Poor handbrake

[Terranical]

After getting a local garage here in Spain to have a look at my handbrake, at which all they did was tighten the cable to the extent that the osr brake was dragging so much that I had smoke coming from the drum, I decided to have a go at it myself.

Following the workshop sheet, I adjusted the self-adjuster by three teeth, which was enough to create very slight drag on the drum, I then moved them back by one tooth, which allowed the drum to move without any drag.

I refitted the drums, adjusted the cable to allow 7 or 8 clicks on the handbrake and took it out to try - absolutely no difference at all - any more than a slight gradient and the car would roll, even if I used two hands to pull the brake on . Cables (all three) are almost new, I lubed the compensator where the front cable meets the two rear cables and got the wife to pull on and release brake while I watched the cable movement. Both left and right were moving forward together, and by the same amount (I had the drums and wheels back on by this point, so I was unable to see what was happening to the shoes, but I can't imagine that they were doing anything other than expanding and contacting the drums).
I am now running out of ideas, can anyone help please?

 

[briggie]

is the drum itself ok ?

 

[Terranical]

is the drum itself ok ?

Yes, they both look good (no wear ridge on them at all, no scoring, plus the shoes themselves have only done 2 or 3 thousand miles).

 

[leafy1]

Do you have 1 thin shoe and 1 thick shoe in the drum.

 

[Terranical]

Do you have 1 thin shoe and 1 thick shoe in the drum.

Didn't think to look at that, but as the shoes are pretty new I wouldn't have thought so. Still, if I have to have the wheels and drums off again, which seems likely, I'll have a look.

 

[leafy1]

On my Terrano the leading shoe is thicker(The shoe on the right if looking from the drivers side) or on the left if looking from the passenger side.

 

[leafy1]

Did you put the handbrake fully off then adjust it.

 

[rustic]

Have you tried the shoe in the drum itself, away from the car to check the contact area.

There are 2 types for the Terrano/ Maverick.

Are the shoes polished with heat? you may have to abrade the surface, but caution required because of the dust.

I always clean the shoes and the drum with brake cleaner.


At the start of the operation did you slacken the handbrake adjuster first, before adjusting the shoes in the drum?

Just some ideas...



.

 

[briggie]

has any oil / grease contaminated the drum / shoes , while checking -oiling the cable etc ?

 

[Terranical]

has any oil / grease contaminated the drum / shoes , while checking -oiling the cable etc ?

Everything looks bone-dry inside the drums, I did squirt a little penetrating oil onto each auto-adjuster, but very little, and with a tube on the aerosol, so nothing went on the shoes. However, re Rustic's comment, all four shoes were quite shiny, and bearing in mind the over-adjustment of the cable by the Spanish garage, it seems likely that some abrading of the surface may help.
Re leafy's comment, I slackened the cable adjusting nut almost to the end of the thread, to the extent that there was probably 2" of movement on the handbrake before the slack was taken up.

 

[solarman216]

A little tip re hand brake on T2s (applies to Mk 1s & 2s dont know about others) on the back plate at the lower rear is a hard rubber push button, with the wheels chocked and hand brake off you should only be able to push it in about 1 mm, if it goes in much more then the fulcrum lever has not returned to the fully off position, indicating the cables are adjusted up too much or are stiff and holding the lever further forward than it should be, if that is the case you will not get an efficient hand brake, Rick

 

[Terranical]

A little tip re hand brake on T2s (applies to Mk 1s & 2s dont know about others) on the back plate at the lower rear is a hard rubber push button, with the wheels chocked and hand brake off you should only be able to push it in about 1 mm, if it goes in much more then the fulcrum lever has not returned to the fully off position, indicating the cables are adjusted up too much or are stiff and holding the lever further forward than it should be, if that is the case you will not get an efficient hand brake, Rick

Thanks for that Rick, I'll check it this morning.

 

[Terranical]

A little tip re hand brake on T2s (applies to Mk 1s & 2s dont know about others) on the back plate at the lower rear is a hard rubber push button, with the wheels chocked and hand brake off you should only be able to push it in about 1 mm, if it goes in much more then the fulcrum lever has not returned to the fully off position, indicating the cables are adjusted up too much or are stiff and holding the lever further forward than it should be, if that is the case you will not get an efficient hand brake, Rick

Had another go at my handbrake this morning, following up on some of the valuable advice from some of you members.
Re Rick's tip about the push button on the back brake plate, the offside one was fully out
with virtually no movement, but when I pushed it in manually it stayed in. Wiggling the plate behind the shoe made it come back out. The nearside button was fully in and could be slid out and in freely, so it obviously wasn't doing anything.
I was reluctant to dismantle the shoes and adjusters as I do not have much in the way of facilities here in Spain, and I felt I could have trouble getting the springs back on, so I very carefully saturated the fulcrum area with light releasing oil, ensuring nothing got near the linings. I then moved the plate and pin backwards and forwards until eventually they did seem more free.
Following up makeitfit's advice I roughened up the shiny linings with a coarse rasp.
Finally I gave the drums a good clean with coarse emery.
I have yet to try it on a steep hill, but my initial test of trying to pull away with the handbrake on suggests some improvement.
Thanks guys for all your tips and help, I couldn't have done it without you.

 

[Terranical]

Had another go at my handbrake this morning, following up on some of the valuable advice from some of you members.
Re Rick's tip about the push button on the back brake plate, the offside one was fully out
with virtually no movement, but when I pushed it in manually it stayed in. Wiggling the plate behind the shoe made it come back out. The nearside button was fully in and could be slid out and in freely, so it obviously wasn't doing anything.
I was reluctant to dismantle the shoes and adjusters as I do not have much in the way of facilities here in Spain, and I felt I could have trouble getting the springs back on, so I very carefully saturated the fulcrum area with light releasing oil, ensuring nothing got near the linings. I then moved the plate and pin backwards and forwards until eventually they did seem more free.
Following up makeitfit's advice I roughened up the shiny linings with a coarse rasp.
Finally I gave the drums a good clean with coarse emery.
I have yet to try it on a steep hill, but my initial test of trying to pull away with the handbrake on suggests some improvement.
Thanks guys for all your tips and help, I couldn't have done it without you.

Re my thread above, my apologies to Rustic, from whom came the tip about roughing up the shiny linings, I credited that to Makeitfit!

 

[solarman216]

if you did these checks with the hand brake off then the cables are adjusted too tight or they are stiff and not coming back on their own, these buttons are not connected to any thing they are just a tell tail re the position of the fulcrum and maybe a buffer to stop the fulcrums going back too far, on a properly set up system the buttons should be fully out and held there by the fulcrum levers, Rick

 

[Terranical]

if you did these checks with the hand brake off then the cables are adjusted too tight or they are stiff and not coming back on their own, these buttons are not connected to any thing they are just a tell tail re the position of the fulcrum and maybe a buffer to stop the fulcrums going back too far, on a properly set up system the buttons should be fully out and held there by the fulcrum levers, Rick

I have the cables set fairly slack (about 12-14 clicks to fully on), and checked the buttons as you suggested i.e. handbrake off, wheels chocked, so I think the problem is stiffness. Knowing nothing about how the system works I can see that the button contacts a lug on a plate which sits behind the brake shoe, this plate, which I assume is part of the shoe, looks and is pretty new, as are the brake shoes. However I don't know what the fulcrum looks like (the last time I touched a drum brake was over 40 years ago on a Ford Consul!) I seem to remember that was simply a cam with two flat sides which rotated on being pulled by the hb cable - this was at the opposite side to the wheel cylinder. Those shoes could be removed with the springs still attached by levering them out with a big screwdriver, and levered back in the same way.
I really have no idea how this system works, so I'm fishing in the dark - hence my reluctance to strip it all down, particularly as I'm not too confident about being able to get the shoe springs back on to the shoes, and not knowing what else will come off if I do remove the shoes.

 

[bobhope]

I had the same problem on mine , turned out the near side cable was shot.

I did have a go myself ,but after hours of fiddling , rebuilding back up and still no good , so let my local garage do, who replaced the cable , i thought the cable was ok ,but said was not sliding in sleeve properly hence poor efficiency of brake.

 

[solarman216]

I have the cables set fairly slack (about 12-14 clicks to fully on), and checked the buttons as you suggested i.e. handbrake off, wheels chocked, so I think the problem is stiffness. Knowing nothing about how the system works I can see that the button contacts a lug on a plate which sits behind the brake shoe, this plate, which I assume is part of the shoe, looks and is pretty new, as are the brake shoes. However I don't know what the fulcrum looks like (the last time I touched a drum brake was over 40 years ago on a Ford Consul!) I seem to remember that was simply a cam with two flat sides which rotated on being pulled by the hb cable - this was at the opposite side to the wheel cylinder. Those shoes could be removed with the springs still attached by levering them out with a big screwdriver, and levered back in the same way.
I really have no idea how this system works, so I'm fishing in the dark - hence my reluctance to strip it all down, particularly as I'm not too confident about being able to get the shoe springs back on to the shoes, and not knowing what else will come off if I do remove the shoes.

yes they are a bit tricky to get back together, when I mention fulcrum what I am referring to is the lever that the end of the cable goes into and it is this that rests against the push button in the backplate, sorry to confuse, Rick

 

[Terranical]

yes they are a bit tricky to get back together, when I mention fulcrum what I am referring to is the lever that the end of the cable goes into and it is this that rests against the push button in the backplate, sorry to confuse, Rick

Took the car out for a run, absolutely no difference whatsoever! Really starting to p**s me off now! Cables appear to be fine (they have only done about 3000 miles, as have the shoes). I got the wife to sit in the car moving the hb up and down while I watched each side with the drums off - on both hubs the forward shoe moved forward and back as the hb went up and down (I assume it's correct that only one shoe moves, the one nearest the rear of the car didn't move on either side), it's getting to the point where hill starts are worrying!

 

[solarman216]

with the drum off you will see odd things because with the drum on the force is equalised through the link rod between the shoes, so disregard that, as long as with the HB off the levers are back against the push buttons then the next is to adjust the brake auto adjuster (that does not auto) till you can just get the drum on, the down side is if you have a rust/wear lip you need to remove this first or you will be well out of adjustment after getting the drum on, I use a bench grinder with all the guards removed, you could use an angle grinder with three cutting disks or two grinding disks, but do not go grinding at angles to the drum you will set up stress raisers, Rick