Hydraulic whinch

[Koops]

Hi mates,
has anyone of you experience installing a hydraulic whinch on a Terrano? Like for instance a Mile Marker whinch - it should be possible to power it with the hydraulic steering unit of the car?

 

[solarman216]

I doubt the steering pump will deliver enough power and oil cooling would need to be addressed, but more than that the single belt would not be up to it, having said all that it would depend on the power of the winch, Rick

 

[Barrbeast]

I'd say better to get a simple belt driven hydraulic pump and fit that with it's own supply of oil :nenau

 

[Koops]

Steering pump power

I doubt the steering pump will deliver enough power and oil cooling would need to be addressed, but more than that the single belt would not be up to it, having said all that it would depend on the power of the winch, Rick

Mile Marker (winch manufacturer) says: "...The system needs to supply 1500 PSI at 3.5 GPM. Most full size vehicles meet this requirement without issue. We make a 2 speed 9,000 lb winch that runs on lower pressure and flow for smaller vehicle like Toyota trucks and jeeps...."

Now one of my questions is: what do we know about Terrano's steering pump power? Does it meet these mentioned requirements? Remaining questions then are what Rick mentioned about the belt strength and oil cooling...

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Mile Marker (winch manufacturer) says: "...The system needs to supply 1500 PSI at 3.5 GPM. Most full size vehicles meet this requirement without issue. We make a 2 speed 9,000 lb winch that runs on lower pressure and flow for smaller vehicle like Toyota trucks and jeeps...."

Now one of my questions is: what do we know about Terrano's steering pump power? Does it meet these mentioned requirements? Remaining questions then are what Rick mentioned about the belt strength and oil cooling...

According to the manual...

CAUTION: Do not hold the steering wheel in a locked position for more than 15 seconds.
Oil pump maximum standard pressure:
TD27Ti engine 8,800 - 9,200 kPa (88 - 92 bar, 89 - 93 kg/cm2, 1,276 - 1,334 psi)
ZD30DTi engine 9,800 - 10,500 kPa (98.0 - 105.0 bar, 99.96 - 107.10 kg/cm2, 1,421 - 1,523 psi)

 

[makeitfit]

I find the pump at odds with big tyres on. That is when at low revs it will stall the belt. I've fitted new belt and have the correct tension in the system, new fluid and the oil cooler pipe is it's original length. So to consider asking it to run at full tilt for a winching mission doesn't sound good to me.
That said the 3.0 litre pump is quite a lot better by the looks ?? I might have a mod coming on :augie
How much does this hydraulic pump cost and weigh ?

 

[solarman216]

I'd say better to get a simple belt driven hydraulic pump and fit that with it's own supply of oil :nenau

Exactly as you cannot do power steering as well as winch, but pehaps you were looking at mounting a second pump anyway in which case even the 3 pump is marginal on pressure and do not have figures for flow rate, Rick

 

[Barrbeast]

I find the pump at odds with big tyres on. That is when at low revs it will stall the belt. I've fitted new belt and have the correct tension in the system, new fluid and the oil cooler pipe is it's original length. So to consider asking it to run at full tilt for a winching mission doesn't sound good to me.
That said the 3.0 litre pump is quite a lot better by the looks ?? I might have a mod coming on :augie
How much does this hydraulic pump cost and weigh ?

Pete, I'd suggest just sourcing a basic secondhand tractor or digger pump. :nenau I've got one sitting in the tractor shed off an old JCB backhoe, really basic belt driven affair and not very large but obviously capable of some power if it drove the rams on the JCB.

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Exactly as you cannot do power steering as well as winch, but pehaps you were looking at mounting a second pump anyway in which case even the 3 pump is marginal on pressure and do not have figures for flow rate, Rick

I guess this is a silly question, but why can't you do both?

Surely once you have 1500PSI, it is at that pressure in the whole system, and if you are using the winch, you are probably not using the power steering.

 

[rustic]

Personally I wouldn't consider the steering pump to control a winch, when it fails, you loose power steering.

I'm not sure a power steering pump will give you the flow rate and maintain the pressure anyway, so a second pump with some form of cooler might be the answer.
However, it would be a fair cooler to stand the high pressure, so might need a heat exchanger first.

I must admit, I was quite surprised how much pressure power steering pumps provide, must be taking a fair bit of power off the engine when in use.

I guess there are a few power steering pumps around to test it out, but personally I would "steer" away from using the original pump.

Rustic

 

[Fez_uk]

Personally I wouldn't consider the steering pump to control a winch, when it fails, you loose power steering.

I dont think he plans on running the winch and steering off the same pump

 

[rustic]

I dont think he plans on running the winch and steering off the same pump

According to his post, it looks like he does.
Quote " ... it should be possible to power it with the hydraulic steering unit of the car?"

 

[makeitfit]

Steering is very often under a good deal of load when winching. Seldom get the luxury of winching out in a straight line :augie

 

[solarman216]

Anything that could compromise steering when on public roads is a big NO NO, end of story, just imagine 70 down the motorway and winch kicks in for whatever reason (chaffed wire, stuck valve whatever) and powere steering becomes an on/off affair, sorry no way, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Just to play Devils Advocate, I thought most power steering on modern cars reduced its effect at speed.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[don simon]

Anything that could compromise steering when on public roads is a big NO NO, end of story, just imagine 70 down the motorway and winch kicks in for whatever reason (chaffed wire, stuck valve whatever) and powere steering becomes an on/off affair, sorry no way, Rick

I wouldn't for the simplicity one pump/valve/gasket goes and you've lost two elements. And at least one of those is quite important.

 

[solarman216]

Just to play Devils Advocate, I thought most power steering on modern cars reduced its effect at speed.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

There is no connection tween road speed and steering pump pressure or flow rate, it is solely on very little power is needed on virtually straight ahead possition, but just imagine as said before winch decides to take power , now you gently correct on a shallow bend only to find it does not respond as normal as winch is sapping pressure so you give it a little more on the wheel only for that moment the winch cuts its power draw, the results do not bare thinking about, quite apart from the fact it would be an instant MOT fail and my guess "not to be driven away", do not fool with steering it is not worth it, Rick

 

[Koops]

Wow, many arguments against using the steering pump for a hydraulic winch - and apparently the steering pump doesn't even provide enough pressure. Installing a second oil pump just for the winch does not sound so easy to me either so maybe abort the hydraulic winch than...

 

[solarman216]

No not really, if you have a UK standard 3 belt crank pully and do not have or use AC then you can mount a pump where the AC compressor would go, simples., Rick

 

[makeitfit]

How much is this Winch? You can get a perfectly good electric one at say 12000 lb for 200 quid delivered