Is there terrano still good in bad weather when not in 4wd?

[briggie]

i would be very interested in the technical side of things , ie ...emissions when running on svo/wvo... are they the same as diesel ? ..hydrocarbons etc ... i know diesel engines run on compression basis , but is the flash point of svo/wvo the same as diesel ? ..... im wondering about lubricating properties too .... perhaps you could enlighten ? :nenau

 

[lacroupade]

sorry un true mate ,my oil is cleaner than svo iam down to 0.1 micron.and oil has been lab tested

it wasn't solids I was talking about if you read my post...its the dissolved chemicals and other undesirable elements I'm talking about that are inevitable when its been used to fry animal products for gods knows how long, not to mention constant high temperatures that will have an effect.

Where did you get it tested out of interest, I'd like to do the same with some SVO.....

But I'm suss about this 0.1 micron stuff....a particle that small is subject to Brownian Motion and it would be a very expensive filter that would pick that sort of thing up...in fact even the best oil filters are only about 15 microns or so, so why bother filtering stuff down to a hundredth of that size??

 

[briggie]

it wasn't solids I was talking about if you read my post...its the dissolved chemicals and other undesirable elements I'm talking about that are inevitable when its been used to fry animal products for gods knows how long, not to mention constant high temperatures that will have an effect.

Where did you get it tested out of interest, I'd like to do the same with some SVO.....

But I'm suss about this 0.1 micron stuff....a particle that small is subject to Brownian Motion and it would be a very expensive filter that would pick that sort of thing up...in fact even the best oil filters are only about 15 microns or so, so why bother filtering stuff down to a hundredth of that size??

The first good explanation of Brownian movement was advanced by Desaulx in 1877: "In my way of thinking the phenomenon is a result of thermal molecular motion in the liquid environment (of the particles)." This is indeed the case. A suspended particle is constantly and randomly bombarded from all sides by molecules of the liquid. If the particle is very small, the hits it takes from one side will be stronger than the bumps from other side, causing it to jump. These small random jumps are what make up Brownian motion.

 

[jezmondoveg]

1St of all iam not trying to push filters,iam not even going to tell you where i get them from,i do this as a hobby.I find it all interesting,had great results.Spend hours and hours on this matter.

I am not on here to tell you to use oil in your car thats upto you to decide,wont get into that argument sorry but iam on a veg forum to much already.Will though try to help if any of you do need it.

as for mot and exhaust tests,Its way way cleaner on veg.the guys at the mot bay think there is something wrong with thier machine,when you tell them your on veg they laugh and say ahh ok i see..could have said! next mot i will run 100% veg and get a print out to compare that on diesel

My tests were sent off via a chap who iam testing filters for will try and find out the details for you.

I dont pay a penny for the oil....

OK cant use in a new car but your car is one that is good for a conversion.(which is really the best wat to go)its down to the type of injection pump,some types are a no no and fail in a short time.

The 0.1 is a very expensive pleated filter your right,its to do with reverse osmissis,it is not a common thing to use only a few of us are testing this micron,me and one other guy on wvo,and 2 on manking bio.

The filters we used have effency ratings and tec back up from companys tec heads,we have tried maybe 20 different types and came to this so far

20 micron spun wound,1 micron spun wound,0.5 spun wound,0.1 pleated.

but in summer i use a 1 micron melt blown filter,but this time of year its too slow for them 1 melt catches a bit more

We have tried special carbon filters,they work but found the carbon ones didnt help on wvo in cold condition but did on bio,carbon black which is in oil from cooking needs to be removed to help when doing tests in freezer.

Samples have been put in freezer and found after 12 then 24 hours oil was still runny clear and not frozen at -9oc
It took 3-4 days before they want solid smaples were 500ml.

Afer removing solid samples the recovery rate of the oil back to thin clear oil was amazing,at room temp the samples were back to nornaml in under 15mins..A probe was then put in the oil,the oil was at -5 when clear so was still cold.

We did compare svo in the freezer,diesel mix,20,1 micron wvo ect ect.


On preformance we found that the o.5 oil was the best,MUCH more power than 20,1 micron as most use.
I gave oil to friends without telling them what i was upto,they said that they noticed a difference on power,then i told them.
We found that there is a limmit to where you can filter to b4 removing the good bits out,and it was 0.5

When we went to 0.1 it was better in freezer,so better in winter,but the preformance drops a bit.not much but could be removing too much carbon.

wvo has more power than svo due to carbon,but too much carbon can maybe cause oil to gel quicker.

svo when produced is filterd to 9-10 microns.

so kind of a trade off ,but at this time of the year i still to 0.1, 0.5 in summer, it takes me 4mins 30 seconds to pump 20 ltrs from ibc though filters in to a can at 0 oc,so quite slow but not terrible,so far on the same set of filters. Got a full on gear oil trasfer pump,thats veg reated as well,quite powerfull and pricey bit of kit.

We are still working on it all and dont have all the answers,if we had the money would be able to do more science type tests in labs.
Problem is there are so many varibles than effect info found ie type of oil,hoe it is stored,what it has been cooking ect ect ect,so results differ from testers,still make some progress anyway.and been fun


Lastly for now,we noticed a improvement when you put oil through a second time,and even a 3rd no matter what filter you use,sock bag,ebay ect ect..so if you have a filter set up try it.and let me know if you can

laterz jez

 

[jezmondoveg]

it wasn't solids I was talking about if you read my post...its the dissolved chemicals and other undesirable elements I'm talking about that are inevitable when its been used to fry animal products for gods knows how long, not to mention constant high temperatures that will have an effect.

Where did you get it tested out of interest, I'd like to do the same with some SVO.....

But I'm suss about this 0.1 micron stuff....a particle that small is subject to Brownian Motion and it would be a very expensive filter that would pick that sort of thing up...in fact even the best oil filters are only about 15 microns or so, so why bother filtering stuff down to a hundredth of that size??

Thats one reason to go that low,to try and remove the above,chemicals nastys,bacteria,carbon.ect and try to get as pure as possable..

wont remove water by filtration like this,but well settled oil has little water in it.I had a water bocker filter on set up but removed it as not neeed.
There will be moisture in your diesel tank anyway.

The tests that were done showd my water content was lower than the bio someone else made and they heat that stuff up .

The reason why we wre able to test expensive filters was down to the fact the company who makes them wanted them tested on bio,wvo and we got them suppplied for free.


sorry i cat expand to much on all the points,just way too much to type,will try and answer posts where i can.

 

[kbekl]

it cant be anything like reverse osmosis water i have dealt with this on the hobby side and it just wouldn't be feasible for you to run that way.

with ro for 1ltr of tap water you get about 250ml of ro water and this cant be re filtered and re filtered over and over due to the way it removes chemicals

you can do a double in line ro membrane but this half's the life of the membrane, with trying to pass oil through a ro membrane you would be their for ever trying to get any usable fuel

i have run 3 different ro units for my saltwater tank my fav was the automated one which had a self bleed system

what are you actually trying to filter out ?

if it was just debris etc then you would be better of with a hma water filter system which removes heavy metal content out of water, this is used primarily by discus owners, and uses 2/3 filters 1 5 micron and 1 1 micron and a coconut carbon filter

the problem with ro water is it is completely striped of any useful minerals,

 

[lacroupade]

Karl :thumbs

Jez - Well it all sounds good stuff and an interesting hobby but what a bloody palaver when on the T2 you can just bang in modestly priced SVO, especially if bought in IBC quantities, at very high ratios without any modification. And it runs better AND you get a bit more oomph.

And as Karl rightly says, at 0.1 microns you have no idea what beneficial components you might be stripping out as well.....but good to know your engine won't catch a virus LOL

Still, horses for courses and all that.:thumb2

 

[jezmondoveg]

It is 100% a 0.1 micron filter,costs about 70 quid at cost trade price! if i remember,so yes your right would not be worth it at diy level but i get full backing from company who makes them(prob same place you buy from) They wanted expensive filters testing on wvo and bio,we did the testing they provide the filters.

And it was not a pleated like i said it IS the membrane filter,I can prove thats what ive used if you really need me to i will have to have confirmation email of this from suppiler.

It was done as a progression from all the different filter set ups we have tried,starting at the basic 20,1 micron that most use then on to 20,1 0.5 ect ect ect

tried these sorts of set ups

20 spun,1melt,1melt, 0.5,spun
20 spun,1 spun,0.5 spun
20 spun 1 spun 0.5 spun 1 spun

20,spun ,1 melt,0.5,01
20 spun,1 ,spun,0.5,0.1
20 spun 1,spun,5 carbon duel media filter,0.5


The vegforum was where all the results are,its really heavy going as it got to something like 46 pages, of reading.

The problem was as it was a masive thread it was hard to read and get info from,got quite a few digs about it was a waste of time ect ect ect.but hey the guys who make the filters were only trying to see if any improvements can be made on the way it was done in the past.


Iam not saying you need to go as low as 0.1 at all,it was just for experement purpose anyway,we didnt know what it was going to do to oil,so whay not try??Thats how you learn....

maybe the 0.1 will remove more bacteria and nastys chemicals ect,and maybe the other filters we use remove more carbon.

But what ever,its made the oil better in cold conditions,much clearer

as for going to 0.5 we noticed that was still good in freezer tests,but better preformane when driving,I would say your find it hard to beat 20,1,0.5 on that.


At the moment i only pass through filters once,no real need to pass again,we did it just to see on the standard 20,1 filters and that helped quite a bit.



20, and one micon oil is fine for use,i have used this for years in the past with no probs at all. Cant see me ever dropping the 0.5 and 20,1,0.5 maybe how iam going to use it in the futur when 0.1 blocks up

Not sure i want to post to much on here about this,hope you dont mind but ive spend hours thashing out the pros and cons,Iam no way saying you need to go this mad or we have re invented the wheel but we have made progress all the same.

would prob be best to keep to topic of the fantastic for terrano,sorry my head hurts...cant go though everything we have done :thumbs

 

[kbekl]

It is 100% a 0.1 micron filter,costs about 70 quid at cost trade price! if i remember,so yes your right would not be worth it at diy level but i get full backing from company who makes them(prob same place you buy from) They wanted expensive filters testing on wvo and bio,we did the testing they provide the filters.

And it was not a pleated like i said it IS the membrane filter,I can prove thats what ive used if you really need me to i will have to have confirmation email of this from suppiler.

It was done as a progression from all the different filter set ups we have tried,starting at the basic 20,1 micron that most use then on to 20,1 0.5 ect ect ect

tried these sorts of set ups

20 spun,1melt,1melt, 0.5,spun
20 spun,1 spun,0.5 spun
20 spun 1 spun 0.5 spun 1 spun

20,spun ,1 melt,0.5,01
20 spun,1 ,spun,0.5,0.1
20 spun 1,spun,5 carbon duel media filter,0.5


The vegforum was where all the results are,its really heavy going as it got to something like 46 pages, of reading.

The problem was as it was a masive thread it was hard to read and get info from,got quite a few digs about it was a waste of time ect ect ect.but hey the guys who make the filters were only trying to see if any improvements can be made on the way it was done in the past.


Iam not saying you need to go as low as 0.1 at all,it was just for experement purpose anyway,we didnt know what it was going to do to oil,so whay not try??Thats how you learn....

maybe the 0.1 will remove more bacteria and nastys chemicals ect,and maybe the other filters we use remove more carbon.

But what ever,its made the oil better in cold conditions,much clearer

as for going to 0.5 we noticed that was still good in freezer tests,but better preformane when driving,I would say your find it hard to beat 20,1,0.5 on that.


At the moment i only pass through filters once,no real need to pass again,we did it just to see on the standard 20,1 filters and that helped quite a bit.



20, and one micon oil is fine for use,i have used this for years in the past with no probs at all. Cant see me ever dropping the 0.5 and 20,1,0.5 maybe how iam going to use it in the futur when 0.1 blocks up

Not sure i want to post to much on here about this,hope you dont mind but ive spend hours thashing out the pros and cons,Iam no way saying you need to go this mad or we have re invented the wheel but we have made progress all the same.

would prob be best to keep to topic of the fantastic for terrano,sorry my head hurts...cant go though everything we have done :thumbs

i wasnt saying you couldnt do but i was saying what is the point in it

see a reverse osmosis membrane is a bit more complicated that just a filter

the end product has been filtered down to 0.001 not 0.1

here is a pic of a ro membrane

and a little chart for you

look dont think i am digging at you as i am not i would be interested to see if a ro membrane can be used for oil as the last test we did was with a oil coated water tank and ti striped the oil content in the water

if you take my chart here into consideration then you will see that with your filter being a 0.1 it is more like using hma water which has gone through a carbon filter

 

[jezmondoveg]

ok mate,no worries..

We were going to go super low filters to remove cryptosperidium, we didnt know if this could cuase a bug in the fuel or not help with gel issues.

It was like the filter pic above but, from a different company(uk based).We were the 1st to try it on veg and bio in the uk..prob mosly down to cost i think!

The 1st 3 filters were to remove carbon black and bigger bits.

will check and get back to you on exact micron,but 0.001 does ring a bell,think maybe thats what it was and we have been calling it 0.1 all this time. think just cuz its easier to shorten to 0.1.

Iam really 99% sure that it was a ro filter
But will make sure ,will be HONEST with ya if iam wrong :thumbsjust we have tried so many i forget what we have done half the time!!

Fefo no carbon in the one we used,as we are trying to remove it.we tried one with carbon with on my wvo had a negitive result on the gel point in the cold tests.

rememebr it had a plastic mesh,and loads of layers ,different from the standard water ones we normally use(spun wound) which look like wool wrapped round and round on a roll.

 

[4wheel]

4wd

I have had various 4x4's from Land Cruiser,Hilux,Isuzu etc.Can't beat the Toyota except on price.So if you have lots of money ...! If not the Terrano is great.The last few weeks have been very slippery here in Ireland and the T2 never missed a trick.4wd was the order of the day when the roads were completely iced over and no problems at all when other lesser vehicles were going round and round.Today I was in 2wd and an ice remnant caught me on a corner.The back went out but it was easily brought back.I am a happy chappy,no complaints.:thumb2

 

[kbekl]

ok mate,no worries..

We were going to go super low filters to remove cryptosperidium, we didnt know if this could cuase a bug in the fuel or not help with gel issues.

It was like the filter pic above but, from a different company(uk based).We were the 1st to try it on veg and bio in the uk..prob mosly down to cost i think!

The 1st 3 filters were to remove carbon black and bigger bits.

will check and get back to you on exact micron,but 0.001 does ring a bell,think maybe thats what it was and we have been calling it 0.1 all this time. think just cuz its easier to shorten to 0.1.

Iam really 99% sure that it was a ro filter
But will make sure ,will be HONEST with ya if iam wrong :thumbsjust we have tried so many i forget what we have done half the time!!

Fefo no carbon in the one we used,as we are trying to remove it.we tried one with carbon with on my wvo had a negitive result on the gel point in the cold tests.

rememebr it had a plastic mesh,and loads of layers ,different from the standard water ones we normally use(spun wound) which look like wool wrapped round and round on a roll.

well if you want to go a bit purer could always try a di resin.

if we got a 0.02 ppm on a tds(total dissolved solids) meter out of the ro membrane we would have a 4th or 6th canister filled with di resin this would bring down the tds to 0.000 as long as the resin hadn't gone past its absorption/filtration rate now if the ro membrane was pushing out 0.20 on the meter the resin would remove this but wouldn't last as long

now for the engine to run i am not sure how low you want these tds figures, and as it isn't water is it able to reduced to just pure oil

have a read of this if you are interested

http://www.fiotec.com/leaflets.public/files/wastewater/Membrane Filtration of OWE-1.pdf

now this does sort of bode with what i was saying about oil not passing through the ro membrane in a water system

but if you was to utilize the waste product which would be oil and other mixes then it becomes a good way to remove the water in the oil

running the unit in a waste wanted cycle would be beneficial in the collection of waste veg oil

what sort or pressure you using to feed the membrane we had to have a pressure greater than 15psi with the average tap at around 30psi alot of people opted for a boost pump to run at 90psi

 

[jezmondoveg]

4wheel thanks mate..think its gona be t2..evryt ime we look at others we come back.
...............................................................................................
kbekl,there is no real need to go as low on tds as we have been just an experement,cant do any harm.svo is 10 micron

the prusure we pump through fiters is nothing like what your talking about,20ltrs in 5 mins at 0 0c at moment!! in the summer its quick.

what kind of stuff you working on bud sounds interesting?

Some do use dry resin towers for bio as it removes more chemicals,but not common place,like iam sure you think the same but a lot of diy bio is total crap,bio is only as good as the guy who makes it,some only goto 5 micron.

**i am the only one that manages to pump through that lot in cold weather,most guys use a cheap machine mart tam 105 and thay droped the (.1) way back,some even couldnt get through a 0.5**

some guys who were testing found by going lower it changed the way they were making the stuff,but that was in the summer,i must chase them up now!bit different now i reckon...



just waiting for a reply from supplier,should get a answer today on exaclty what we were on.


This is spec of my transfer pump

Piusi Part Number F0030401A
Voltage 230vAC 50Hz
Max Suction Lift 0 m
Max Flow 9 lpm
Outlet Pressure 25.0 Bar / 362 PSI
Max Viscosity 2000 Centistokes
Internal Bypass Yes
Adjustable Bypass Yes
Power Kw 0.75
RPM 1450
Max Liquid Temp 55°
Max Room Temp 40°
Ingress Protection IP55
Ports - Viscomat 1" BSP Female
Weight 12.5 kg


Thanks for info,:thumbs all good..

 

[jezmondoveg]

And this was results from sample sent of for testing

filtered waste oil to 0.1

Sample Date 15/06/2010
Sample # 1363538
Lab # 1363538
Analyst LEE BELL
Unit Usage - hrs
Oil Usage - hrs
Oil Added - gus
Wear 41
FW Idx - Idx 5
Contamination 30
Water K.Fish - ppm 735.0
ISO >2 - n/a 21
ISO >5 - n/a 17
ISO >15 - n/a 13
Cnts >2 - pml 10,588
Cnts >5 - pml 1,040
Cnts >15 - pml 61
Cnts >25 - pml 8
Cnts >30 - pml 4
Cnts >50 - pml 3
Cnts >75 - pml 2.0
Cnts >100 - pml 1.0

 

[kbekl]

this is what the ro was used for

basicly if the water was less than perfect then certain things like corals etc would die

when you are in the marine hobby you turn into a mini biochemist lol

you need to be hot on a few things from phosphates to nitrates to salinity to ammonia silicates etc etc it gives you a headache when you first start lol

the pumps we used
24 VDC / 29 VDC / 36 VDC / 48 VDC
maximum Electric Current : 0.60A to 2A
Outlet Water Pressure : 80PSI to 200 PSI
producing about 400 gallons a day max

 

[jezmondoveg]

wow thats amazing!!.........and what a pump!!

I had a chat with the supplier today,he confirmed that your right it WAS a 0.1but it IS a ro membrane filter as i thought it was.,

I think its used in the food/chemical industry ,The membrane filter has the layers like the one you put on here ,Yes you can go smaller like you do but 0.1 is about as fine as we can go on cold oil.unless heating oil that is.

Its a totally different filter from the swimming pool type ones seen everywhere (water ones),i was told you cant go any lower than 0.5 with those water filters we use 10 inch housings for oil.

He said he is happy to contact you on filter info about the ones he can supply(1000`s of different ones),pm me your email and will pass on your details.he does not supply fish filers but you guys maybe able bounce ideas off each other if anything else.

He said the ideas on using a ro filter was to remove salts,chemicals and bacteria(cryptosperidium) from the oil.

He is a filter supplier not just working with bio fuel but also on many other applications,sorry but you will know more than me on all this,its all beyond my technical knowege on filters so wont try and swing it.

Interesting stuff all the same and thanks for your input


Ive not put any company details on here as i dont want it to seem like iam pushing any filter company on you guys,wanted to just keep it to dicussion rather than spam forum with ads.


Thanks again jez

 

[kbekl]

doubt he would be able to beat one of my suppliers
here is a 100 gallon a day ro membrane £35.76 + free shipping

http://www.vyair.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=81

no worries i only know a little bit about it all tbh it is a steep learning curve

it will be the uf membrane it is call a ro membrane i will see if i can fine a similar one

 

[kbekl]

http://www.kochmembrane.com/prod_spiral.html

it will be the koch membrane filters down to 0.1 and lower

 

[jezmondoveg]

we use 10 inc clear housings a bit like this and the filter sits inside that,tbh i can really remember what the 0.1 looks like i was so keen to try it just fitted it,remember it had a plastic mesh round it .white plastc gause type of thing.


btw dont buy these from ebay..just as eaisr to link that tank photo bucket it...

a guy on the forum just put up he has notiecd that the oil is free running oil going to 0.5 in cold temps,he used to goto 1 and was thicker than what he is on now..does really seem to help..

 

[jezmondoveg]

They dont look like either of those ones..dam i wish i took a pic now..

will try and find more info on them ..