2.4 fuel filters

[Muckypup]

Still got the damned intermittent power on my bloody 2.4i. Bang your foot down it backs of the power, rev it slowly and its fine... till you hit a hill then it goes flat so you give it a little gas and it backs off the power, or runs very lumpy.
Changed so far...

fuel pipes (went porous)
fuel filter
air filter
plugs
leads
dizzy cap
rotor arm
ignition switch
new coil

Is there more than one filter in the fuel system?
Could shite in the tank cause the fuel pump to not run properly?
Has anyone experienced this before?

Really getting miffed now, seems to be unfixable but i've ploughed so much money into it i cant give up. I did originally appear to be electrical but now im wondering if its struggling to get fuel through. Funny thing is tho whilst its like it is its eating fuel! :doh

Need expert advise please peeps! :thumbs

 

[Terranosaurus]

Have you checked the ignition timing? Mine seemed to run a lot better with more advance than book figures.

 

[danielj]

Or could it be struggling to get air, either not getting enough air in to burn or enough air out fast enough to exhaust. I had a similar problem on hills and it would go flat. Would have to change down to second or first gear to get up a hill that could normally be done in fourth or third. And sometimes it would only keep going by putting it down into first and letting it crawl until the hill eased off a bit and it would take the accellerator. Ended up getting the fuel pump reconditioned and new mass air flow meter (but not entirely certain the fuel pump was the main problem as it certainly seemed that it just couldn't get enough air). Result was its a totally different machine now--eats hills once I can get a little run at them.

 

[Terranosaurus]

Was going to move on to MAF - not sure how easy to clean they are on the petrol - never did mine - but worth a look for sure.

 

[Muckypup]

I was beginning to think air mass meter... but after the £300 bill for the last one I had fixed was kinda hoping it wouldnt be that :doh
It does almost feel like its getting a gulp of air when it "lumps" if you get me. You get to the hill and all is ok, soon as the engine feels the weight of the car it runs lumpy. Change down and it will rev up but lumpy as hell and the power is intermittent. Stay in the same gear and all goes flat...
so..
where would I find the air meter? How do I clean it? Can i buy one myself and fit it? Or is it off to the diagnostics centre for another £300 bill?

 

[lacroupade]

Personally I'd still be looking at the obvious electrical stuff because all the symptoms would be the same, heavy current draw would cause circuit to break down, or arc....could be dicky/dirty HT leads, dicky plug(s), distributor ...I once had a bike with a knackered resistor or choke (can't remember which) in the dizzy that caused exactly those symptoms...

As a long shot, why not get someone to rev it hard while you look under the bonnet - in the dark - in case there are any sparks..?

 

[Muckypup]

Personally I'd still be looking at the obvious electrical stuff because all the symptoms would be the same, heavy current draw would cause circuit to break down, or arc....could be dicky/dirty HT leads, dicky plug(s), distributor ...I once had a bike with a knackered resistor or choke (can't remember which) in the dizzy that caused exactly those symptoms...

As a long shot, why not get someone to rev it hard while you look under the bonnet - in the dark - in case there are any sparks..?

You might be onto something here... CHOKE!!!
It seems to run ok-ish on choke but as soon as the engine has done any work the problem becomes really apparent. Pretty much fine on cold start up, warm engine problem apparent

 

[Muckypup]

Personally I'd still be looking at the obvious electrical stuff because all the symptoms would be the same, heavy current draw would cause circuit to break down, or arc....could be dicky/dirty HT leads, dicky plug(s), distributor ...I once had a bike with a knackered resistor or choke (can't remember which) in the dizzy that caused exactly those symptoms...

As a long shot, why not get someone to rev it hard while you look under the bonnet - in the dark - in case there are any sparks..?

Would I see any sparks, bearing in mind i've changed ALL the leads, cap, rotor and plugs?

 

[elty001]

have you checked the egr valve:nenau
mine was stuck so on cold start/choke it seemed fine but when engine warmed up it was like driving with the brakes on.
had to keep the revs up or it would stall.
try blocking off the pipe to it(clamped mine with mole grips)

 

[Muckypup]

Gotta be worth a try...
Thing is though its not like sticking the brakes on, the only way to describe it is running LUMPY???
Gonna sound bad here but I have to drive a long 60mph steep hill 3 or 4 times a day, which normally it would power up in 5th at 60 mph no probs. Hit the start of the hill in fourth and normally you can accellerate and go to 5th to cruise. Now hit the hill in 4th and it goes flat, change down to third and it stays at 40mph and behaves like a stoned kangaroo!
Abuse it, bang your foot to the floor and dip the clutch and the problem will sort of clear and it will half-willed rev to the top.
This is not at all apparent on initial start up, the hill is about 2 miles down the road from my house. I can start it up cold and it goes like a GTI, mile or so down the road hit the hill and its stoned kangaroo time...

Something is being restricted somewhere...
Something is not being allowed to flow properly, either too much/not enough fuel or too much/not enough air. Cant figure it out.

This is why i wondered if my tank could be full of shite, at night it settles, halfway down the road its stirred up and not allowing the fuel into the pump properly??? God knows I just need to sort it :doh

 

[Terranosaurus]

Its more likely the ECU is deliberately restricting fuel flow from a faulty sensor signal.

First port of call try cleaning the MAF - pg 146 HERE shows you where it is. Take it out and give it a good spray wit brake cleaner or electrical contact cleaner, some people use WD40 but I think that leaves them oily/sticky for dirt to get collect on later.

The manual linked to above give ways of diagnosing various sensors give a few of those a try too.

 

[elty001]

Gotta be worth a try...
Thing is though its not like sticking the brakes on, the only way to describe it is running LUMPY???
Gonna sound bad here but I have to drive a long 60mph steep hill 3 or 4 times a day, which normally it would power up in 5th at 60 mph no probs. Hit the start of the hill in fourth and normally you can accellerate and go to 5th to cruise. Now hit the hill in 4th and it goes flat, change down to third and it stays at 40mph and behaves like a stoned kangaroo!
Abuse it, bang your foot to the floor and dip the clutch and the problem will sort of clear and it will half-willed rev to the top.
This is not at all apparent on initial start up, the hill is about 2 miles down the road from my house. I can start it up cold and it goes like a GTI, mile or so down the road hit the hill and its stoned kangaroo time...

Something is being restricted somewhere...
Something is not being allowed to flow properly, either too much/not enough fuel or too much/not enough air. Cant figure it out.

This is why i wondered if my tank could be full of shite, at night it settles, halfway down the road its stirred up and not allowing the fuel into the pump properly??? God knows I just need to sort it :doh

when i said driving with the brakes on i just mean't there was no power.
it was running really lumpy and just had no power and what you described sounds very simular to what happend to mine.

 

[Muckypup]

when i said driving with the brakes on i just mean't there was no power.
it was running really lumpy and just had no power and what you described sounds very simular to what happend to mine.

Sounds like we may have the same fault then
Im itching to solve this one! 3 months of searching and I gotta be close lol! I thjink I will have a real satisfied feeling when this is fixed eventually...

 

[Muckypup]

Sounds like we may have the same fault then
Im itching to solve this one! 3 months of searching and I gotta be close lol! I thjink I will have a real satisfied feeling when this is fixed eventually...

PS - Wheres the EGR valve? and what does it look like :doh

 

[lacroupade]

PS - Wheres the EGR valve? and what does it look like :doh

Theres a diagram in the manual - have you got the link?

 

[Muckypup]

Theres a diagram in the manual - have you got the link?

I certainly have and have printed the relevant pages. Next jobs on agenda... :thumb2

 

[elty001]

easiest way to find the egr valve is follow the steel pipe that comes off the manifold.mine is on the passenger side inner wing but some are tucked away behind the the engine on the drivers side.
looks like a mushroom shaped type thingy.
i did a bodge block off job with a pair of mole grips clamping the rubber pipe shut to see if it made a difference and bingo:thumb2ran like a treat with no power loss.
took it off and soaked it in wd40 overnight then gave it a poke and a prod and it's been ok since(touch wood)

 

[Muckypup]

Had a look last night and as you said its on the passenger inner wing. I unscrewed the little mushroom shaped piece at the top and gave that a clean with brake cleaner. To be honest it did not appear that bad to me and was not siezed or stuck, but after a clean I re-fit it and there appeared to be a little difference.
Do I need to remove, strip and clean the whole EGR block? (the big bit which the mushroom screws into) Cant you tell im a pro with my terminology :augie

 

[lacroupade]

Had a look last night and as you said its on the passenger inner wing. I unscrewed the little mushroom shaped piece at the top and gave that a clean with brake cleaner. To be honest it did not appear that bad to me and was not siezed or stuck, but after a clean I re-fit it and there appeared to be a little difference.
Do I need to remove, strip and clean the whole EGR block? (the big bit which the mushroom screws into) Cant you tell im a pro with my terminology :augie

Assuming it WAS the EGR you were playing with, the objective is to block the pipes off to it rather than clean it, i.e. take it out of circuit.

It stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation and simply pumps back exhaust gases into the inlet manifold as an anti-pollution measure, but as you can imagine, thats not the best quality air now is it!

The download explains how to do it :thumbs

 

[Muckypup]

So blank it off from the pipe which connects from the exhaust???
Can try that at lunch time and give it a whirl up the big hill near work, that will soon tell me :thumbs