rear brake getting hot

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John B

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
550
Hi all I've had this problem for a while now and have tried everything as drum only started getting hot after I changed the shoes so the other day I blanked off the hydraulic fluid going to the brake cylinder and took it for a spin and everything was fine drum stayed cold so my question to you is if it was the master cylinder at fault wouldn't both rear drums get hot ?? Is the master cylinder a common fault ?? All I've got left to do is try changing the shoes again but not holding my breath.:(
 
yes that would be about right, both would get hot assuming both are adjusted the same, but it suggests to me you have some debris in the fluid line to that brake, or the cylinder in that one is faulty, to be honest it is wise to change the cylinders on motors of this sort of age, especially when doing new shoes, they are not dear, and remember there are two sizes (around 25 mm) the larger one is for LWB the smaller for the SWB, Rick
 
Back a few months ago I changed the shoes and cylinders and also the brake lines which run along the rear axel into flexy pipe but as soon as I did this the drum has got hot.
I've swapped the drums
New handbrake cable
New springs on shoes
New brake lines back to the abs pump including flexy
Even changed the cylinder even thou it was only a few months old.
This has been going on now for probably a year or so, all I can think of is faulty or warped shoes but that doesn't explain why the drum stays cold when I capped off the hydraulics to that cylinder :nenau
 
Odd one then, do you have free play on the brake pedal before it hits the master cylinder plunger, typically about 10 to 15 mm at the pedal? Rick
 
What about the flexy chassis to axle, did you renew this? Rick
 
Odd one then, do you have free play on the brake pedal before it hits the master cylinder plunger, typically about 10 to 15 mm at the pedal? Rick


I haven't touched the pedal as I didn't want to give myself more problems and seeing the problem only started as soon as I replaced the shoes I thought it would be that :confused:
 
This is a strange one as you've replaced almost every thing so i'm stumped:augie only time i've had warm/hot drums is when i've over adjust the shoes:doh so have just backed them off a couple of clicks & they have been fine
 
Logic shows the only explanation is that once fluid gets into the slave cylinder on the hot drum, it simply can't get back out.

OR... after applying some brake force the brake shoes are being picked up by the rotating drum causing it to engage.

In days gone by, you had to chamfer the leading edge on the width of each shoe to prevent this happening, so could this be it ":nenau


If the fault is with the brake equalisation valve, then you would expect the problem to be on both rear drums, unless the other cylinder is not allowing any braking action, ie wrongly adjusted, air in system, seized cylinder.
Have you tested the brake on this side?

There could be a blockage in the brake lines, or the equalisation valve, or any flexibles, or the seals in the master cylinder? does the brake pedal return to the up position?

Bleeding the brakes is probably the best action to start with.


Does seem odd from your description, what state were the brakes in, before you started "improving them" :augie
 
It appears to be the fluid not being able to return, you have changed everything I can think of, so you have to go back to when you 1st noticed the problem.

I have heard of new fittings causing issues once fitted...slave cylinder, flexi hose's etc, so it may be worth changing the shoes over with the other side (I take it you changed both sides at the same time) and see if it does the same thing. This should rule out the brake shoes.
Have you bled the whole system completely, there may be a bit of air still ??

If it all started after you changed the shoes, it does point to them, or you may have not put the shoes, springs and clips back in correctly...worth a check, it's bloody easy to do.
 
Right then chaps today I went and got a new set of shoes and replaced them and found the old shoes were bent where they go against cylinder and the bottom part which sits a a cup as what I think a result of getting verry hot, so
I left shoes slack and also the handrake cable and took for a spin and guess what drum still getting hot. So got the car home and left drum to cool down then I got a clamp and clamped off the flexy and took for yet another test drive and the drum stays nice and cold so it's defiantly a hydralic problem so what you think chaps (Rick):augie. Abs pump or master cylinder please remember I have replaced all the rear brake line from abs pump to rear wheels including a new flexy :nenau. I HATE THIS CAR :naughty
 
Very odd, so you have abs, this means you have separate pipes to each rear cyl, so looks like an ABS pump problem, I have one if you want to try it , Rick
 
Hi rick yes it has abs but only one feed to rear brakes and then it T's off on the flexy
 
Well I am new to ABS but my understanding is that each wheel has a sensor and if that wheel decelerates at the wrong speed then the ABS kicks in, I cannot see this working with two wheels on the same line, will check out the Mrs car tomorrow , but if what you say is correct then the same should be occurring on the other rear brake as well, but it is not????? Rick
 
That's just it rick the other side is infact getting warm but not hot like the other side but like you said the one side may not be adjusted up the same ad the other and now I've put the clamp on the flexy both drums are staying stone cold and as for the abs I know what you mean but I'm 100% sure there is just the one feed to the rear brakes but two to the front.
 
I will look at our ABS motor tomorrow and come back to you, Rick
 
if you look on Page BR7, of the WS manual, is shows the ABS brake cct, and sure enough, it is 3 way feed, front wheels are separate, but rear wheels do indeed have a single feed, with a "T" on the back axle. There are 5 pipes, but the other 2, are the dual cct from the master cylinder, separating the front and rear systems, rather than the more conventional opposite corners, as shown on page BR37

What I can't work out though, is where the flexible pipe you are clamping off is, e.g., before or after the "T" piece. I think IIRC it is before, passing from the body the the rear axle in the middle, so when you clamp it, it is actually stopping the braking to both rear wheels.

My recommendations are:-

Make sure that the flexible pipe is not getting pinched somewhere when the rear axle is back in it's normal ride position.

Also check the handbrake cable is not snagging on something, so when the wheels are back on the ground, it is pulling the cable up.

Have you looked at the load sensing valve?, although I really can't see how that could keep pressure there, since it reduces the pressure.

Personally, I would do a part by part check to make sure the rear brakes are assembled correctly, and that you have the 2 retainers fitted to hold the shoes against the back plate. I would then get someone to gently press the brake pedal (Not to far, you don't want to pop the pistons out), and watch how the shoes move out on both sides, and hopefully returns via the springs, as it sounds like the springs may not be pulling them back properly.

After that, since the ABS pump does have a separate return valve for the front brakes to the rear, it could well be that, but again, other than replacement, I have no idea how you could test it.
 
Today out of interest I decidec to tried to immobilise the abs pump so I removed the fuse under the dash and I also found some kind of relay under the bonnet so I took that out too. Then I took it for a spin and it seems the drums are still getting warm but no where near as hot as before. Would it be possible to bypass the abs pump by removing the rear brake feed from abs and take it straight to the master cylinder ??
 
looked at the Mrs TDi today and yes the two rear brakes are joined, so begs the question why is only one affected? the best I can come up with is contamination/debris in the pipe that is acting as a one way valve, Rick
 

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