Overboost problem, 2005 Patrol
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Thomas-the-Terrano2
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hey after weeks ofnothing i ve had check light come on twice, and not towing
just bumbling round town. thought had stalled going round a t junction went
to
see batt/oil light nothing, tbh radio was quite loud the saw orange engine light.
reset as usual when turned off.
also found that get a hesitation sometimes around 2600 rpm, maybe first time
on given journey reached that revs. keeps running but like a rev limiter then
carries on surging power wise upwards.
could the 16 valve head have an effect on performance. seem to think when
first became common on performance hatches etc, were claimed to lack power
below a certain rpm then benefits of multi valve kicked in.
also what rpm is peak power at on these motors, would that factor in too?
just bumbling round town. thought had stalled going round a t junction went
to
see batt/oil light nothing, tbh radio was quite loud the saw orange engine light.
reset as usual when turned off.
also found that get a hesitation sometimes around 2600 rpm, maybe first time
on given journey reached that revs. keeps running but like a rev limiter then
carries on surging power wise upwards.
could the 16 valve head have an effect on performance. seem to think when
first became common on performance hatches etc, were claimed to lack power
below a certain rpm then benefits of multi valve kicked in.
also what rpm is peak power at on these motors, would that factor in too?
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Andrewk after reading what you've been saying I'm sure you've been on patrol4x4 forum:thumb2 you are correct when you mention the MAF, the guys there suspect them to be a problem with the overboosting, they also talk about the EGR sticking causing problems. I also know that the guys block the EGR to stop all the soot being pumped into the engine. PM DaveMudd as he nows how they work. You don't want a grenade on your hands. Just read you've got it sorted with new MAF
thomas have you found out what the fault code is on yours? I know mines is a 2.8 but I had the same thing happen to mine and it was the throttle pedal. I changed my pedal which was off a 3.0ltr ( same pedal up to CRD engines)
Let us know how you get on.
:thumb2
thomas have you found out what the fault code is on yours? I know mines is a 2.8 but I had the same thing happen to mine and it was the throttle pedal. I changed my pedal which was off a 3.0ltr ( same pedal up to CRD engines)
Let us know how you get on.
:thumb2
It sure is. It's running better than ever - and it's doing maybe 2 or 3 mpg more.
Andrew
Thomas-the-Terrano2
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i'm convinced my check light is a throttle issue, and hope the pedal. there is no loss of power or funny noises, just a hesitation which clears as quick as it appears, i ease off then floor it again and its as if never happened apart from light is on til next switch off.
deano has recommended an independent with a ex nissan computer to attach to being as rac lappy couldnt talk to our ecu.
suspect the cure is dearer than the problem but would be nice to confirm and eliminate.
deano has recommended an independent with a ex nissan computer to attach to being as rac lappy couldnt talk to our ecu.
suspect the cure is dearer than the problem but would be nice to confirm and eliminate.
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Richard, mines only happened when I stopped at a junction and when attempting to pull away it hesitated MIL came on and went back off after lifting foot off pedal. Nissan checked mine and they can tell you how many starts ago it 1st happened. They cleared it and charged me nothing, told me if it happened again i'd need a new unit
£400 odd
I got a 2nd hand one off 1st Nissan at a decent price never happend since:augie its a bit of a pain to change due to the location of the 3 plugs, but its doable
I still got my old pedal unit, it only happened to mine twice. I changed it because I was going away in the van, so didn't want to take any chances.
If you want my old unit to try, give me a shout. Don't want anything for it, but we'll need to sort something out with postage.
£400 oddI got a 2nd hand one off 1st Nissan at a decent price
never happend since:augie its a bit of a pain to change due to the location of the 3 plugs, but its doableI still got my old pedal unit, it only happened to mine twice. I changed it because I was going away in the van, so didn't want to take any chances.
If you want my old unit to try, give me a shout. Don't want anything for it, but we'll need to sort something out with postage.
Thomas-the-Terrano2
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Alan, that s very kind mate, will it be same from 6cyl to 3.0?
funny yours cleared when eased off.
have you got any pix of so can get idea of whats involved.
funny yours cleared when eased off.
have you got any pix of so can get idea of whats involved.
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Its exactly the same Unit as the one on mine is off an 03 3.0ltr. I checked with Nissan before I bought it. The unit changes when the CRD engine is introduced in 06 I think
No pics as I'm away at work for another 10 days.
nissan can check to see what the problem is, the Consult system stores the code, it also tells you when it 1st happened if its happened a few times.
:thumb2
No pics as I'm away at work for another 10 days.
nissan can check to see what the problem is, the Consult system stores the code, it also tells you when it 1st happened if its happened a few times.
:thumb2
Just a quick update on this.
I had thought that the problem was fixed. The Patrol was behaving fine - as performance is great now (for a Patrol). It's also doing better for fuel consumption, so fitting the new MAF sensor was worth doing whatever.
We went away over Easter to Scotland - towed the caravan nearly 600 miles round trip. No problem on the way up, though I was really very gentle with it. On the way back, somewhere on the M74, I had a shot at overtaking 3 trucks. The 'Troll was in 5th and doing around 58mph-60mph on the flat, so it was going to just be a rolling overtake - should be no problem. It was no problem until I approached the 3rd truck, the motorway started to incline a bit and speed started to fall slightly. I changed down to 4th and pressed on the accelerator a little. Speed continued to fall. I pressed down some more and then got the dreaded overboost fault. It feels just like your foot has slipped off the throttle pedal (but in reality, the ECU has just reduced the amount of fuel supplied to the engine). Press the thottle to the floor - nothing happens. Lift off and press down again, the fault clears and performance is back to normal. We still have the overboost fault.
So, summarising where we are up to .........
* I know we have an ECU overboost condition but don't known whether we have a real overboost or a fictional one due to a duff sensor. I've already changed the MAF for a new one and have no reason to suppose that the throttle pedal sensor is faulty
* The VNT actuator seems to be working OK. The actuator rod is at the bottom with the engine switched off and at the top on tickover. The lever works smoothly and doesn't seem to be sticking. The turbo vanes are probably not sticking and the vac hoses are OK.
* As the'Troll has only done 43000m from new; performance is great; fuel consumption fine and the motor doesn't make smoke, common sense (and Occam's Razor) suggests that we don't really have excessive boost and the problem *probably* results from the "Charge Air Sensor" (aka MAP sensor, boost sensor, manifold pressure sensor or whatever) telling fibs.
This morning, I had Westway Nissan in Oldham fit a new "boost sensor" (I'd have done it myself, but can't find a source for the sensor other than Nissan). They charged £20 for fitting it and did a free wash & vac for the 'Troll - which I thought was might fine of them. What wasn't quite so fine was they they charged £186.96 +VAT for the sensor itself!!!! You can get them off Fleabay for most motors for less than £50 (sometimes a LOT less than £50). Ho hum .......... beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. (it's a Hitachi 22365-VC10A).
I'm 80%+ convinced that the fault is now really cured, but won't know for sure without an extended test drive. Unfortunately, I don't really have a strategy for deciding on the next step if it proves not to be fixed.
I'll keep you posted .............
(Actually that wasn't really a *quick* update, was it?)
Andrew
I had thought that the problem was fixed. The Patrol was behaving fine - as performance is great now (for a Patrol). It's also doing better for fuel consumption, so fitting the new MAF sensor was worth doing whatever.
We went away over Easter to Scotland - towed the caravan nearly 600 miles round trip. No problem on the way up, though I was really very gentle with it. On the way back, somewhere on the M74, I had a shot at overtaking 3 trucks. The 'Troll was in 5th and doing around 58mph-60mph on the flat, so it was going to just be a rolling overtake - should be no problem. It was no problem until I approached the 3rd truck, the motorway started to incline a bit and speed started to fall slightly. I changed down to 4th and pressed on the accelerator a little. Speed continued to fall. I pressed down some more and then got the dreaded overboost fault. It feels just like your foot has slipped off the throttle pedal (but in reality, the ECU has just reduced the amount of fuel supplied to the engine). Press the thottle to the floor - nothing happens. Lift off and press down again, the fault clears and performance is back to normal. We still have the overboost fault.
So, summarising where we are up to .........
* I know we have an ECU overboost condition but don't known whether we have a real overboost or a fictional one due to a duff sensor. I've already changed the MAF for a new one and have no reason to suppose that the throttle pedal sensor is faulty
* The VNT actuator seems to be working OK. The actuator rod is at the bottom with the engine switched off and at the top on tickover. The lever works smoothly and doesn't seem to be sticking. The turbo vanes are probably not sticking and the vac hoses are OK.
* As the'Troll has only done 43000m from new; performance is great; fuel consumption fine and the motor doesn't make smoke, common sense (and Occam's Razor) suggests that we don't really have excessive boost and the problem *probably* results from the "Charge Air Sensor" (aka MAP sensor, boost sensor, manifold pressure sensor or whatever) telling fibs.
This morning, I had Westway Nissan in Oldham fit a new "boost sensor" (I'd have done it myself, but can't find a source for the sensor other than Nissan). They charged £20 for fitting it and did a free wash & vac for the 'Troll - which I thought was might fine of them. What wasn't quite so fine was they they charged £186.96 +VAT for the sensor itself!!!! You can get them off Fleabay for most motors for less than £50 (sometimes a LOT less than £50). Ho hum .......... beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. (it's a Hitachi 22365-VC10A).
I'm 80%+ convinced that the fault is now really cured, but won't know for sure without an extended test drive. Unfortunately, I don't really have a strategy for deciding on the next step if it proves not to be fixed.
I'll keep you posted .............
(Actually that wasn't really a *quick* update, was it?)
Andrew
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Sorry to hear you are still having issues:doh
These beasts are too complicated for their own good these days could be something as daft as a dodgy connection on one of the sensors
You could fit a boost gauge and it would tell you exactly what the boost is doing.
I'm in the process of fitting a dual EGT, boost gauge to mine to see what is happenning on mine. I've done a few mods on my 2.8 slug and don't want to kill it :doh
These beasts are too complicated for their own good these days
could be something as daft as a dodgy connection on one of the sensors You could fit a boost gauge and it would tell you exactly what the boost is doing.
I'm in the process of fitting a dual EGT, boost gauge to mine to see what is happenning on mine. I've done a few mods on my 2.8 slug and don't want to kill it :doh
In theory, the 'Troll already has the rudiments of one - the "Charge Air Pressure sensor" (aka boost sensor, aka MAP sensor). I could, I suppose, run a cable from the sensor into the cab to connect a DMM to for diagnostics purposes. Actually, I might not even need to do that - providing I can find some way of emulating the dealer's Consult-II system (the diagnostics connector is under the dash near your right shin).
Some of the ECU code readers/scanners on Fleabay will also read data from engine sensors such as the MAF and boost sensor, but I don't think that an 05 'Troll's diagnostics are OBD-2 compliant - even though the connector is an OBD-2 format socket.
Andrew
Thomas-the-Terrano2
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nope my mate from rac deano on here couldnt get his work lappy to talk to the troll,
we thought onto a winner when saw connector. suspect its back to nissan.
minie has been behaving last few weeks, though mrs got it once but knows now how
to deal with it!
got couple of days off next week before bank hol away so hoping to get booked onto
a reader.
we thought onto a winner when saw connector. suspect its back to nissan.
minie has been behaving last few weeks, though mrs got it once but knows now how
to deal with it!
got couple of days off next week before bank hol away so hoping to get booked onto
a reader.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2009
- Messages
- 1,548
You might find the following link useful as a starting point....
http://www.yellowfoot.org/chaz/Consult Interface.htm
Consult unit (pins 12 & 13 for RX & TX data)
And also here:
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/consult_if.shtml
http://www.yellowfoot.org/chaz/Consult Interface.htm
Consult unit (pins 12 & 13 for RX & TX data)
And also here:
http://www.plmsdevelopments.com/consult_if.shtml
Take care - Westway Nissan told me that they charge about £85 to do an engine diagnostic using Consult.
Andrew
Yes, I think they probably are. I have had this beast for less than 3 years and have replaced 4 faulty sensors. Two high pressure oil pressure sensors, a MAF sensor and now a Charge Air sensor (aka MAP or boost sensor). There was a 0905 ECU fault stored (now cleared) which is boost pressure/boost sensor. As performance is fine and we have no smoke or untoward noises, it's a bit unlikely that the turbo itself is goosed.
I'm maybe 90%+ convinced its fixed now. Had a bit of a run around today and couldn't provoke it into generating the overboost error. I'll give it a bit of a thrash over the weekend and if everything's OK, we'll take the caravan away for a week or so in May. If everything is still OK after that and we have no more 0905 errors then I think we can declare it good and fixed.
Andrew
Thomas-the-Terrano2
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cheers, its an independent near barnsley ive been referred to, though gather has
genuine nissan computer from an agent that closed.
going next week, his only concern was as light clears each time engine switches off
whether the car will remember the fault, hope so and chances of recreating on way
there are slim. oh well we will see...
You can read error codes yourself without any tools. For a Patrol with a white 16pin socket, all you need to do is:
1) Short pins 1 and 8 of the socket with a piece of wire. Pins 1 & 8 are the at ends of the bottom row.
2) Switch on the ignition but don't start the engine. After 2 or 3 seconds, remove the piece of wire.
You will then see the engine warning light flashing. Stored codes are 4 digits long - xxyy. The xx part of the code are long flashes and the yy part are short flashes. After flashing the code, there is a pause and then it repeats until you turn the ignition off.
A turbo boost error is 0905, so you would see 9 long flashes followed by 5 short flashes for that error. If you get 0505 it means that the diagnostics are working but there is no stored error.
You can clear stored errors by re-inserting the wire for a few secs and then turning the ignition off or by removing the battery earth terminal overnight.
Cheers
Andrew
1) Short pins 1 and 8 of the socket with a piece of wire. Pins 1 & 8 are the at ends of the bottom row.
2) Switch on the ignition but don't start the engine. After 2 or 3 seconds, remove the piece of wire.
You will then see the engine warning light flashing. Stored codes are 4 digits long - xxyy. The xx part of the code are long flashes and the yy part are short flashes. After flashing the code, there is a pause and then it repeats until you turn the ignition off.
A turbo boost error is 0905, so you would see 9 long flashes followed by 5 short flashes for that error. If you get 0505 it means that the diagnostics are working but there is no stored error.
You can clear stored errors by re-inserting the wire for a few secs and then turning the ignition off or by removing the battery earth terminal overnight.
Cheers
Andrew
Went to Southport today. We did about 120 miles round trip. On the way back I gave it a fair thrashing, overtaking anything I reasonably could on the A59. Also gave it a run on the motorway - again accelerating hard in 3rd, 4th and 5th to overtake whenever the opportunity presented itself.
I can now say that it's fixed with (near) complete confidence. It didn't miss a beat. Performance was better than it's been since I bought the car.
Thank you very much to everyone who has offered advice - most appreciated.
Andrew
I can now say that it's fixed with (near) complete confidence. It didn't miss a beat. Performance was better than it's been since I bought the car.
Thank you very much to everyone who has offered advice - most appreciated.
Andrew
