess.

One of the biggest problems was the unburnt part of the fuel clogging things up and the extra acid in the fuel causing damage to the pistons liners and valves. We also noticed that the engine oil suffered.
We learned in short order that particulate filters where not doing their job on the rubbish in the oil. Most standard particulate filters are between 5 and 10 microns which is enough to take out solids but even a 2 micron will not take out other impurities. What we didn't realise was that all that gunk was accumulating around valve stems, rings etc. causing even more damage

We are talking 25 - 30 years ago so things have moved on since then but once bitten twice shy etc.

However if you use waste then avoid Chinese take away. There is far too much MSD in the oil and it is hard to remove.

Mixing SVO with kerosene, petrol, diesel or white spirit only improves the viscosity to make it pass through the pump, injectors etc. It does not improve the quality of the fuel nor does it remove the impurities in the oil.

Furthermore, unless the fuel is heated when mixing a complete mix cannot be attained.

If anyone has a diesel Space heater then run it for a while on SVO mix ---- its ok it won’t hurt it.
Drip feed type onto a plate is best for this demo but those 'rocket' shaped ones will do it as well.
At the end of the cold spell take the burner apart and take a look at it. If it is a drip feed heater onto a plate you will find a lot of crystalline substance on the plate and the end of the feed nozzle will look burned and corroded.
If it is a force fed you will see the same but to a lesser degree as it blows most of the waste out right at you. But the injector nozzle and the spark unit will be quite badly burnt and corroded.

This is similar to the damage you could find in your cylinders and around your valves.

On the diesels we used to run we found that things got really bad after about 60k now, as I have already said, more modern engines may be able to handle it better. But I for one would not risk it again

I think a proper plant designed to blend certain chemicals to 'clean' the oil, wash it, dry it etc is much better. The end result is a proper fuel that ANY diesel engine can use efficiently, burns cleaner, gives less wear, etc, etc, At a cost of about 55p per ltr for unused SVO base and anything as low as 22p per ltr if you can get enough used SVO to convert.
And these are real figures including usage of elec to run the pumps, dryers etc
Plants are small enough that you can have one at your house in a shed or the garage and the gov even allows you to make 2000 ltrs AT EACH SITE (2009 but it was up for discus and I haven't checked if it changed) without having to pay tax on the fuel you produce (big of them :kissy)

And before someone says it I don't sell Bio and I don't sell plants either :D
It is just a subject that is close to my heart, very interesting and I have done a lot of research on as well as had expierience of.
 
Good points, but hardly surprised you had problems with a mix of old oil and petrol you cheapskate LOL!! :):) Mind you some of those old diesels would run on any old crap in an emergency wouldn't they.

I would NEVER put chip shop crap in the tank, not even if it was filtered and boiled to dehumidify it - the stuff I use is brand new, pure, filtered sunflower oil with not an impurity or particle in sight. It runs even better on a 50/50 mix of that than on straight diesel. Never had problems with the filters either, and I usually overrun mileage between changes....there are plenty of others who have

And 150ml of acetone in the tank is the icing on the cake.:thumb2
 
Good points, but hardly surprised you had problems with a mix of old oil and petrol you cheapskate LOL!! :):) Mind you some of those old diesels would run on any old crap in an emergency wouldn't they.
:lol
Not a bit of it Transformer oil is a mineral oil - a by product of making petrol. Compaired to sunflower oil it is sqeaky clean. And when it comes outa the transformers it is still clean but with a much better viscosity.

The main problems are caused by contaminates that you can't see.
Sunflower oil is very high in fatty acids ------ Not good for an engine and will not filter out using standard fillters.

Quote taken from a paper on the subject writen by Rewolinski (union Oil Company) and Shaffer (Chem Eng. Div. Montana State University)

Unsaturated seed oils undergo additional polymerization and acid forming oxidation reactions at conditions present in a diesel crankcase enviroment leading to thickening and loss of alkaline reserve in lubricarion oil"
Blah, Blah, Blah and go on to say
the thickening and alkalinity losses pose definate distribution and possible corrosion problems for a diesel engine in extended operation on sunflower fuel. After only 30 hours exposure to a simulated crankcase enviroment viscosity is increasing sharply and alkaline reserve is largely exhausted

Here's another test done somewhere else

A nonionic sunflower oil-aqueous ethanol microemulsion was formulated, characterized and evaluated as a fuel in a direct injection, turbocharged, intercooled, 4-cylinder Allis-Chalmers diesel engine during a 200 hr EMA cycle laboratory screening endurance test. Differences in engine operation between a baseline Phillips 2D reference fuel and the experimental fuel were observed. The major problem experienced while operating with the microemulsion was an incomplete combustion process at low-load engine operation. Significant lubricating oil dilution was observed initially, followed by an abnormal increase in the viscosity of the lubricative oil. Heavier carbon residue on the piston lands, in the piston ring grooves and in the intake ports was noted. In addition, premature injection-nozzle deterioration (sticking of the needle) was experienced. At present, the sunflower oil-aqueous ethanol microemulsion studied cannot be recommended for long-term use in a direct-injection diesel engine

There are plenty more.

Don't get me wrong - Diesel extenders are great in many ways but too many folk are under too many illusions of the properties of the new 'wonder fuel'
There are better alternatives. For relitivly low miles then you may well wear out the rest of the car before it becomes troublesome ---------- I don't know. But for high miles it is a serious consideration.
Personally, if I could get decent large comercial petrol engines in ths country I would run all my trucks on LPG. But then again, sooner or later the powers that be will tax the hell outa LPG like they have diesel and petrol so we will end up no better off anyway
 
a 97 2.4 petrol terrano with an engine suffering from low compression is scrap unless you can find another engine and do nearly all of the work yourself.whilst it can still drive trade it in for a subaru forester!
 

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