Please Help, engine replacement wont start

[Venus]

Hi

Here's hoping someone can help solve this problem. I have a Terrano II 2.7tdi (1996 P) and have just had to put another engine in (off an 'N' I was told at the scrap yard) as the old one seized up. We have solved all the problems we have encountered along the way and are down to (hopefully) the final one, it won't fire up.

We have plenty of fuel getting through the filter to the pump but there does not seem to be enough fuel coming through the pump to the injectors according to popular opinion. The fuel pump is the one that came with the replacement engine as it seemed a bit daft to cause extra work swapping them over. I have read the info on NATS but don't have transponder keys, but it does have an immobiliser that has a flashing light fitted into the dash (if that's relevant). Have tried swapping fuel switches over but there's no difference and now Me and my mate are stuck, we do not have a scooby doo what could be wrong, so, if anyone could please help, we would be very grateful :smile:

Many Thanks
Steve

 

[Timbo_1975]

Could you give alittle more info please...

Surely the N reg engine was a TD, and thus has a completely different fuel system from your TDi ??

I have a feeling you're going to need to swap pumps, as well as possibly injectors too (earlier td's used a smaller injector)

Tim..

 

[Venus]

Thanks for the reply.

I only have the scrapyards word that the engine came out of an N reg but both pumps were identical and I had to use the pipes from the pump to the injectors off my old engine, and thinking about it, the rocker cover has 2,7tdi on it. So it's a possibility that I've either mis-heard the scrap dealer or he has got it wrong.

My mate who has been helping with this saw an auto electrician in his street that thought the solonoid on the fuel pump may be coded to the ignition but wasn't sure and I'll be honest, I'm don't relish the thought of having to change the pump but if that is what has to done that is what has to be done but I'm hoping that there is another way around this.

Hope this helps

Many Thanks
Steve

 

[Terranosaurus]

the fuel pump may be coded to the ignition

Thats what I though when I read this - thats how they make the imobiliser work, there is a second stop valve in the fuel pump that doesn't aloow fuel past it properly - usual thing is to swap fuel pump over - had to have this done with my renault van when I had the engine replaced.

 

[Toolbox]

The pump shouldn’t need changing as they are not coded to the engine management or NATS, the only thing you need to check regarding the pump, is the make of the pump and number on the side of the pump to make sure they are the same, a bosch pump propably wont work with a zexel ecu and visa versa.
The pumps will look the same as Zexel is made under license from Bosch

 

[Venus]

That's good news about the fuel pump not needing changing Toolbox, I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case....but I do owe an apology for being a little bit stupid and Tim was spot on, the engine I've put in is a TD and not a TDI as I said in my second post. This is the reason why I'm not a mechanic

I will check the info regarding the pump as you advise Toolbox and to update you further, the pump and the injectors are what came with the new engine, the only thing we took off the old engine were the fuel lines from the pump to the injectors (if the earlier TD's used smaller injector's does that mean these should be smaller too?) and the flat black switch that sits on top of the accelerator part of the pump as the scrappy's had ripped the connection of the one on the engine, hope this makes sense as I'm only a layman when it comes to these type of things, as you've no doubt guessed.

Many Thanks again to all
Steve


[/b]

 

[extreme-4x4]

the fuel pump may be coded to the ignition

Thats what I though when I read this - thats how they make the imobiliser work, there is a second stop valve in the fuel pump that doesn't aloow fuel past it properly - usual thing is to swap fuel pump over - had to have this done with my renault van when I had the engine replaced.[/quote


to be honest im no expert.... but

the things i would look at are

is the engine linked to the ecu as it would be in common rail deisel

is the new engine a tdi to match your tdi

is the fuel pump is linked to the ecu to instruct fuel supply

have you wired it in right

are the injectors coded to ecu


you say in your first post you have got over all the problems so far...what where they ? could be a clue there !

 

[extreme-4x4]

That's good news about the fuel pump not needing changing Toolbox, I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case....but I do owe an apology for being a little bit stupid and Tim was spot on, the engine I've put in is a TD and not a TDI as I said in my second post. This is the reason why I'm not a mechanic

I will check the info regarding the pump as you advise Toolbox and to update you further, the pump and the injectors are what came with the new engine, the only thing we took off the old engine were the fuel lines from the pump to the injectors (if the earlier TD's used smaller injector's does that mean these should be smaller too?) and the flat black switch that sits on top of the accelerator part of the pump as the scrappy's had ripped the connection of the one on the engine, hope this makes sense as I'm only a layman when it comes to these type of things, as you've no doubt guessed.

Many Thanks again to all
Steve


[/b]

so you have put a td engine into a tdi ? ..... please confirm


so any one of the sensors or settings could be not working as it should then ?

if its ever going to work anyway


way beyond my lack of knowlage ....but i would have got a matching engine at least you stand a chance then

 

[Toolbox]

Well I’m now totally confused Venus,

Please don’t tell me you have replaced a TDI engine with a TD engine.

 

[Timbo_1975]

Me too!!



Tim..

 

[extreme-4x4]

ermm

well he's gone rather quiet..... question is : has he fixed it and gone out for a drive this evening.... or

 

[Venus]

Please don’t tell me you have replaced a TDI engine with a TD engine

Errrmmm! Unwittingly I have and now I'm starting to have a bad feeling about this. To be honest when I was looking for an engine I was asking the scrapyards for a 2.7 tdi and was told on the phone that they had one but when I went to pick it up there was a bit of ambiguity over how much deposit I was supposed to be leaving against my old engine (told £50 on phone and when I got to the scrapyard they wanted a £100) and, in my naivity, never even thought to check if it was tdi or not and until Tim mentioned it on his post I still hadn't give it a thought. Like I said before, there is a reason why I'm not a mechanic.

So, is there a way forward from this or am I better off changing the whole engine again. The problems I mentioned we have worked through already have been (apart from getting the engine out in the first place) daft stuff not associated with the engine directly.

Here's hoping for some good news
Steve

 

[extreme-4x4]

Please don’t tell me you have replaced a TDI engine with a TD engine

Errrmmm! Unwittingly I have and now I'm starting to have a bad feeling about this. To be honest when I was looking for an engine I was asking the scrapyards for a 2.7 tdi and was told on the phone that they had one but when I went to pick it up there was a bit of ambiguity over how much deposit I was supposed to be leaving against my old engine (told £50 on phone and when I got to the scrapyard they wanted a £100) and, in my naivity, never even thought to check if it was tdi or not and until Tim mentioned it on his post I still hadn't give it a thought. Like I said before, there is a reason why I'm not a mechanic.

So, is there a way forward from this or am I better off changing the whole engine again. The problems I mentioned we have worked through already have been (apart from getting the engine out in the first place) daft stuff not associated with the engine directly.

Here's hoping for some good news
Steve

ok well im no expert, but you will probably be best looking for a tdi engine. to stand a chance

 

[Venus]

Would it not be worth getting someone to do a dianostic test first, maybe re-programme the ECU?

Steve

 

[Toolbox]

Now that is a big boob, if I were you I would take the engine out again and take it back and get your money back as it is there fault really that you have the wrong engine.

There may be a slim chance you may be able to get it running, if the injectors will fit from your old engine, number one is important as it has a timing sensor built in to it, if not you will have to change the head, the inlet manifold will have to be swapped, the injection pump will need changing and the temp probe in the head will have to be added, these are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head, you could end up with two engines stripped to short motors and find it still wont work.

You possibly could run it as it is, but without the control unit and wiring from a TD it would be a bit of a hot wire and you would need a throttle pedal and cable to be added as the pump on a TD is not a fly bye wire pump.

It could be a big can of worms

 

[extreme-4x4]

Would it not be worth getting someone to do a dianostic test first, maybe re-programme the ECU?

Steve

is it insured ? do you have any matches ? are you too honest ?

even if you fix it which i doubt you will paying someone to fix it wont be cheep . phone the breakers tell them the engine is not working and get your money back.

in the meantime ask on here for an engine a tdi one

i don't really know what to say i know i would have probably made the same mistake so i know how you feel, but there are genuinely helpful people here so , we will help where we can .... but id start again with a tdi engine

 

[Venus]

oh dear, can't what I really would like to....but will try the injectors first and pray....would a dianostic help and can the ECU be re-programmed or is or is it not that simple?

Steve

 

[Toolbox]

Venus,

If you are unsure about what the engines are, you can send me some pictures and I can confirm one way or the other, if you would like.

 

[extreme-4x4]

oh dear, can't what I really would like to....but will try the injectors first and pray....would a dianostic help and can the ECU be re-programmed or is or is it not that simple?

Steve

if you cant take it back sell the td engine here or on ebay to get some money back then find a tdi engine...... really you could end up with 2 engines in bits and still nothing to show for it ..... stop now while you can and start afresh

 

[Toolbox]

oh dear, can't what I really would like to....but will try the injectors first and pray....would a dianostic help and can the ECU be re-programmed or is or is it not that simple?

Steve

Its not just the injectors, if you have a TD engine it has a mechanical pump controlled by a cable when you put your foot down.

The pumps look completely different.

The TDI pump has no mechanical link and is worked through wires controlled by the ECU it also has many sensors on the engine to control the fuel delivery.

You must be left with a lot of wire connections with no where to connect them if you have fitted a TD engine.