Coolant leak

[kickboxer]

Got a problem with loosing coolant and need some help.
Last March I notice I lost a lot of collant and discovered it was a heater matrix failure, got this replaced at the local garage and everything was fine.
last month noticed that the coolant level was dropping again, garage said it was a failed heater matric connector which they replaced.
However I am still loosing cooland so have decided to try to determine and fix the problem myself.
As a process of eleimination test I turned the heater control to the cold position and run for a few days, checked the rad level and it had not dropped, then did the same with the heater on hot and when checking the level it had dropped.
Suggests to me that the leak is still in the heater matrix area, but then on thinking more I dont understand how this works as I thought the heater control simply moved an air flap and does not divert the coolant from flowing through the matrix, therfore I dont really understand why having the control on cold would stop the leak!

Anyone got any ideas????

its a 2002 3.0 sport model

 

[Banshee]

Got a problem with loosing coolant and need some help.
Last March I notice I lost a lot of collant and discovered it was a heater matrix failure, got this replaced at the local garage and everything was fine.
last month noticed that the coolant level was dropping again, garage said it was a failed heater matric connector which they replaced.
However I am still loosing cooland so have decided to try to determine and fix the problem myself.
As a process of eleimination test I turned the heater control to the cold position and run for a few days, checked the rad level and it had not dropped, then did the same with the heater on hot and when checking the level it had dropped.
Suggests to me that the leak is still in the heater matrix area, but then on thinking more I dont understand how this works as I thought the heater control simply moved an air flap and does not divert the coolant from flowing through the matrix, therfore I dont really understand why having the control on cold would stop the leak!

Anyone got any ideas????

its a 2002 3.0 sport model

First things first check your water pump as this was where mine was leaking from, then check all your pipes back up to your header tank, do you see any patches on the floor?

Do you hear any bubbling from the header tank when you have been on a long journey and you stop and turn the engine off?

 

[solarman216]

not absolutely sure about your model but the 2.7s certainly have a water control valve, there is a post on here of mine with a pic of exactly where it is, but and it is a big but, it only shuts one pipe so the heater matrix is still under the same pressure, just no flow, now this could of course mean that it only leaks when it gets hot, how sure are you that the garage actually changed the heater, it is one hell of a job as the whole dash has to come out, very labour intensive, or did they just put some rad weld in? whatever if it was done inside a year then warrenty comes to mind, Rick

 

[rustic]

It could of course be the control valve, when in one position, it leaks, when in the other, it doesn't.

A bit like home radiator valves, they are fine, then you make an adjustment they leak...:doh

If it is the interior heater, then there should be a wet patch:nenau

 

[solarman216]

It could of course be the control valve, when in one position, it leaks, when in the other, it doesn't.

A bit like home radiator valves, they are fine, then you make an adjustment they leak...:doh

If it is the interior heater, then there should be a wet patch:nenau

had not thought of that Rustic other than the fact on the 2.7s the valve is on the heater so inside the cab, so if it leaks it will show inside, or should, Rick

 

[kickboxer]

The water is not leaking from the engine bay as its all dry underneath, so can only be leaking internally.
The loss is from the rad, the header tank does not appear to be dropping but the rad looses about a cup of coolant every 100 miles, but only when heater control is on hot.
The garage have had it for about 3 weeks in total stipping it all down and that obviously is costsly, so going to strip il all out this weekend and try to run around with no dash etc to see if I can find the leak. Im hoping its just a loose connection, or maybe the control valve as suggested.

 

[Banshee]

The water is not leaking from the engine bay as its all dry underneath, so can only be leaking internally.
The loss is from the rad, the header tank does not appear to be dropping but the rad looses about a cup of coolant every 100 miles, but only when heater control is on hot.
The garage have had it for about 3 weeks in total stipping it all down and that obviously is costsly, so going to strip il all out this weekend and try to run around with no dash etc to see if I can find the leak. Im hoping its just a loose connection, or maybe the control valve as suggested.

In that case then mate I think Rustic has cracked thisone first again :thumb2

 

[rustic]

In that case then mate I think Rustic has cracked thisone first again :thumb2

I hope so, lol.
Has anyone got a picture of the control valve, and where it is on the heater?
Is it something that can be got at, say if you remove one of the front seats, and lay on your back to get to it.
Maybe trim some of the plastic to get to the valve.
Can the valve be disconnected, and are there any access to say the seal around the control lever.
I bet a gynaecologist could do it:augie

Removing the dash is a big task, there is a down load on how to do that.
So take as many pictures as you go, so you can remember where each bit goes...

Talking of lots of bits...
Yesterday I had the Picasso driver's door apart, after the pre Christmas attack.
What a huge number of plastic bits had to come off, they were all tight fits too.
Even the lock barrel had been crushed from the outside, thus jamming the lock.
On inspection, I was able to pull out the dents on the lock, so I managed to get that working, and I bent back the door into shape, and the supporting plate behind, and reinforced that from a future similar attack.
Some filler , sorry lots of Chemical Metal around the lock and puncture hole and it is now looking ok, so I will buy one of those stick on plastic key scratch protectors, off ebay, like suggested.
I would then hope it will be an invisible repair.:thumb2
Just need to get a replacement sat Nav, that must have a remote aerial connection, because of the coated windscreen.
Total repair cost for the door and lock...just the key scratch pads, £3.99 and a bit of chemical metal... plus a few hours to sort it.
Well I saved the insurance excess and the on going no claims losses...
At least I am able to do these jobs in my garage, with a heater on, I'm too old to be crawling under cars these days in the cold and damp.:doh

best regards,

Rustic

 

[kickboxer]

I have not found any pictures but im sure once I get all the dash out then it will be quite clear where it is.
I am preparing myself for a big job to get everything out and hoping I dont break too many of those plastic clips when taking it all apart, Terrano96 has a video on YouTube which makes removal of the dash look quite simple but i know it will be much harder.
Only concern I have is that once i have everything out im not sure how obvious it will be where the leak is coming from, thats why im hoping I will be bale to drive around a bit with the dash all out so I can see where the drips are.

 

[rustic]

Is the inside carpet wet then ? if so get sheets of kitchen roll to see where it is dripping from.

 

[kickboxer]

the carpet is damp but its not leaking that much to really see where is coming from, so thats why i have decided to do a full strip down to get it sorted.

 

[solarman216]

do not think you will be driving it around with no dash, too many wires will be disconnected, any way this is a pic of the heater from the engine side, the control valve is on the bottom right pipe and will be against the bulk head in the car, Rick

 

[kickboxer]

Thanks for the picture, looks like it will be difficult to try and determine wher the leak is will all those connections. may have to try some sort of pressure test one I have it all stripped out

 

[rustic]

do not think you will be driving it around with no dash, too many wires will be disconnected, any way this is a pic of the heater from the engine side, the control valve is on the bottom right pipe and will be against the bulk head in the car, Rick

Thanks Rick, that has increased my knowledge of the Matrix, I hadn't realised there were so many connections.

The problem with those hoses, with those type of hose clamps, is over time, the hose shrinks around the clip, and will then start to leak.
Just a couple of turns on the hose clips could stop a leaky pipe.

A few years back, my rad hose started to weep, half a turn on the clamp... sorted, and I am still on the originals.

That's all it might be...:nenau

Most manufacturers now use spring type clips, which continue to provide compression as the hose shrinks.

 

[kickboxer]

Does sound like it is probably a loose clip, most likely did not get put back on properly last time it was in the garage.
will buy some PTFE tape and some more clips to see what I can get sorted to seal it all back up.

 

[kickboxer]

coolant leak

Well spent the weekend striping out the dash to try and find my coolant leak, no obvious signs of leaking from any of the connections, did a pressure test with the hose on the matrix system and still no leaks. Anyway made sure all hose connections were tight and put all the dash back in (not quite as easy as tking it out, and got a few screws left over!) 3 days in and its not using any water so hoping that it is fixed.
All i need to do now is get rid of the 3 inches of coolant in the passenger foot well !

 

[bry]

Bloody hell what a kerfufflle..

 

[Banshee]

Well spent the weekend striping out the dash to try and find my coolant leak, no obvious signs of leaking from any of the connections, did a pressure test with the hose on the matrix system and still no leaks. Anyway made sure all hose connections were tight and put all the dash back in (not quite as easy as tking it out, and got a few screws left over!) 3 days in and its not using any water so hoping that it is fixed.
All i need to do now is get rid of the 3 inches of coolant in the passenger foot well !
View attachment 4788

I admire your effort mate, let's just hope it doesn't start using water again when you've got it all back together again :doh

 

[kickboxer]

its all back together now and so far so good. the garage took 3 weeks to do what i did in 1 day and they did not stop the leak.
So hoping its cured now.

 

[Banshee]

its all back together now and so far so good. the garage took 3 weeks to do what i did in 1 day and they did not stop the leak.
So hoping its cured now.

Fingers and toes crossed for you mate :thumbs