Handbrake on older T2's

[Lazy-Ferret]

How do you all find the effectiveness of the handbrake on your T2's? My 1999 one is terrible, where as Suz's 2001, is very good. I notice she has larger drums than mine.

Ever since I have had my car, the handbrake has always left a lot to be desired, to the extent that on a steep hill it will not actually hold the car, yet every MOT, it passes without any comment.

I have over the years, replaced the shoes, cylinders, and checked everything is working properly. I have done the full kit and caboodle on adjusting it over the years as well. If I adjust it, so it only takes 8 clicks to pull it on, it is over adjusted, and the brakes bind when released, it normally takes about 11 clicks to pull it on, and if I am on a hill, I have to yank it really hard to get an extra click.

The only thing I have never changed is the actual drums, could these be the issue? They look fine, no scores, and no lip either, and as far as I can see/tell, they have never been ground back.

What are your opinions?

the car stops fine, but the handbrake just does not

 

[solarman216]

The later T2's auto adjusters work, whereas the earlier ones do not, the Mrs motor has a good HB which is of the earlier type, the secret is to grind off the rust/wear lip on the drum so it can be adjusted up tight and still get the drum on, the other point is the tell tail plunger on the rear of the back plate should be touching the lever on the shoes in the off position, if not then back the adjuster under the HB lever off till they do, correctly adjusted two/three clicks on the HB should be full on, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

The later T2's auto adjusters work, whereas the earlier ones do not, the Mrs motor has a good HB which is of the earlier type, the secret is to grind off the rust/wear lip on the drum so it can be adjusted up tight and still get the drum on, the other point is the tell tail plunger on the rear of the back plate should be touching the lever on the shoes in the off position, if not then back the adjuster under the HB lever off till they do, correctly adjusted two/three clicks on the HB should be full on, Rick

Unfortunately, the "tell tail" button is missing on mine.

There is no lip on the drum, I can, and do, slide the hub on and off until it just starts to bind, then back it off two clicks.

 

[solarman216]

No tell tale? very odd is there a hole where the button should be? another way of adjusting is to drill a 10mm hole in the drum and adjust with the drum on, but if you have no tell tale then are you sure the levers are as far back as possible? it makes a big difference, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

No tell tale? very odd is there a hole where the button should be? another way of adjusting is to drill a 10mm hole in the drum and adjust with the drum on, but if you have no tell tale then are you sure the levers are as far back as possible? it makes a big difference, Rick

The black plastic outer bits are there for it. but the little black button inner part is missing.

Not sure about the levers being right back, I must admit I assumed they would go right back by themselves when I backed the handbrake adjuster right off.

I guess I will have to take it all apart again to check them.

 

[makeitfit]

Mine doesn't have a tell tail thingy either but I've got no lip so tight fit rules :thumb2

 

[solarman216]

The black plastic outer bits are there for it. but the little black button inner part is missing.

Not sure about the levers being right back, I must admit I assumed they would go right back by themselves when I backed the handbrake adjuster right off.

I guess I will have to take it all apart again to check them.

The black button protruding outside is all there is, it is like a top hat and the rim is all there is on the inside and it is important that with the brake off that the lever touches the button if it does not you have lost a crucial part of the leverage, Rick

 

[terranosaurusdoug]

Does anyone have a picture of this tell tale thingy?

I've just done the rear shoe's on mine, not sure if I gave the bigfer or smaller ones, manufactured in '99, reg in 2000. I just followed the guide on here for the handbrake adjuster under the centre console and the shoes were easy really, twiddled the auto adjuster till tge shoes stopped the drum sliding on, backed it off a bit and fitted drum and wheel. Adjusted under the console and now I have a good handbrake with a low lever, won't do handbrake turns on tarmac but definitely holds on hills no problems at all :thumb2

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Cheers Guys, looks like mine is not right then... I will have to take them apart, and see if the levers are going right back.

 

[kitchenman]

my handbrake is the same, passes MOT but will not hold on hills
Is there a workshop on this?
Where is it in the manual?
Not had it apart yet

 

[solarman216]

I did a complete write up on this ages ago but do not ask me find it, suffice to say if you can push the tell tale button in with the HB off then it needs sorting, a tip here is hit the button with a small blow from a hammer to free it of as it will be stuck giving a false reading, Rick

 

[solarman216]

Clive you can do this as well without taking apart, Rick

 

[Blocky10]

I found this :thumb2

http://www.nissan4x4ownersclub.com/downloads/workshop/wk21.pdf

 

[solarman216]

Very good but it is next to useless as it does not address the full brake shoe lever off issue, which could be caused by a stiff cable etc, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Clive you can do this as well without taking apart, Rick

I'll take a picture of mine at some point... I had a quick look between showers today, and on one side I just have a black plastic grommet with a open 4 or 5mm hole in the middle, then on the other side I have the same grommet, with a short length of what looks like the same plastic (about 6mm) sticking out of the hole.

You don't per chance have any spare "Top Hats" down there? You did wonder out loud in one of your past posts on Handbrake adjustment, if the top had acts as a back stop.

 

[solarman216]

Mmm not sure, if you have the tell tale then there should be about 10mm of about 6mm diam plastic showing, anything else is not standard, Rick

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Mmm not sure, if you have the tell tale then there should be about 10mm of about 6mm diam plastic showing, anything else is not standard, Rick

I'll compare Suz's and mine on Friday and get back to you...

 

[perelaar]

For what it is worth, the handbrake on my 1997 T2 is pretty much rubbish. It will hold the car on a slope though, if it is not too steep.

Changed the entire brake setup when I got the car a few years ago: drums, brake cylinders, shoes, cables, and brake pipes front to back...

 

[Lazy-Ferret]

Well, I decided to dive in head first today, and go back to first principles...

So first things first, I got under Suz's car to see what her handbrake tell tail was doing... I then went over to mine to double check where they were... I then went back to Suz's... Hmmm, her car does not have them... Great, so much for being able to do some comparisons..

So I look at mine, and I have the following...

O/S

N/S

I decide to take the whole lot apart, and check everything, so I start on the O/S as that at least looks like it has potential.

First I take the centre console out, so I can get at the handbrake, and back it off... Now, a couple of years ago, I was having trouble adjusting the handbrake, this was before I read Rick's information about the "tell tail", and I could not get the handbrake to adjust up enough, it was going off the end of the thread, so I had to fit a spacer to get it to pull up.

So I take the spacer off, and completely disconnect the handbrake.

Next, I get ready to remove the shoes, etc. but decided to have a good look around the hand brake area First. The first thing I notice it that the end of the handbrake mechanism is not anywhere near the other end of the tell tale. Secondly I notice that the spring that is on the end of the hand brake cable is not properly "Spring" shaped, and is right across the guide slot.

So I take it all apart, re-shape the spring, check the hand brake cable runs OK, and fit it all back together... That is where the fun starts.. Firstly, the handbrake cable spring keeps slipping across the guide every time you move the shoes putting the springs on... I eventually get it all back together, but have to use a screwdriver to push the handbrake spring into the correct place at the end... now the lever sits back against the tell tail... I then set to work adjusting the system..

This is what the Tell Tale looks like on the Brake side of the drum..

And this is how it looks on the outside when the brake mechanism is in the correct place.

So to the other side... firstly, the spring on the hand brake cable is the same as the other side.

This is what the Tell Tail looks like on that side..

I wonder what happened to that in the past...

So I use an 8mm allan bolt to make up a new tell tail...

It's not perfect, but it does the job for the purpose of setting it up..

I then reassemble and adjust every thing.

When I Go to set up the hand brake lever, I discover there is no need for the spacer any more, as the cable now only sticks through the fixing by just over the length of the nut... Result..

I then tighten the nut up, until I can just start to feel a bit of play in the tell tails, then back it off until they no longer press in at all.

Now, when the hand brake is off, the tell tails stick out the back of the drum and are impossible to push in, but with the hand brake on, they both slide in and out with out any resistance.

I took the car out for a drive, and the hand brake is a lot better... not as good as the Vitara or Volvo, but at least if I pull it on with the car doing about 20mph, it does stop.

Result... Thanks Rick.. next time you are scrapping a car, can you save me one of those Tell Tales.

 

[solarman216]

As said before the telltales are a misunderstood area of rear brake adjustment, glad you got it sorted Clive, Rick